Religion in politics/schools

[Cold Fusion38]

Ring don't you kind it disturbing that so many(all be it a small minority)of Christians have NO PROBLEM WHAT-SO-EVER with putting religious monuments on PUBLIC property?

Having a nativity scene, or a menorah, or whatever else is not the government pushing any specific religion on anyone... it is done to say to the constituents that they and their beliefs, especially when it is a widely celebrated holiday among those in the community, are respected or acknowledged

Things such as the 10 commandment statues/inscriptions (most of which have been there for well over a century) show that government, in part, recognizes and upholds the concepts in this forefather of modern law...

Stop getting your liberal panties in a wad over 'religious' things in the public eye...

It is separation of church and state... as in no government imposed religion... not that any and all references to anything religious be banned in the public eye

So you don't see the monuments of ONE religion as a sanction of that ONE religion? If they want to put up monuments that cover EVERY RELIGION IN THE WORLD then it would not be supporting ONE religion over ALL others.

 

[Ringel05]

If this thread is offensive to people that was NOT my point. I REALLY do want to know how people can justify RELIGION in the PUBLIC square.

Part of the issue is you keep referring to the "public square". The public square is not necessarily a physica, public owned space, it is the all encompassing forum for the exchange of ideas. Why do you want to exclude those you disagree with form participating?

 

[DiamondDave]

Ring don't you kind it disturbing that so many(all be it a small minority)of Christians have NO PROBLEM WHAT-SO-EVER with putting religious monuments on PUBLIC property?

Having a nativity scene, or a menorah, or whatever else is not the government pushing any specific religion on anyone... it is done to say to the constituents that they and their beliefs, especially when it is a widely celebrated holiday among those in the community, are respected or acknowledged

Things such as the 10 commandment statues/inscriptions (most of which have been there for well over a century) show that government, in part, recognizes and upholds the concepts in this forefather of modern law...

Stop getting your liberal panties in a wad over 'religious' things in the public eye...

It is separation of church and state... as in no government imposed religion... not that any and all references to anything religious be banned in the public eye

So you don't see the monuments of ONE religion as a sanction of that ONE religion? If they want to put up monuments that cover EVERY RELIGION IN THE WORLD then it would not be supporting ONE religion over ALL others.

No libbie.. it is not the forcing of any one religion over another on to any single citizen of this country

But nice try

Paying homage or respect is not in violation of the separation of church and state....

 

[Cold Fusion38]

The SAME people want to put the BIBLE in PUBLIC SCHOOL and you don't see that as an ENDORSMENT of Christianity over ALL OTHER RELIGIONS?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

If this thread is offensive to people that was NOT my point. I REALLY do want to know how people can justify RELIGION in the PUBLIC square.

Part of the issue is you keep referring to the "public square". The public square is not necessarily a physica, public owned space, it is the all encompassing forum for the exchange of ideas. Why do you want to exclude those you disagree with form participating?

OH NO NO NO YOU DON'T that is NOT what I am reffeing to. I AM IN FACT reffering to PUBLIC PLACES as in parks, Court Houses, and Gov't buildings. Edit(schools)

 

[del]

If this thread is offensive to people that was NOT my point. I REALLY do want to know how people can justify RELIGION in the PUBLIC square.

Part of the issue is you keep referring to the "public square". The public square is not necessarily a physica, public owned space, it is the all encompassing forum for the exchange of ideas. Why do you want to exclude those you disagree with form participating?

OH NO NO NO YOU DON'T that is NOT what I am reffeing to. I AM IN FACT reffering to PUBLIC PLACES as in parks, Court Houses, and Gov't buildings.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So you guys TRUELY don't see the OBJECTIVE of Christian extremists that CHRISTIANITY WOULD BE the only church accepted by the state?

 

[del]

So you guys TRUELY don't see the OBJECTIVE of Christian extremists that CHRISTIANITY WOULD BE the only church accepted by the state?

no, i truly don't care because they've got no chance.

lighten up, francis.

 

[DiamondDave]

The SAME people want to put the BIBLE in PUBLIC SCHOOL and you don't see that as an ENDORSMENT of Christianity over ALL OTHER RELIGIONS?

Nobody is trying to force biblical teachings.. or force the bible onto anyone in public school... what NORMALLY is being asked is that different beliefs and theories be respected, such as not bashing children for having religious beliefs of intelligent design or whatever else... and since we have THEORIES of evolution, m-theory, etc and not absolute proofs of any of these theories, it is acceptable not to inherently bash opposing theories or beliefs

Now if the bible is looked at as a piece of historic literature, it is no different that having education on that than it is from having teachings on mythology, the old writings of communist leaders, the writings of Shakespeare, etc

And if people want a christian education, there are private schools and home schooling options that people have

 

[DiamondDave]

What is this guy?? Some 16 year old ranter on his 5th can of red bull??

 

[del]

What is this guy?? Some 16 year old ranter on his 5th can of red bull??

i hate summer reruns, don't you?

 

[Ringel05]

Ring don't you kind it disturbing that so many(all be it a small minority)of Christians have NO PROBLEM WHAT-SO-EVER with putting religious monuments on PUBLIC property?

Having a nativity scene, or a menorah, or whatever else is not the government pushing any specific religion on anyone... it is done to say to the constituents that they and their beliefs, especially when it is a widely celebrated holiday among those in the community, are respected or acknowledged

Things such as the 10 commandment statues/inscriptions (most of which have been there for well over a century) show that government, in part, recognizes and upholds the concepts in this forefather of modern law...

