Rand Paul's platform within his speech / 15 points worth debating

[jon_berzerk]

i still would like to see the speech

anyone have a link

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Economic freedom zones is DOA, local/state governments will not participate and are likely to raise taxes to grab any money the Federal government coughs up.

That's a good point. Detroit isn't a shithole because of the feds. The local governments screwed that pooch.

 

[BluesLegend]

Economic freedom zones is DOA, local/state governments will not participate and are likely to raise taxes to grab any money the Federal government coughs up.

Why do you think this?

In many states and I have lived in a few its no longer Dem vs Rep its Government vs Taxpayers. State and local government has become greedy and corrupt. They are so greedy they will tax a business right into bankruptcy, even when that's not in their long term interest, they don't care. I just don't see them tightening their belts to give tax breaks to their victims and if the Federal government puts up some money the greedy bastards will figure out how to line their pockets with it.

Every wonder what happened to a LOT of the stimulus money? You know that $800 billion that was supposed to create "shovel ready" jobs? Yes the greedy state and local government grabbed the money and instead spent it on themselves. Well into the worst of the recession unemployment among state and local government was virtually unchanged at 3.8% because they were using the stimulus money to avoid layoffs and cutbacks. When that money finally ran out a couple years later then you finally started seeing some layoffs.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Economic freedom zones is DOA, local/state governments will not participate and are likely to raise taxes to grab any money the Federal government coughs up.

Why do you think this?

In many states and I have lived in a few its no longer Dem vs Rep its Government vs Taxpayers. State and local government has become greedy and corrupt. They are so greedy they will tax a business right into bankruptcy, even when that's not in their long term interest, they don't care. I just don't see them tightening their belts to give tax breaks to their victims and if the Federal government puts up some money the greedy bastards will figure out how to line their pockets with it.

Every wonder what happened to a LOT of the stimulus money? You know that $800 billion that was supposed to create "shovel ready" jobs? Yes the greedy state and local government grabbed the money and instead spent it on themselves. Well into the worst of the recession unemployment among state and local government was virtually unchanged at 3.8% because they were using the stimulus money to avoid layoffs and cutbacks. When that money finally ran out a couple years later then you finally started seeing some layoffs.

State and local government has become greedy and corrupt.

yup

 

[Missouri_Mike]

5.) for Economic Freedom Zones in the big cities.

This one seems to be a pandering thing as well. If lower taxes work in big cities they work everywhere. I hate it when politicians carve out one group for favors like this. The plan is solid and he can talk about Detroit and how they would benefit but why make them a special area? It's good policy for everyone.

Cause if we don't they go bankrupt and we have to give them money anyways.

My question is why would we do that? It makes no sense. A lot of cities and towns are ghost towns now for the same reasons Detroit should be. They lost their industrial base. No money should be sent to keep them afloat forever. Let Detroit shrink to a size it can sustain and let the property be returned for farmland. Balance will be achieved one way or another.

 

[Statistikhengst]

i still would like to see the speech

anyone have a link

Here is the entire speech, with all the trappings before:

Senator Rand Paul R-KY Presidential Campaign Video C-SPAN.org


The actual speech starts about about 1:08 (1 hour and 8 minutes) into this video.

 

[BluesLegend]

5.) for Economic Freedom Zones in the big cities.

This one seems to be a pandering thing as well. If lower taxes work in big cities they work everywhere. I hate it when politicians carve out one group for favors like this. The plan is solid and he can talk about Detroit and how they would benefit but why make them a special area? It's good policy for everyone.

Cause if we don't they go bankrupt and we have to give them money anyways.

My question is why would we do that? It makes no sense. A lot of cities and towns are ghost towns now for the same reasons Detroit should be. They lost their industrial base. No money should be sent to keep them afloat forever. Let Detroit shrink to a size it can sustain and let the property be returned for farmland. Balance will be achieved one way or another.

