Rand/Ryan/ --- does "altruism" exist in life , in politics?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by healthmyths, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. healthmyths
    Offline

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,230
    Thanks Received:
    2,044
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,850
    Definition per Wikipedia: "Altruism is the opposite of selfishness."

    Altruism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    With Paul Ryan and Ayn Rand top of mind awareness brings "altruism" up.

    Is there such a characteristic though?

    I don't think there is altruism IN anyone.

    Illustration:
    How many times have you heard someone say especially at Christmas,...
    "Oh I just love giving gifts.. more then receiving gifts!"

    That maybe seen as an "altruistic" attitude.

    MY perspective it is a "selfish" motive.
    The act of "giving" makes this person "feel good..loved", "appreciated".
    All actions that are selfish.
    Why else would someone give a gift if the only currency in return is making themselves feel "good" about giving?

    Where is the altruism in that?

    Why do the Gates' of the world give billions? Many call it altruism, me I call it compensation for having more then other people! Guilt.

    So whenever you read about Mother Theresa type "altruism" consider that at the minimum in the case of Mother Theresa her "altruism" at the minimum made her "feel good" a selfish reason.

    Ergo.. there is no such thing as a truly "altruistic" act because as in Newton's Third law of motion: "When two bodies interact by exerting force on each other, these forces (termed the action and the reaction) are equal in magnitude, but opposite in direction."

    So too with "altruism" i.e. an act of altruism generates a sense of well being in the person doing the act.
     
  2. G.T.
    Offline

    G.T. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    47,536
    Thanks Received:
    7,577
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Location:
    out
    Ratings:
    +27,478
    In other words, always look out for oneself because when looking out for others you're only serving oneself anyways?

    fuck off, that's retarded.
     
  3. Inthemiddle
    Offline

    Inthemiddle BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,354
    Thanks Received:
    674
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +674
    The perspective of an emotionally stunted person.

    The first part of your problem is that you're being extremist and absolutist. You seem to think that altruistic actions, and the rewards of "feeling good about one's self," etc are mutually exclusive and cannot overlap.

    Your example about Christmas time is, to say the least, pathetic. People saying such things are usually phonies, and are simply repeating what someone, somewhere once told them they should think. They probably haven't even bothered to think about the matter on their own.

    Even if we accept your idea that altruism requires absolutism in order to exist at all, your position still fails when spontaneous acts of heroics are introduced into the equation. Imagine being at the local swimming pool and a 4 year old jumps into the deep end. A nearby patron sees it and immediately reacts, and rescues the little kid. Your position requires that the person must first have had the time to think about how they would feel good afterward if they helped someone, or how they would gain some other benefit. Maybe they just reacted, without any time even available beforehand. How about a soldier who, with less than a second to act, throws his body on a grenade, sacrificing his own life and eliminating his ability to gain any reward whatsoever afterward, in order to prevent the grenade taking out his entire squad? Or the man who is sitting in a movie theater when a crazed gunman opens fire, and immediately jumps on top of his wife or girlfriend to shield her from harm, faster than the gunman can get off even his second shot?

    Just because nobody is nice to YOU without trying to get something from you, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen among the rest of us. ;)
     
  4. healthmyths
    Offline

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,230
    Thanks Received:
    2,044
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,850
    Does that make you feel better ?
    Because NO matter how retarded you act it is in response to an action.
    Just as GIVING your time to help someone else for example... makes you feel good right?

    Even your stupid comment shows the validity of the statement that there is NO such thing as an altruistic act!

    Jimmy Carter Habitat for Humanity. Why does he do it? Makes him feel good!
    Selfish.
    You put money into the Salvation army kettle. Why? You want to help someone because why? It makes you feel good!

    No matter how you cut it. It makes you FEEL good!

    You can't explain it in any other way!

    When you drop a buck in the beggar's hand why kind of feeling do you have?
    You can do so out of guilt that you have more so you want to appease your guilt.
    You can give it because you feel bad for the person and you want to "help" in some way make it better so you won't feel bad!

    Which of these applies to you???
     
  5. Greenbeard
    Offline

    Greenbeard Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,809
    Thanks Received:
    1,200
    Trophy Points:
    200
    Location:
    New England
    Ratings:
    +1,323
    Looks like Objectivism will become the buzzword of the season. Time for the right to find their inner atheism.
     
  6. G.T.
    Offline

    G.T. Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    47,536
    Thanks Received:
    7,577
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Location:
    out
    Ratings:
    +27,478
    I think my dog is a better person to know, than you are.
     
  7. Inthemiddle
    Offline

    Inthemiddle BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,354
    Thanks Received:
    674
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +674
    And what you fail to comprehend is that what makes it altruism IS THE FACT THAT YOU DO FEEL GOOD FOR HELPING OTHER PEOPLE.

    If I drop a Jackson in the Salvation Army bucket and tell the guy that I don't want to hear that damn bell for the next 10 minutes while me and my girlfriend load up, while being resentful of the guy and what he's doing in the first place, there's nothing altruistic about that. Yes, I helped someone, but I feel like crap about it. But if I drop a nickel in and think to myself "eh, I don't need it, but maybe I'm being part of a much bigger puzzle that will help lots of people" than I'm being altruistic.
     
  8. healthmyths
    Offline

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,230
    Thanks Received:
    2,044
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,850
    A) You don't think --- YOU FEEL your dog is better..
    B) Does that make you feel better to speak badly of me when I'm making an observation?

    If it makes you feel better .. GOOD! That makes ME feel better that YOU feel better for making your observation about your dog being better then me!

    See the equation balances. I just was making an observation.
    You on the other hand were offended and needed to balance by making me out to be worse then your dog. Fine if THAT is all it takes to raise your perception of yourself!
     
  9. healthmyths
    Offline

    healthmyths Gold Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    15,230
    Thanks Received:
    2,044
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Ratings:
    +3,850
    Did it make YOU feel better to get that off your chest?
    To berate me for making an observation that there is NOT an altruistic action is a sure sign of a very poor self image that requires tearing an observer down rather then addressing the topic.

    Now you did raise several examples of what could be altruistic actions.
    Just recently a 4 year old ft worth TX boy has died after successfully saving a 3 year old girl from drowning. Is this an "altruistic act"?
    I don't think so. I don't think the boy willingly died to save the girl. He like most of us will try to help because that is built into our genetic code, i.e. helping the weaker to survive.
    It didn't use to be by the way!

    Now your example of someone falling on a grenade makes an even better case for an altruistic action. And in this instance there probably is more in favor of considering it an unselfish act... in this case I can't be sure.

    NOW as far as Ryan/Rand and politics?
    There is NEVER in politics an altruistic action!
    So all this chest beating about Ryan pushing granny over a cliff.. pure hysterics!
    It is appealing to many people like you that are phony compassionistas... i.e. it is the "in" thing" to care" and appeals to your emotions for sure which is the ONLY driver in your life!
    Whatever makes you feel good right?? Giving a nickel to the beggar???

    So I am a selfish person. I admit it!
    And while I abhor people who are pompous and boastful about how "good it makes them feel" to give... the ONE attribute I take the most pride in is my honest humility!
    Went way over your head didn't it???
     
  10. francoHFW
    Offline

    francoHFW Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    33,438
    Thanks Received:
    2,177
    Trophy Points:
    1,115
    Location:
    NY 26th FINALLY DEM!
    Ratings:
    +5,608
    Not in the New GOP. Reagan made attacking the poor acceptable- Cuomo.
     

Share This Page