Questioning Isra-El

[JBeukema]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_T61BstBqQ]YouTube - ‪Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?‬‏[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

YouTube - Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?

So, what was that toob crap about?

 

[alexa]

YouTube - ‪Are Criticisms of Israel Anti-Semitic?‬‏

Of course the video is correct. Is there any question?

The stealth like censorship of intellectual thought in the US which has resulted from buying this 'new antisemitism' propaganda was very astutely seen when all your politicians, Republicans Democrats and Liberals stood up and raucously applauded a right wing Nationalist leader....something the US should think about if it still values free speech so much. What we can see is that the fear of loss of job or position or even being labelled antisemetic from people who are not, is just as effective at controlling their behaviour as fear of violence.

Obviously Nationalism and far right policies do not have a good reputation so in their own right need to be carefully analysed but possibly for most people there is an unnoticed extra dimension to this which is not good for regular Jews. That is, if the Israeli Governemnt claims to speak for all Jews or rather if the Israeli government chooses to stereotype all Jews as in agreement with Netanyahu, which is the reality of talking criticism of Israel as antisemitism, then the there is danger of a backlash.

Having by with this propaganda of 'new antisemitism' overstepped the boundaries, those uneducated in this area then believe that ,for instance Cast Lead, has the approval of all Jews. The rent a thug among them then go on to indiscriminately attack Jewish property and sometimes even people. We saw this everywhere including the US after Cast Lead.

Using the concept of discrimination to enforce censorship then has the consequence of being likely to increase antisemitism. It does exactly what prejudice does, stereotypes all Jews to being alike in favour of settlements, ethnic cleansing and depriving the Palestinians of even the basics of human rights.

Many people believe that this is actually what the government of Israel wants. The Israeli government, they believe, want Jews to suffer from antisemitism so that they will all go to Israel, which of course will then need to take over more land which does not belong to them, all because of the awful antisemitism in the world.

However, Hello, doesn't work. Jews themselves started criticism Israel. At first those who had even lost relatives in the Holocaust were called 'self hating' or even antisemetic, but they held to it and nowadays many Jews are among the most critical of Israel, not because they are self hating or antisemetic but because they have a more liberal perspective, believe in human rights and justice and are not desperately keen on right wing Nationalism.

Criticising a countries political stance is Politics, nothing else. Not allowing intellectual argument is Censorship, nothing else. Pretending all Jews think alike is itself antisemetic.

 

[Truthseeker420]

I made an anology which included Hitler on one of my threadfs then jokingly said maybe I was too hard on Hitler and the very next post some accused me of being a Jew Hater. Americans are brainwashed by the zionists.

 

[Sunni Man]

The brainwashing of America starts in grade school when kids are forced fed the Holocaust myth.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

This thread is an example of the problem.

Every country does weird self centered stuff. Israel is like all other countries in that regard. However, there is a world of difference in questioning a stupid act by Israel, and using jew hatred or any particular event to justify jew hatred to question the existence of Israel.

How about moving the question forward? Do we Question Germany? Question Russia? Rwanda? Cambodia? Burkina Faso? Monaco?

It is perfectly reasonable to hold Israel to a high standard. Given their general attitude, even a higher standard might be arguably sensible. However making the discussion start from their existence as a jewish state, and and holding no one else to any kind of standard at all make folks doubt your bona fides.
What standard do you require of Egypt? Of Syria? Of France? Of Equador?

 

[alexa]

The brainwashing of America starts in grade school when kids are forced fed the Holocaust myth.

The holocaust is well documented. What was it at least 11 million people murdered. Gays, Jehovah's Witnesses, Romani Gypsies, political prisoners, the mentally ill and Jews. Far too many people witnessed it and stayed alive to tell.

The holocaust happened and it was one of the biggest disgraces this world has ever known and we do well to make sure nothing of that sort ever happens again to anyone...

I certainly believe that without the holocaust Israel would not have come into being - there would not have been the interest from Jews themselves.

That being said, now Israel is here and it is coming up to 70 years since the holocaust, it does not have a great reference to the current problems.

 

[alexa]

This thread is an example of the problem.

Every country does weird self centered stuff. Israel is like all other countries in that regard. However, there is a world of difference in questioning a stupid act by Israel, and using jew hatred or any particular event to justify jew hatred to question the existence of Israel.

How about moving the question forward? Do we Question Germany? Question Russia? Rwanda? Cambodia? Burkina Faso? Monaco?

It is perfectly reasonable to hold Israel to a high standard. Given their general attitude, even a higher standard might be arguably sensible. However making the discussion start from their existence as a jewish state, and and holding no one else to any kind of standard at all make folks doubt your bona fides.
What standard do you require of Egypt? Of Syria? Of France? Of Equador?

I was not talking about people who are genuinely antisemetic but only about the question of freedom of intellectual thought. With regard to what you say above you get things back to front. The US is not going to applaud any other country disregarding international law and colonising another country in this day and age.

It is not that there is a higher demand from Israel, it is that there is a lower demand.

 

[Jos]

This thread is an example of the problem.

Every country does weird self centered stuff. Israel is like all other countries in that regard. However, there is a world of difference in questioning a stupid act by Israel, and using jew hatred or any particular event to justify jew hatred to question the existence of Israel.

How about moving the question forward? Do we Question Germany? Question Russia? Rwanda? Cambodia? Burkina Faso? Monaco?