One thing is for sure, unless there is drastic change in state and local government any federal money will vanish into a black hole. Sadly this has been going on for decades, its a huge problem. I remember during the Clinton administration they decimated the logging industry around the country, Clinton provided billions of dollars to affected states to help them re-train and help the affected communities many of which relied solely on logging. Here in Oregon the greedy corrupt POS governor grabbed all the money and spent most of it not on helping these timber dependent communities but on a bunch of other state spending pet projects.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Rand Paul received standing ovations at the NAACP and at Stanford Universities, sure it was mostly an internal ovation but he is a clear bright line between Statism and Freedom

1.) for fiscal restraint (don't spend more than we bring in)
No debate
2.) for a balanced-budget amendment to the US Constitution
nothing to debate
3.) for congressional term-limits
Fuck that, make Congress unpaid, part time work no staffing. We don't need a permanent political class and we have more than enough laws
4.) for "read the bills" act.
Yeah, right
5.) for Economic Freedom Zones in the big cities.
??
6.) for bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA.
how?
7.) for school vouchers
Don't stop there, Close the Dept of "Education"
8.) for naming the enemy as "radical Islam", and then acting accordingly.
whatever that means
9.) against nation-building
Yeah, Letting Iraq to go hell was a great idea
10.) against any Iran-deal without express Congressional approval
That's already the law
11.) against foreign aid
good
12.) strongly against the NSA and warrantless data-gathering on US citizens.
He got a standing O at Stanford for that
13.) anti- interventionistic
yeah
14.) wants to repeal laws that disproportionately incarcerates blacks/latinos
legalize drugs
15.) for a "restrained" IRS
abolish the IRS

OK, close the thread

 

[Statistikhengst]

Rand Paul received standing ovations at the NAACP and at Stanford Universities, sure it was mostly an internal ovation but he is a clear bright line between Statism and Freedom

1.) for fiscal restraint (don't spend more than we bring in)
No debate
2.) for a balanced-budget amendment to the US Constitution
nothing to debate
3.) for congressional term-limits
Fuck that, make Congress unpaid, part time work no staffing. We don't need a permanent political class and we have more than enough laws
4.) for "read the bills" act.
Yeah, right
5.) for Economic Freedom Zones in the big cities.
??
6.) for bringing manufacturing jobs back to the USA.
how?
7.) for school vouchers
Don't stop there, Close the Dept of "Education"
8.) for naming the enemy as "radical Islam", and then acting accordingly.
whatever that means
9.) against nation-building
Yeah, Letting Iraq to go hell was a great idea
10.) against any Iran-deal without express Congressional approval
That's already the law
11.) against foreign aid
good
12.) strongly against the NSA and warrantless data-gathering on US citizens.
He got a standing O at Stanford for that
13.) anti- interventionistic
yeah
14.) wants to repeal laws that disproportionately incarcerates blacks/latinos
legalize drugs
15.) for a "restrained" IRS
abolish the IRS

OK, close the thread

Glad you took time to respond.

 

[Avorysuds]

As it stands right now I'm not on board with Rand Paul and would not vote or talk him up. At this point it would take a lot for me to back him.


He is anti gay *lite* and that is just sickening to me. We should all be treated equal by our Government. There should be no discrimination based on if you are married, single, Black, White, Asian, gay, bi, strait or tranny. Dems and Republicans just don't get this and it's gross.


He also said "day one" he would end unconstitutional surveillance. After Obama pulled that stunt and lied to tens of millions of sheeplings I won't make that mistake.

 

[RKMBrown]

5.) for Economic Freedom Zones in the big cities.

This one seems to be a pandering thing as well. If lower taxes work in big cities they work everywhere. I hate it when politicians carve out one group for favors like this. The plan is solid and he can talk about Detroit and how they would benefit but why make them a special area? It's good policy for everyone.

Cause if we don't they go bankrupt and we have to give them money anyways.

My question is why would we do that? It makes no sense. A lot of cities and towns are ghost towns now for the same reasons Detroit should be. They lost their industrial base. No money should be sent to keep them afloat forever. Let Detroit shrink to a size it can sustain and let the property be returned for farmland. Balance will be achieved one way or another.

I don't think you've thought out the whole tax break thing. Tax breaks for corporations that move jobs from overseas to our shores is not the same as sending money to a chity to keep it afloat. Tax breaks to corporations that invest in a region that is debt is not the same as sending money to a chity to keep it afloat.

As it stands we pay people not to work. IMO it's better to provide incentive to work. Hand ups not hand outs.

 

[Zander]

Stat -Thank you for the excellent summary.

I agree with Rand on every issue he discussed.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Stat -Thank you for the excellent summary.

I agree with Rand on every issue he discussed.

Got it. Check.



It may surprise you that there are some issues where I very much agree with him.

 

[defcon4]

Stat, this conversation of brain storming and "public opinion" can be useful for the den candidate

Fuck that, make Congress unpaid, part time work no staffing. We don't need a permanent political class and we have more than enough laws

I agree on the Representative level. They should have regular jobs and convene for 2 weeks in a year. Senators may need to stay longer in Washington. In case of emergency like war, for example: when the Liechtenstein-Luxemburg coalition attacks the USA, they should convene for two days to decide to surrender or fight back.

