Reforming Islam

[Tilly]

you never read that one either nor do you have any level of appreciation for
find literature--------I have no doubt that you distil THE ODYSSEY down to a
"BAG OF WIND"

That book matters not a damn in this case and you are still fucked trying to prove that the Koran isn't just as The Prophet dictated.

there is no way to prove a negative-------the claim is NOT that the idiot book was written on dictation ----the CLAIM is that it was MAGICALLY and COMPLETELY ACCURATELY word for word memorized by a bunch of illiterates and not actually written until decades later-----actually more like 100 years later

"And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. ....."

Either prove that isn't so, as Sunni Man posted, or STFU?

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

 

[PaintMyHouse]

you never read that one either nor do you have any level of appreciation for
find literature--------I have no doubt that you distil THE ODYSSEY down to a
"BAG OF WIND"

That book matters not a damn in this case and you are still fucked trying to prove that the Koran isn't just as The Prophet dictated.

there is no way to prove a negative-------the claim is NOT that the idiot book was written on dictation ----the CLAIM is that it was MAGICALLY and COMPLETELY ACCURATELY word for word memorized by a bunch of illiterates and not actually written until decades later-----actually more like 100 years later

"And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. ....."

Either prove that isn't so, as Sunni Man posted, or STFU?

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

 

[Tilly]

you never read that one either nor do you have any level of appreciation for
find literature--------I have no doubt that you distil THE ODYSSEY down to a
"BAG OF WIND"

That book matters not a damn in this case and you are still fucked trying to prove that the Koran isn't just as The Prophet dictated.

there is no way to prove a negative-------the claim is NOT that the idiot book was written on dictation ----the CLAIM is that it was MAGICALLY and COMPLETELY ACCURATELY word for word memorized by a bunch of illiterates and not actually written until decades later-----actually more like 100 years later

"And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. ....."

Either prove that isn't so, as Sunni Man posted, or STFU?

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

 

[aris2chat]

and how many sects are there in islam and how many scholarly schools of each?
Even the quran was a work in progress with changes over 150 yr period

There may be different Islamic schools of thought. But none of them separate mosque and state.

And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. .....

And yet the Sana quran proves differently. That was like 40 yrs ago.
Even the hadiths speak of alterations in the reciting of the quran that were permitted by Mohammed during his time.
There are 20 differing version of the quran, a third of them are mentioned in the hadiths. Obviously there is not a single quran that is unchanged.
How do you not know these things? I've known most of this since I first began to study the quran as child, and I didn't have to but chose to ask and read. I want on to study most of the ancient and early religions of the world. I traveled so much it helped to understand the history and culture of all those place and people. My son picked up languages much easier than I ever did. He is up to eight or nine now. I hope he never stops learn more.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That book matters not a damn in this case and you are still fucked trying to prove that the Koran isn't just as The Prophet dictated.

there is no way to prove a negative-------the claim is NOT that the idiot book was written on dictation ----the CLAIM is that it was MAGICALLY and COMPLETELY ACCURATELY word for word memorized by a bunch of illiterates and not actually written until decades later-----actually more like 100 years later

"And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. ....."

Either prove that isn't so, as Sunni Man posted, or STFU?

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

 

[Tilly]

there is no way to prove a negative-------the claim is NOT that the idiot book was written on dictation ----the CLAIM is that it was MAGICALLY and COMPLETELY ACCURATELY word for word memorized by a bunch of illiterates and not actually written until decades later-----actually more like 100 years later

"And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. ....."

Either prove that isn't so, as Sunni Man posted, or STFU?

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

Yeah. You've more or less now said it will only work under perfect conditions. You can't operate in a vacuum, dreary. So, Like I said, liberalism has nothing to offer here. Pity, would have liked to observed you and Sunni going for it, but you don't have the cajones to take on even a single Muslim poster. Ah well.

 

[aris2chat]

and how many sects are there in islam and how many scholarly schools of each?
Even the quran was a work in progress with changes over 150 yr period

There may be different Islamic schools of thought. But none of them separate mosque and state.
And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. .....
^^^^^^^^^^
ROFLMAO ^^^

Amazing he knows so little of his own faith. Sadly I don't think most muslims are that knowledgeable. Christians are not much better. Knowing chapter and verse is like knowing the alphabet, but that does not mean they can read or understand most of the words in all the books, let alone understand the whole book.

Arabic is a bit more complicated, I could read arabic and I could speak, but the two are not the same. It was harder for me since arabic was not my first or even my second language. My mother only know a few words and phrases but could not read at all.

How do people know so little of their history? How do they know so little of their faith that they cling so tightly to?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

"And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. ....."

Either prove that isn't so, as Sunni Man posted, or STFU?

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

Yeah. You've more or less now said it will only work under perfect conditions. You can't operate in a vacuum, dreary. So, Like I said, liberalism has nothing to offer here. Pity, would have liked to observed you and Sunni going for it, but you don't have the cajones to take on even a single Muslim poster. Ah well.

I can't get anything into your dogmatic thick skull, it will twice as hard with his.

 

[Tilly]

Why don't you pit your liberal logic against sunni's 'faith'? You can give us a demo of how liberalism works to deradicalise fundies. Put your money where your cake hole is for a change

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

Yeah. You've more or less now said it will only work under perfect conditions. You can't operate in a vacuum, dreary. So, Like I said, liberalism has nothing to offer here. Pity, would have liked to observed you and Sunni going for it, but you don't have the cajones to take on even a single Muslim poster. Ah well.

I can't get anything into your dogmatic thick skull, it will twice as hard with his.

