Questions for fellow liberals:

[Meister]

Yukon, your a moron.

Meister, Coming from you I see that as a compliment.

Note: You spelled it wrong. It should be "you're" not "your".

Your right but, I didn't have the opportunity to go to your superior Canadian schools. Wud ya xpect???

 

[Yukon]

Meister,

I was lucky enough to spend time in school in both Canada and the USA. Both education systems are quite good.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Your question should be forwarded to your Conservative friends. No Liberal would answer such right-wing drivel.


Yukon, you are an idiot. I mean that in good way. Illegal aliens threaten to kill me if they disagree, you add insult to injury by just insulting. You, my canuck friend, don't have a bloody clue and I hope you never do . But in the meanwhile, show me the same compassion you have for these asshole illegal aliens you don't have to actually deal with in your version of cloud coo coo land, buckwheat. The natives used to say, don't judge a man until you walk in his moccasins. Do that, live with illegal aliens that threaten you daily and then after three or four years, feel free to mock or condescend, OK? You wouldn't last one week in my shoes, ya jerk. But feel free to be judgmental as you please. That goes for the rest of you other illegal supporters. I am suffering no delusions here. YOU are.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You presume that the liberals are supportive of going soft on liberals despite the fact that Bush II and Teddy Kennedy were behind the latest legislation regarding them?

And you expect us to take your ignorance seriously?

Conservatives want to put this issue on bleeding heart liberal groups and/or Democrats who want to win the hispanic vote.

While these people might be defenders of illegal immigrants, they are not the ones keeping them here in this country.

This isn't an illegal immigrant problem, this is an illegal employer problem.

If people stopped hiring them, they'd go home tomorrow.

Via Condios Muchacho's.

Because seniorita's don't caro when there's no denero,

I guess you missed Pelosi's little speech the other day about how enforcing the law and prosecuting employers for hiring illegals and rounding them up is Un American?

By the way very few of the liberals on this board will actually fess up to BEING liberals.

 

[WillowTree]

You presume that the liberals are supportive of going soft on liberals despite the fact that Bush II and Teddy Kennedy were behind the latest legislation regarding them?

And you expect us to take your ignorance seriously?

nopsie nopsie,, the very latest is Pop up Pelosi said it "un Amerian" and Ms. Napolitano.. sh'es just flat out nixed raiding place that hire illegals, you can't ask them' you can't check social security numbers,, in short every single measure put forth to curb the problems of illeagls has been nixed by the Democrats and the ACLU so you need to get the hell off that stick of liberals don't support illegals,, you sure as hell do.

 

[WillowTree]

You presume that the liberals are supportive of going soft on liberals despite the fact that Bush II and Teddy Kennedy were behind the latest legislation regarding them?

And you expect us to take your ignorance seriously?

Conservatives want to put this issue on bleeding heart liberal groups and/or Democrats who want to win the hispanic vote. That's right.

While these people might be defenders of illegal immigrants, they are not the ones keeping them here in this country. Yes they are!

This isn't an illegal immigrant problem, this is an illegal employer problem. No it isn't.
If people stopped hiring them, they'd go home tomorrow. Not as long as Democrats keep blocking every move ever made to deal with the problem
Via Condios Muchacho's.

Because seniorita's don't caro when there's no denero,

Suck it up bobo... they are here and they will take yer jobs,, at union wages!

 

[WillowTree]

Your question should be forwarded to your Conservative friends. No Liberal would answer such right-wing drivel.