 

[defcon4]

He is anti gay *lite* and that is just sickening to me.

So, how would you go about it to get elected? If you are a Libertarian you should know better where he stands in reality and not in political speech.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Stat -Thank you for the excellent summary.

I agree with Rand on every issue he discussed.

Got it. Check.

Stat, this conversation of brain storming and "public opinion" can be useful for the den candidate

Fuck that, make Congress unpaid, part time work no staffing. We don't need a permanent political class and we have more than enough laws

I agree on the Representative level. They should have regular jobs and convene for 2 weeks in a year. Senators may need to stay longer in Washington. In case of emergency like war, for example: when the Liechtenstein-Luxemburg coalition attacks the USA, they should convene for two days to decide to surrender or fight back.

Oh, I agree, it can be useful for every single candidate. I was pressed for time during Ted Cruz's speech and so I didn't get around to it then. It was not meant as a slight, but I do have a life and lots of work.... but when time allows, I plan to do this with the other candidacy speeches as well. They generally don't go over 30 minutes.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

5.) for Economic Freedom Zones in the big cities.

This one seems to be a pandering thing as well. If lower taxes work in big cities they work everywhere. I hate it when politicians carve out one group for favors like this. The plan is solid and he can talk about Detroit and how they would benefit but why make them a special area? It's good policy for everyone.

Cause if we don't they go bankrupt and we have to give them money anyways.

My question is why would we do that? It makes no sense. A lot of cities and towns are ghost towns now for the same reasons Detroit should be. They lost their industrial base. No money should be sent to keep them afloat forever. Let Detroit shrink to a size it can sustain and let the property be returned for farmland. Balance will be achieved one way or another.

I don't think you've thought out the whole tax break thing. Tax breaks for corporations that move jobs from overseas to our shores is not the same as sending money to a chity to keep it afloat. Tax breaks to corporations that invest in a region that is debt is not the same as sending money to a chity to keep it afloat.

As it stands we pay people not to work. IMO it's better to provide incentive to work. Hand ups not hand outs.

That's pretty much what I intended to state in my original post. Get the tax rates down so the entire country is competitive and then companies will move their operations here all by themselves. We don't need and shouldn't provide special deals for anyone. If it's good policy for some it's good policy for all. Once the feds drop their rate to a level that leaves the states enough headroom to adjust then the 50 states can compete and then the cities within that state can follow suit.

 

[Borillar]

14.) wants to repeal laws that disproportionately incarcerates blacks/latinos

What exactly does this mean? Are you going to relax laws for minorities just to make it look good on paper? If blacks and latino's commit more crimes as a percentage of the population then their numbers in prison SHOULD be higher. I suspect he's setting up some kind of drug legalization stance.

He may be referring to laws such as those regarding crack cocaine, where the penalty is much higher than that for powder cocaine and disproportionately effects the black community. The only difference between the two is baking soda, yet penalties may be decades of prison time apart.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Stat -Thank you for the excellent summary.

I agree with Rand on every issue he discussed.

Got it. Check.

Stat, this conversation of brain storming and "public opinion" can be useful for the den candidate

Fuck that, make Congress unpaid, part time work no staffing. We don't need a permanent political class and we have more than enough laws

I agree on the Representative level. They should have regular jobs and convene for 2 weeks in a year. Senators may need to stay longer in Washington. In case of emergency like war, for example: when the Liechtenstein-Luxemburg coalition attacks the USA, they should convene for two days to decide to surrender or fight back.

Oh, I agree, it can be useful for every single candidate. I was pressed for time during Ted Cruz's speech and so I didn't get around to it then. It was not meant as a slight, but I do have a life and lots of work.... but when time allows, I plan to do this with the other candidacy speeches as well. They generally don't go over 30 minutes.

Probably time to set up a politics sub-forum for this stuff.

 

[Statistikhengst]

14.) wants to repeal laws that disproportionately incarcerates blacks/latinos

What exactly does this mean? Are you going to relax laws for minorities just to make it look good on paper? If blacks and latino's commit more crimes as a percentage of the population then their numbers in prison SHOULD be higher. I suspect he's setting up some kind of drug legalization stance.

He may be referring to laws such as those regarding crack cocaine, where the penalty is much higher than that for powder cocaine and disproportionately effects the black community. The only difference between the two is baking soda, yet penalties may be decades of prison time apart.

Yepp.