Real Conspiracy..

Discussion in 'Conspiracy Theories' started by gslack, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. gslack
    Offline

    gslack Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,527
    Thanks Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +346
    I see a great deal of 9/11 theory posts here. All of them to a varying degree may have bits of truth mixed in with speculation, but those bits of truth are buried in the mass of hypothesis and speculation. This makes the bits of truth hard to discern and even harder to connect to form an accurate and concise legitimate theory.

    They contain, along with a bit of truth, a great deal of A=C ignoring the B, or B + C = A. Now A + B may equal C, and its reverse equation but thats it. All other hypothesis involving the equation are not statements of fact, but mere speculation.

    All of this theory making and speculation would be fine if they did not take away the real glaring questions and answers staring us in the face. All of this is pointing to the "how" and ignoring the "why" or "who". In fact whenever the "who" is even brought up the "how" takes over right away. The reality is the "how" in any investigation, is only important if it points to "who" or "why".

    If a person is found dead on the highway, and the body is full of knife wounds do they go looking for a psycho walking around with a bloody knife in his hand? Would a killer actually advertise like that? No they take the data from the knife wound and try to extrapolate evidence regarding what killed them and how or the manner they were attacked. Once they do that they realize they have a better chance of catching "who", and then the "why" will get answered.

    This same concept and principles should be applied in 9/11 quests for truth as well. How did they fall? Well we know some planes hit them carrying a lot of fuel causing fires. But we also know the heat from those flames alone given the fuel could not have melted the steel structure. So we cannot really prove or disprove anything on that. And the list of conflicting circumstantial evidence is astounding these days. Making it even harder to discern anything any more. Here is a brief list of the major ones.

    1. The jet fuel didn't burn hot enough to melt the steel framework.

    2. The asbestos in the building since construction, foam flame/fire resistant and retardant materials which encased the cores and subsequent steel mainframes and supports made fire reaching and or effecting those steel beams highly improbable if not virtually impossible.

    3. The design of the structures were built with the idea a plane could possibly hit them. And they were constructed to withstand such a catastrophe.

    4. Pictures, video and various other bits of circumstantial evidence point to explosives or more directly to thermite charges.

    5. The manner the investigation was handled and/or the collecting of evidence or lack thereof gives the impression of a cover-up.

    That list was very brief and in no way representative of the astounding mountain of evidence on this, but it is an example of the greater whole. We could take the list and go on indefinitely but for brevities sake I kept it at 5.

    Each of these alone are enough to cause serious doubt, but together they are shocking. However shocking they may be, what do they tell us in reality? Well first they don't address anything but the "how", and second no matter how much similar evidence we show, they have an alibi or explanation for it. No matter how nonsensical the explanations or reasons may be they use them and more repeatedly to make the case clouded and confound the quest for truth.

    Do you think the investigators in our little made-up crime mentioned earlier has to deal with this kind of resistance? Why I seriously doubt it. They come and state the killer used a knife and the person died of knife wounds, and thats the facts. There is no series of alternative explanations, or theories about the knife hypothesis and there definitely isn't a challenge to the reality of A + B = C like we have in 9/11 investigations.

    From this we have to realize we cannot build a case based solely on the "how". No matter how much evidence, circumstantial or otherwise we find or gather, it will simply not be enough. The reason is the crime itself and scope is so shocking, the people at large cannot and will not accept a person or group capable of such a horrendous act. No one questions the investigators of our made-up crime like this because it was small in scale, regarding one life and one killer. 9/11 if the theories are shown to be accurate is on a scale which would have involved many people across the world. People in positions of power and wealth. People whom we trust... And proving that, will not be an easy task by any measure.

    From this we can plainly see that although important, the "how" must be considered irrelevant now. The fact is with every bit of evidence we can find, there will be an opposition and counter theory or reason for it.

    Disregarding the "how" leaves us with two other avenues. The "who" and the "why". Well then lets start with the "who"...

    And again we find a mountain of circumstantial evidence similar to before, but with one striking difference. The "who" has a much shorter list of possible suspects. Why? Because the "who" is much more damaging to the people we trust and are in power over our lives. We and people in general much less likely to blame a person off-hand for this terrible a crime. Another very brief list...

    1. George W. Bush and Co. Family ties to Al Qaeda, Oil money, war profits, etc, etc, etc. The list is compelling and even if its not hard evidence for 9/11 it is damming for the character.

    2. Zionist extremists. Well this group may not have the public eye as much as old GW, but they have some pretty compelling evidence against them as well.