To what country does an illegal have allegiance too? Let's ignore the fact that they have all those Mexican flags on their cars, or on their houses and they aren't too keen on English , how are we going to take them seriously when they have the gall to call themselves "immigrants"? Just because they ignore immigration law, that isn't some kind of glaring little inconsistency? But gosh, they make great little labor market spoilers doing their best to become bargain basement job whores. That balances out all their crime and their asinine and ignorant disfunctional behavior disguised as culture? Oh, Ok. And, the fact they ignore immigration laws, what other laws to illegal feel entitled to disobey? If they really want to be treated fairly and humanely, shouldn't they acclimate and follow OUR laws whether or not it's convenient for them? And the "DIVERSITY" ploy. They only want diversity as long as it's HISPANIC , Spanish speaking and the hell with any other culture. Including American culture, yes kids, that's pretty much been my experience with illegals. These illegals are the bigoted xenophobes and hypocrites to beat the band. It doesn't look so good for these people when you look at them up close and personal. In a nut shell, they demand that we Norte Americanos let them walk in as they please, demand we change our immigration laws to suit THEM and mock our culture, ignore our heritage. I remember recently when Miss America was booed in Mexico city when she was announced during the Miss Universe pageant a couple of years ago. Or, when the Mexican spectators during a world soccer game began yelling "Osama" ( the terrorist) when the USA beat them in soccer. This is a couple of good examples of Mexican culture too me, corrupt, egocentric, insensitive and crude. In effect they want us to be sensitive to their insensitivity, because its their "culture". They are offended when want them to respect our culture and our laws, though. No, we can't have it both was, it seems Mexicans can do no wrong. Two wrongs may not make a right, but 12 million illegal aliens are acceptable. Why is that?

Yukon, your a moron.

That rhymes,, kind of!

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

I am a liberal, it's true. Fact is, anyone, liberal or conservative just want fairness, and Illegal aliens, they flaunt fairness, they oppose fairness and all of you wankers rue the day fairness becomes the issue because good forbid, fairness is the bloody last thing you folks want.

 

[WillowTree]

I am a liberal, it's true. Fact is, anyone, liberal or conservative just want fairness, and Illegal aliens, they flaunt fairness, they oppose fairness and all of you wankers rue the day fairness becomes the issue because good forbid, fairness is the bloody last thing you folks want.

To whom do you refer?

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Yukon, your a moron.

Meister, Coming from you I see that as a compliment.

Note: You spelled it wrong. It should be "you're" not "your".

And, that means...You are so samrt. Quote that.

 

[Yukon]

Illegal immigrants indeed, any non-white immigrant, has no allegiance whatsoever to his adopted country. In my opinion they simply rape our countries (Canada and the USA) of wealth. They almost never call themselves Canadians or Americans unless of course they get questioned by an Immigartion Official.

Call me a racist, call me a Nazi, call me whatever you like but that's what I believe. Maybe I feel this way because I am a 61 year old LIBERAL who has earned the title of "Yukon Man".

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

Yukon, I live right next door to illegals, and that is no joke. They threaten to kill me, but they somehow get away with it. All those wonderful folks I can't comprehend glorify or worship Hispanic culture. I don't understand that,I just report it. To say I don't understand it, given the SHIT I have seen them dole out is an understatement. Crime. Murder, drugs, and much more. Overcrowding, squalor and the suspicion , you can't innumerate or imagine it until you live the fucking nightmare that America has become. Unless you are an other Anglo elitist that WON"T live with these wonderful illegal immigrants. Oh, can't get yer hands dirty and all that. But, yes, they defend them to the bloody grave. Well, so they would make it sound, anyway.

 

[morpheus]

SW2SILVERQUASI,

When it comes to classifying people's political views with the application of extremely rigid and limited criteria that tend to prevail in these boards, I tend to fall more into the "liberal" camp than the "conservative" one. So I felt the inherent need to click on the subject heading for your thread, and read your frustrating tirade.

So here's my answer:

Concerns about illegal immigration are certainly legitimate, and anyone who dismisses these concerns by playing the "racism" card or the "we are all immigrants card" card, is himself ignorant and naive.

However, there are several statements and stances in your opening post that strike me as a bit problematic, first and foremost the collective blame that you place on all Mexicans for those two displays of anti-americanism that you mentioned. That somehow Mexican immigrants in the United States should collectively be held accountable for the views of some people who have stayed in Mexico, this comes off as very worrisome and a bit prejudiced on your part. I won't even touch on the subject exploring why anti-americanism exists throughout the world (and the reason is not as outrageous as you may think), but your collective punishment on an entire nationality for the actions of a few is a bit iniquitous. Hopefully, you can see why this jeopardizes your credibility as someone to have a rational discussion with on this issue.