Stop getting your liberal panties in a wad over 'religious' things in the public eye...

It is separation of church and state... as in no government imposed religion... not that any and all references to anything religious be banned in the public eye

So you don't see the monuments of ONE religion as a sanction of that ONE religion? If they want to put up monuments that cover EVERY RELIGION IN THE WORLD then it would not be supporting ONE religion over ALL others.

Nope. Simply because all the practitioners of different religions have the same right to petition to have their displays placed also.
What is funny is the vast majority of non-Christians in this country are amused and perplexed by the views of people such as yourself, i.e. they don't have a problem with it either.
It would seem that the only ones who have issues are rabid secularists.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So Dave are we going to have EVERY religious text as historic reference? I knida doubt it. How about the teachings of Confusus? How about the Torah? How about the Koran? If we give equal time to EVERY religious text I doubt we would have time for ANYTHING else. Now if it is a PURELY optional course and it gives fair time to EVERY religion then I am o.k. with that.

 

[Ringel05]

So you guys TRUELY don't see the OBJECTIVE of Christian extremists that CHRISTIANITY WOULD BE the only church accepted by the state?

no, i truly don't care because they've got no chance.

lighten up, francis.

I think I'll go with: ditto, on this one.

 

[DiamondDave]

So Dave are we going to have EVERY religious text as historic reference? I knida doubt it. How about the teachings of Confusus? How about the Torah? How about the Koran? If we give equal time to EVERY religious text I doubt we would have time for ANYTHING else. Now if it is a PURELY optional course and it gives fair time to EVERY religion then I am o.k. with that.

You don't have to give equal time to every other writing, just as you do not have to have Chaucer taught just because you teach Shakespeare....

And as stated, it is not the faith or religion that is being taught if the bible or whatever else is being taught as historic literature or as a history of ancient text....

And funny... We did always have classes on other mythos.. and I did not see anyone complaining when the Iliad and the Odyssey were used as literature in English class

By nice try... now go ween yourself off the monster energy drinks, go spank off to mommy's Sears catalog bra section, and get off your unstable soap box

 

[goldcatt]

Ring don't you kind it disturbing that so many(all be it a small minority)of Christians have NO PROBLEM WHAT-SO-EVER with putting religious monuments on PUBLIC property?

Having a nativity scene, or a menorah, or whatever else is not the government pushing any specific religion on anyone... it is done to say to the constituents that they and their beliefs, especially when it is a widely celebrated holiday among those in the community, are respected or acknowledged

Things such as the 10 commandment statues/inscriptions (most of which have been there for well over a century) show that government, in part, recognizes and upholds the concepts in this forefather of modern law...

Stop getting your liberal panties in a wad over 'religious' things in the public eye...

It is separation of church and state... as in no government imposed religion... not that any and all references to anything religious be banned in the public eye

So you don't see the monuments of ONE religion as a sanction of that ONE religion? If they want to put up monuments that cover EVERY RELIGION IN THE WORLD then it would not be supporting ONE religion over ALL others.

You've obviously never heard of one of my all-time personal SCOTUS favorites, the Plastic Reindeer test.

In brief, there's nothing wrong with religious symbols as part of a broader general display. For example, for the holidays a creche alongside a menorah and a display of secular images like Santa Claus or Rudolph (ergo, the Plastic Reindeer) isn't establishing religion. A display of the Ten Commandments in with other representations of legal foundations (representations of the Roman Senate or certain Greek gods, for example) isn't establishment. It's merely a nod to the origin of the holiday or the laws or whatever. It's when religion is pushed, especially to a captive audience, that you run into problems. Or when political figures or groups try to subvert religion for their own agendas, which IMO is far more troubling.

 

[Ringel05]

So Dave are we going to have EVERY religious text as historic reference? I knida doubt it. How about the teachings of Confusus? How about the Torah? How about the Koran? If we give equal time to EVERY religious text I doubt we would have time for ANYTHING else. Now if it is a PURELY optional course and it gives fair time to EVERY religion then I am o.k. with that.

What are the two primary schools of thought in this country?
Evolution and Creationism. Evolution is taught like it was proven fact, not as theory (or hypothesis as I see it - has everything to do with scientific empiricism). Creationism is the primary counterpoint so in my mind it's a compare and contrast issue.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

If recognition of the bad feelings that this thread has created I will remove it.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So Dave are we going to have EVERY religious text as historic reference? I knida doubt it. How about the teachings of Confusus? How about the Torah? How about the Koran? If we give equal time to EVERY religious text I doubt we would have time for ANYTHING else. Now if it is a PURELY optional course and it gives fair time to EVERY religion then I am o.k. with that.

You don't have to give equal time to every other writing, just as you do not have to have Chaucer taught just because you teach Shakespeare....

And as stated, it is not the faith or religion that is being taught if the bible or whatever else is being taught as historic literature or as a history of ancient text....

And funny... We did always have classes on other mythos.. and I did not see anyone complaining when the Iliad and the Odyssey were used as literature in English class

By nice try... now go ween yourself off the monster energy drinks, go spank off to mommy's Sears catalog bra section, and get off your unstable soap box

Wow you are quite the intelectual aren't you. Tell you what go fuck your dog you piece of shit douche bag. I think I will go to the store and get another Red Bull.

 

[Ringel05]

If recognition of the bad feelings that this thread has created I will remove it.

What bad feelings? I see logical discourse happening here, with no flaming (other than DiamondDave).
Rare for a tread such as this.