    3. Israeli intelligence/military or sympathizers. Well again not as public as GW but some solid circumstantial evidence as well.

    4. AL Qaeda but at the behest of our government and/or others. Well not as far a stretch as some like to believe. After all they were working for the CIA before.

    5. Rogue individuals/groups/corporations/agencies or whatnot. Well this one is a bit all-inclusive and bunched together making it a bit vague, to keep this from becoming a book I grouped them.

    Again the list is a brief example only and is not representative of the whole body of suspects.

    Well its not as bad as the "how", but its still quite a tangled mess of fact, fantasy and innuendo all mixed together in an uninterpretable mass. GW is a prime suspect, but again its all circumstantial, just like any other suspect on our list. Hell we could say all of the above in some aspect or another and probably be as close to correct as we are ever going to get.

    The problem here is the same in essence. The scope and scale of the crime makes us all reluctant to point the finger and say "they did it". Sure GW is a crafty and sly little weasel, and all the above are vile and corrupt in many instances, but does that make them capable of such a terrible crime? Maybe, but then again maybe not, and who would be prepared to pass that judgement and live with the consequences if they were wrong? An accusation whether leading to a conviction or not is still damaging. Anyone you blame for this crime will carry that with them and their off spring for generations. I wouldn't want to be the guy who blamed the wrong person...

    So again we reach an impasse. unless there is a confession backed by a mountain of hard physical evidence, we will not be able to establish a "who" with any certainty. So what are we to do? We go on to the "why"...

    (to be continued....)
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. candycorn
    Offline

    candycorn Alis volat propriis

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    37,569
    Thanks Received:
    4,551
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +12,069
    Wow...you may be doing the impossible..making the world think that Curvelight has a long lost twin.

    To address a couple of your points...

    Steel bems didn't melt; just weakened.
    Fireproofing was compromised by the impact of the planes.

    Thats as far as I read before I decided you were not worth the effort.
     
  3. gslack
    Offline

    gslack Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,527
    Thanks Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +346
    The "why" is really the thing here. It will give us the "how" and "why" if we can establish a legitimate and compelling reason why, the rest will fall into place and force a realization, and isn't that what this is all about? We are after truth and a punishment of the guilty.. Right?? Of course we are...

    Again we have our brief list of possible reasons why...

    1. Money. Insurance money, stock market money, investment money, war money, you name it its all effected.

    2. Control through fear. Oldest trick in the book of modern government. Used in every way imaginable to do nearly anything you can think of.

    3. Support for a war. Another classic and old stand by since the first governments and leaders.

    4. The Twin towers were a real estate failure of epic proportions and they wanted to get out of it. To do so and not raise suspicion they had to do something so shocking no one would ask questions. The cost to rent or lease there was astronomical and only a select few could afford it. Which brought their costs up even greater.

    5. Asbestos removal costs were more than the real world value of the towers, and adding the costs to update them to current safety standards put the thing beyond any possible gain. So they again had to do something shocking to get out of it and recover some of their losses.

    once more the list is very brief and meant to give an example only.

    Well looking at the list above we are again confronted by the scope and all-encompassing nature of such a situation. And once more we can say "all the above" be about as right as if we picked one from the list. This entire investigation has become an exercise in futility now...

    Sure GW could have done it, or they could have planted explosives, or they could have wanted to be rid of the failed real estate and recoup some losses, and hell maybe it was a insurance scam of epic proportions. or maybe, just maybe it was all of the above "whos", "hows", and "whys"... maybe all of it compounded together and they got an outsider to do the deed to insure plausible deniability. And so what does all of this mean?

    It means everything and it means nothing. Everything in the sense all of it in some aspect or another could be true and factual and some very evil beings are in power. And nothing in the sense of what we can do about it, who we can hold accountable, and who or how we can punish them accordingly.

    if we could find the person responsible and narrow it down to them beyond all doubt; what would the punishment be to fit this horrendous act? Death? Life in prison? Public service? A monetary compensation??? Well I don't think any of these would quite cut it. All of them still leave me with a feeling there needs to be more, or that it must be more fitting the nature and scope of the crime they committed. But we are then faced with the reality there is no punishment to fit this crime we can be satisfied with, that will not lower us to the level of those who did it.

    To fit a punishment to such a crime would require something of us all. A bit of our soul, a piece of our humanity; a piece we desperately cannot give up in such times as these. Our humanity must remain intact if this is the kind of thing we are to combat in the future. Without it we will soon find ourselves as the monsters we fight. Sure those involved in this lack that humanity, but is it worth losing our own to route them out if that is even possible? I don't think so...