As for the neglect and/or displacement of indigenous American culture in favor of [supposedly] immigrant cultures and the so-called "multiculturalism", there are several dynamics at play here, and illegal immigrants are not the ones to blame. It's difficult to argue that immigration is displacing -or as you put it "destroying"- American culture, when indigenous Americans are themselves turning away from their own culture and have been embracing the fallacious concept of an ethnically and culturally neutral country. For example, immigrants are not the ones forcing Americans to stop cooking traditional American cuisine in favor of fast food and microwaveable dinners. Nor are immigrants the ones who are promoting the use of "Happy Holidays" over "Merry Christmas", or the destruction of traditional American architecture in favor of freeways and McMansion suburbs. The deterioration of American culture has been slowly occurring over the past several decades as a result of this bizarre concept of "progress" that's been subconsciously embraced by American society that not only rejects traditional American customs and practices, but also looks down on immigrant or "ethnic" cultures, both of these being seen as inferior to the modernist worldview.

The point I'm trying to illustrate is partly exemplified by midcan5's post when he/she states:

And in case you missed it there is plenty of ethic [sic] and other nation flags and celebrations in this country. We are all (you know the exclusion) immigrants. America is a land of diversity, it made us great. But so did the idea we are Americans.

This worldview that stipulates foreigners [as well as indigenous minorities] as "ethnic" and the indigenous American majority as "non-ethnic", is partly responsible for the loss of recognition for American culture. Let alone, that it comes off as patronizing to immigrants.

The fact that many immigrants do not consider themselves Americans -which is being misconstrued as a sign of ungratefulness towards their host country- actually stems from the recognition that the vast majority of immigrants have for American culture. The lack of recognition for American culture comes from, unfortunately, Americans themselves, and not from immigrants who are slapped with culture shock upon their arrival and reminded everyday of the cultural differences between the society they were raised in and the society they now live in. If anyone recognizes American culture, it's immigrants, because they're outsiders coming into American culture with a fresh pair of eyes. So as far as this aspect of your argument is concerned, you're misdirecting your anger at the wrong people and are grossly simplifying the subject of cultural and national identity. Not considering oneself American does not mean that there is hatred/ungratefulness towards America or an unwillingness to integrate and embrace American culture. If you -for example- were to move to Japan tomorrow for economic reasons, chances are you wouldn't suddenly start considering yourself Japanese, and you probably will never consider yourself Japanese. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're ungrateful towards Japan and don't respect the indigenous culture there. Likewise, someone born and raised in another country but has moved to the United States, may never consider himself American. This doesn't mean that he hates the United States, disrespects American culture, or is ungrateful towards his adopted country. And -believe it or not- many immigrants find it extremely patronizing and pretentious when Americans offer excessive attention to immigrant cultures. Again, this goes back to the modernist paradigm that stipulates non-Americans as "ethnic" and Americans as "normal" or "non-ethnic".

I'm terribly sorry that you have such terrible neighbors, they sound like horrible people to deal with, but they are in no way characteristic of all Mexicans. I know plenty of immigrants myself (Mexicans as well as other nationalities), and most of them have embraced American culture, even if they do not consider themselves Americans. I think your frustrations from having to deal with your difficult neighbors have negatively impacted your image of immigrants -particularly illegal immigrants- to the point that you may no longer be able to rationally approach this subject. Again, I want to make it clear that opposing restrictions on immigration on the argument that immigration controls are "racist" or that "we are a nation of immigrants", is naive and ignorant. However, there is a gross misunderstanding of immigrants on your part, and I'm talking about the vast majority of immigrants who are decent people, not the horrible neighbors you have to deal with. You are also underestimating most immigrants' respect and embrace for their host culture and are neglecting to recognize the culture shock immigrants experience and the major mental and social effort that they make in order to adjust to a new culture.

 

[Yukon]

I sympathize with your plight. I'm not joking hwhen I say stop non-white immigartion. I mean it. I despise the people you have described.

Yukon, I live right next door to illegals, and that is no joke. They threaten to kill me, but they somehow get away with it. All those wonderful folks I can't comprehend glorify or worship Hispanic culture. I don't understand that,I just report it. To say I don't understand it, given the SHIT I have seen them dole out is an understatement. Crime. Murder, drugs, and much more. Overcrowding, squalor and the suspicion , you can't innumerate or imagine it until you live the fucking nightmare that America has become. Unless you are an other Anglo elitist that WON"T live with these wonderful illegal immigrants. Oh, can't get yer hands dirty and all that. But, yes, they defend them to the bloody grave. Well, so they would make it sound, anyway.