My point all along. And Sunni is not exactly unusual. That's why liberalism offers much, much too little, if anything, and takes way, way too long to probably get nowhere. Bingo. The penny has dropped.

 

[Tilly]

Nighty night

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How do people know so little of their history? How do they know so little of their faith that they cling so tightly to?

Works like this:

What is the meaning of life? To serve God. Who is God? God is Love, the Creator of Everything. To serve Him is to give your life meaning and live for eternity in a paradise when you die. He will protect you if you obey His commands.

Oh, okay, well then I'm off to plow the fields and make babies now since my questions have been answered...

 

[aris2chat]

and how many sects are there in islam and how many scholarly schools of each?
Even the quran was a work in progress with changes over 150 yr period

There may be different Islamic schools of thought. But none of them separate mosque and state.

And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. .....

^^^^^^^^^^
ROFLMAO

Prove him wrong? TY...

elementary logic-----you cannot PROVE a negative

The Koran exists, unlike God. Prove that it is different, than when the Prophet revealed it? Do tell.

First of all it is not in the order they were revealed. Second the hadiths speak of the errors and changes even during the time of the prophet that he said were permissible. The hadiths speak of seven version of the quran. There are around 20 different qurans, and I don't mean translations into other languages. Some of the oldest copies of the quran prove to have been developed and edited over more than a hundred years. There are also a number of ways to read and interpret the quran.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

If he was honest, neither of you are, I could, given 20 years and no one like you around.

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

Yeah. You've more or less now said it will only work under perfect conditions. You can't operate in a vacuum, dreary. So, Like I said, liberalism has nothing to offer here. Pity, would have liked to observed you and Sunni going for it, but you don't have the cajones to take on even a single Muslim poster. Ah well.

I can't get anything into your dogmatic thick skull, it will twice as hard with his.

My point all along. And Sunni is not exactly unusual. That's why liberalism offers much, much too little, if anything, and takes way, way too long to probably get nowhere. Bingo. The penny has dropped.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor Christianity forced to stop burning witches.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There may be different Islamic schools of thought. But none of them separate mosque and state.

And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. .....

^^^^^^^^^^
ROFLMAO

Prove him wrong? TY...

elementary logic-----you cannot PROVE a negative

The Koran exists, unlike God. Prove that it is different, than when the Prophet revealed it? Do tell.

First of all it is not in the order they were revealed. Second the hadiths speak of the errors and changes even during the time of the prophet that he said were permissible. The hadiths speak of seven version of the quran. There are around 20 different qurans, and I don't mean translations into other languages. Some of the oldest copies of the quran prove to have been developed and edited over more than a hundred years. There are also a number of ways to read and interpret the quran.

The Prophet made errors dictating the Holy Word of God? Link please?

 

[Coyote]

Separation of church and state is a western concept.

And will always be rejected by muslim society and culture. ......

Yet is isn't amongst western muslims.

Maybe you are wrong....

shouldn't sunni be the ONE WHOM YOU SHOULD ASK?

I'm in a conversation with Sunni....in case you hadn't noticed....

it's not a private chat room, its a message board forum

You know Aris...why don't you read the exchange first before saying something like that?

I was in a convo with Sunni - i.e. I was asking Sunni

 

[Coyote]

and how many sects are there in islam and how many scholarly schools of each?
Even the quran was a work in progress with changes over 150 yr period

There may be different Islamic schools of thought. But none of them separate mosque and state.

And the Quran remained the same since revealed to Muhammad. .....

Then how do you reconcile a constitutional government with religious dictates?

 

[Coyote]

If ifs and ands were pots and pans, what would tinkers do?
So, as suspected. Your liberalism doesn't have a hope in hell.
Thanks for clearing that up lib boy

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

Yeah. You've more or less now said it will only work under perfect conditions. You can't operate in a vacuum, dreary. So, Like I said, liberalism has nothing to offer here. Pity, would have liked to observed you and Sunni going for it, but you don't have the cajones to take on even a single Muslim poster. Ah well.

I can't get anything into your dogmatic thick skull, it will twice as hard with his.

My point all along. And Sunni is not exactly unusual. That's why liberalism offers much, much too little, if anything, and takes way, way too long to probably get nowhere. Bingo. The penny has dropped.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor Christianity forced to stop burning witches.

How long did it take Christianity to allow women any rights? It's a pretty recent phenomenum in a 2000 yr old religion.

 

[Sunni Man]

Then how do you reconcile a constitutional government with religious dictates?

An example would be the new Iraqi constitution. Which states that the main source of all laws will be based on the Quran. ......

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It wins in the end, but it has many enemies, many advocates for evil, like you, to defeat. It will win the war, but battles will be lost like, well, whatever the fuck blew up in the name of God today.

Yeah. You've more or less now said it will only work under perfect conditions. You can't operate in a vacuum, dreary. So, Like I said, liberalism has nothing to offer here. Pity, would have liked to observed you and Sunni going for it, but you don't have the cajones to take on even a single Muslim poster. Ah well.

I can't get anything into your dogmatic thick skull, it will twice as hard with his.

My point all along. And Sunni is not exactly unusual. That's why liberalism offers much, much too little, if anything, and takes way, way too long to probably get nowhere. Bingo. The penny has dropped.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor Christianity forced to stop burning witches.

How long did it take Christianity to allow women any rights? It's a pretty recent phenomenum in a 2000 yr old religion.

Hence the time delay in creating, liberalized Islam...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Then how do you reconcile a constitutional government with religious dictates?

An example would be the new Iraqi constitution. Which states that the basis of all laws will be based on the Quran. ......

Gonna have to pass on that one. As a liberal I like the separation between Church and State.