    The reality is, the conspirators, perpetrators and those responsible are protecting one another as if it were their own necks on the chopping block. They know if one falls then so go them all. There will never be a single conviction, official charges or accusations made on any party, group or individual which could have actually been involved no matter how severe or slight their role. The only ones ever blamed, accused or convicted will be deliberate sacrificial lambs, and or outside parties. That is the very core of any coup, secret government conspiracy or cover-up or anything similar in any fashion to this.

    Look at all similar scenarios of conspiracy or cover-up in the past and you can notice a pattern. First there is a lot of speculation and random finger pointing, a stark contrast to a real crime investigation. The police do not do such things when investigating a murder. They keep the statements they make regarding the subject limited to facts. Second, they soon after have a suspect that is so completely compelling very few will doubt it. And third, they set up a committee to investigate their hypothesis and suspects. Notice the committee is already working under the assumptions of how and who prior to the proceedings.... Yeah, thats why the Warren Commission, and 9/11 Commission reports are so screwed up. They aren't there to investigate who or how, but to tell everyone the official story and what they are going to claim.

    That's why there is no concise and clear answer that is both logical and reasonable without some serious dancing from so many of the faithful. it's not supposed to do that, its supposed to protect those involved and place a buffer that will make any real investigation impossible from the outside. The committees aren't "in" on it, they don't have to be because they are doing their job. And their job is limited prior to accepting the task.

    These are but two examples of this form of fallacy. We have so many others throughout history as testament to this. We have the investigations over Nazi war crimes which for some unknown reason left out a great many scientists and researchers who conducted the atrocities. We have the investigations of trading with the enemy during WWII where a Bank was closed but the guilty parties in charge of the bank were left free and clear. We have the sinking of the Lusitania which is now widely regarded as a contrived event to get us into WWI, which is ignored to this day.

    So what are we to do? Where are we to turn?

    (to be continued....)
     
  4. gslack
    Offline

    gslack Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,527
    Thanks Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +346
    So a guy selling loans for someone with his avatar who didn't actually read what I posted, has decided in his all-knowing way that despite not reading it and not understanding it he should comment and pass judgement nonetheless.....

    okay thank you... Now if you aren't going to read it why bother to reply to it? Seems ignorant and a waste of time to me.... or are just trolling to get your ad shown in enough threads?
     
  5. Defiant1
    Online

    Defiant1 Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,214
    Thanks Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Ratings:
    +987
    I hear they found George Bush's thumbprint on the detonator.
     
  6. gslack
    Offline

    gslack Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,527
    Thanks Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +346
    LOL, well then I am sure they have some reason for it otherwise we'd never of heard about it...:lol:
     
  7. Shorebreak
    Offline

    Shorebreak Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    395
    Thanks Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +102
    Incorrect.

    According to FEMA and according to numerous recorded testimonies and reports, there were vast pools of molten metal in the WTC rubble.

    Since the beams were only weakened, what was the catalyst to turn the steel into pools of molten material?

    Here's one of them by NYFD hero's (36 seconds):

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCdRA09pztM]YouTube - 9/11: Molten Metal at Ground Zero[/ame]
     
  8. gslack
    Offline

    gslack Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,527
    Thanks Received:
    346
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +346
    it doesn't matter he already stated he didn't read it and in so doing showed he couldn't have understood the point I was making. I believe he is just trolling to show us his loan company ad...

    And your point is a very valid one.
     
  9. candycorn
    Offline

    candycorn Alis volat propriis

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    37,569
    Thanks Received:
    4,551
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +12,069
    "Ignorant waste of time"....

    I'm guessing you are reading your High School Annual where someone wrote next to your name?

    Go Kiva!
     
  10. candycorn
    Offline

    candycorn Alis volat propriis

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    37,569
    Thanks Received:
    4,551
    Trophy Points:
    1,130
    Ratings:
    +12,069
    Metal and steel could be two different things. Aluminum is a metal. Scientists tell us that tin is a metal.

    Cars were melted in the basement and lord only knows what type of chemicals were stored down there. In the basement of one building where I worked, they had acetylene (sp)?

    Anyway, show me where it was molten steel from the beams and we'll talk.

    What is never explained by any of you people is how...WHEN THOUSANDS OF SURVIVORS WERE FLEEING TO SAFETY IN THE STAIRS THAT WERE IN THE CORE OF THE BUILDING...not one reported a showering of thermite cutting through steel in that same core. No firefighter saw it going up...nobody was hit with it coming down.
     

Share This Page