 

[morpheus]

I sympathize with your plight. I'm not joking hwhen I say stop non-white immigartion. I mean it. I despise the people you have described.

That's a completely absurd logic of yours. Are you saying that all Chinese immigrants in Vancouver and Toronto are similar to SW2SILVERQUASI's neighbor's? Will they threaten to kill you if you walk through Toronto's Chinatown? I hope you realize the absurdity of your preposterous generalizations. Do you even have any experience with Mexican immigrants? There aren't very many in Canada; have you ever met one? Or are you just accepting everything SW2SILVERQUASI is telling you at face value, with not one ounce of critique?

And don't take it so personally if an immigrant doesn't consider himself American/Canadian...that's because he's NOT an American/Canadian. He's from another country. That does not mean that he's ungrateful towards his adopted country or disrespects the local culture. As I already mentioned in my previous post, here in the United States at least, immigrants tend to be more respectful of the local culture than the locals, and that's because the locals have embraced this modernist idea that there is no local culture and no local traditions.

When you apply your rigidly simplified standards to national identity, you're reducing the complexity of American and Canadian cultures. As I said earlier, if you were to move to, say, Mexico or China, it's a safe bet you wouldn't consider yourself Mexican or Chinese. So why should the reverse be any different? Are you accepting the fringe-liberal viewpoint that America and Canada don't have a culture? And this isn't a "racial" thing either. There are countless White immigrants in the US and Canada who don't consider themselves American or Canadian either. I've met countless Brits living in Canada who consider themselves Brits not Canadians, and the same goes for people from Poland, Italy, Portugal, Argentina, Serbia, Croatia, Greece, Ukraine, Russia, Germany, Uruguay, Austria, Spain, Lebanon, and [gasp] Canadians living in the United States (believe it or not CANADA is a major source of immigrants to the United States). Their American-born or Canadian-born kids, however, do consider themselves partly American/Canadian and partly Polish/Italian/German/Greek/Ukrainian/British/whatever, and the grandkids consider themselves fully American or Canadian. As time passes, each successive generation is more detached from the country/culture of origin, and has deeper roots in the host country. And the same is happening in the United States with Mexican immigrants.

So get over your misinformed and prejudiced views.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

You presume that the liberals are supportive of going soft on liberals despite the fact that Bush II and Teddy Kennedy were behind the latest legislation regarding them?

And you expect us to take your ignorance seriously?

Conservatives want to put this issue on bleeding heart liberal groups and/or Democrats who want to win the hispanic vote.

While these people might be defenders of illegal immigrants, they are not the ones keeping them here in this country.

This isn't an illegal immigrant problem, this is an illegal employer problem.

If people stopped hiring them, they'd go home tomorrow.

Via Condios Muchacho's.

Because seniorita's don't caro when there's no denero,

It is the government's role to enforce the law. Period. How many other laws do you or your employer go around enforcing? If you are going to make employers responsible for enforcing the law, then provide them a web site where they can type Julio's name and SSN in and see if he's here legally.

But, instead, the Dems killed that provision. WHY???

I didn't realize that every Hispanic's name is Julio? Thanks for the clarification

 

[Agnapostate]

Bottom line, let's hire legal immigrants..not illegal. This land of diversity was founded on legal aliens.

"Legal aliens" of times past effectively practiced the same style of immigration that current illegals do, in that they decided to make the journey and they made it, without extensive burdening through restrictive quotas and "documentations."

 

[Yukon]

The most common **** name is Jesus...pronounced "HAY ZEUS"

 

[Meister]

Bottom line, let's hire legal immigrants..not illegal. This land of diversity was founded on legal aliens.

"Legal aliens" of times past effectively practiced the same style of immigration that current illegals do, in that they decided to make the journey and they made it, without extensive burdening through restrictive quotas and "documentations."

In this day and age, Agnus, we do have laws on the books for immigration. So I guess we should deal with the here, and now...so keep it real

 

[Agnapostate]

In this day and age, Agnus, we do have laws on the books for immigration. So I guess we should deal with the here, and now...so keep it real

Then since you clearly have an interest in deterring illegal immigration, I suggest that your primary focus should be on the elimination of trade liberalization.