It is perfectly reasonable to hold Israel to a high standard. Given their general attitude, even a higher standard might be arguably sensible. However making the discussion start from their existence as a jewish state, and and holding no one else to any kind of standard at all make folks doubt your bona fides.
What standard do you require of Egypt? Of Syria? Of France? Of Equador?

Does Israel respect and abide by the International agreements?
You know, like The United nations resolutions?
The Geneva conventions?
International Maritime law?

 

[peach174]

The brainwashing of America starts in grade school when kids are forced fed the Holocaust myth.

Oh yeah, all of our American World War II Vets were liars.

 

[Sunni Man]

The brainwashing of America starts in grade school when kids are forced fed the Holocaust myth.

Oh yeah, all of our American World War II Vets were liars.

Not "all" WWII vets fought in Europe.

Half or more were in the Pacific against Japan.

My father was with a unit in Italy and never mentioned the so called holocaust.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

The brainwashing of America starts in grade school when kids are forced fed the Holocaust myth.

Oh yeah, all of our American World War II Vets were liars.

Not "all" WWII vets fought in Europe.

Half or more were in the Pacific against Japan.

My father was with a unit in Italy and never mentioned the so called holocaust.

"So-called"? My dad's parents, 2 sisters and brother were among the millions murdered by that monster Hitler.

 

[peach174]

Your calling my Father a liar and all of the troops that were there. He was with Patton's Army and he was there and did see those God awful camps and has the pictures to prove it.
You are one pathetic American Sunni to believe the lies about this.

 

[Sunni Man]

"So-called"? My dad's parents, 2 sisters and brother were among the millions murdered by that monster Hitler.

Sorry to hear that; if even one jew was murdered, it was a tragedy.

Hitler had offered to let the jews leave because he could see that they were in danger.

But the Zionist leadership blocked that because they needed victims.

So that after the war the guilt ridden West would award the Jews the land of Palestine.

 

[Sunni Man]

Your calling my Father a liar and all of the troops that were there. He was with Patton's Army and he was there and did see those God awful camps and has the pictures to prove it.
You are one pathetic American Sunni to believe the lies about this.

I don't understand why questioning the so called holocaust is considered unAmerican by some people?

Once again; I believe that our troops saw the camps and large numbers of bodies.

But there wasn't gas chambers as later claimed and not all of the bodies were jewish.

 

[docmauser1]

Of course the video is correct.

Of course, not.

The stealth like censorship of intellectual thought in the US which has resulted from buying this 'new antisemitism' propaganda was very astutely seen when all your politicians, Republicans Democrats and Liberals stood up and raucously applauded a right wing Nationalist leader....something the US should think about if it still values free speech so much. What we can see is that the fear of loss of job or position or even being labelled antisemetic from people who are not, is just as effective at controlling their behaviour as fear of violence.

Nice drivel in view that the only difference between Bush and Obama is, according to B.Rubin, that "when Bush said or did something dumb or dangerous he was denounced by media and opinion makers. When Obama does the same thing, he’s praised for his brilliance."

Obviously Nationalism and far right policies do not have a good reputation so in their own right need to be carefully analysed but possibly for most people there is an unnoticed extra dimension to this which is not good for regular Jews.

So, we learn that there's good nationalism and bad nationalism, with arab nationalism being the former, of course. Bth., who was that idiot, who declared Netanyahu as far right?

 

[peach174]

Never mind all of the pictures that were taken by Russia and Allied troops of the cans.
And was used in the trials that they held for crimes against humanity.

 

[JBeukema]

Never mind all of the pictures that were taken by Russia and Allied troops of the cans.
And was used in the trials that they held for crimes against humanity.

View attachment 13537



View attachment 13538

You got a point? Zyklon B was a pesticide. It was not unusual for it to be used for delousing. The Allies admit it was used for delousing linens and such. That is why the delousing chambers feature Prussian Blue.

In fact, the official story claims that

In quantitative terms, more than 95% of the Zyklon B delivered to Auschwitz was used for delousing

Zyklon B - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem with claiming that so many were killed in 'gas chambers' with Zyklon B (other than simply how long it takes to walk people into the chambers and remove the corpses, which would make it quite difficult to achieve the rates of death that are claimed) is that there is no Prussian Blue staining in the alleged gassing chambers, which indicates that Zyklon B could not have been used could not have been used in these chambers in the quantities necessary for gassing the numbers claimed.

It's all about numbers. The plaque at Auschwitz was changed, lowering the number allegedly killed at the camp by some 1.4 Million, if memory serves. Yet somehow 6-1.4 = 6; the 'Six Million' number remained unchanged as the official total count of dead Jews.

Where'd this 'six million' number come from? It would seem to be based on census information from the American Jewish Yearbook, which alone raises questions about accuracy and impartiality. On top of this is an obvious flaw:

According to the American Jewish Yearbook, the Jewish population of Europe was about 9.5 million in 1933 [Six years before the war began]. In 1950 [five years after the war ended], the Jewish population of Europe was about 3.5 million.

Jewish Population of Europe in 1945

So they assume the entire decline is of being killed by Nazis. There is no mention of other (including natural) causes of death, nor of declining birth rates, nor of immigration, nor of persons who might have ceased identifying as Jews (keep in mind that [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Jewish-Soldiers-Descent-Military/dp/0700613587"]Jews served in the German military during Hitler's rule[/ame], so the idea that Germany tracked down every single Jew and assimilation was wholly impossible is not accurate), nor of whether the Jewish population in Europe was trending up or down prior to the war.

Then you have the matter of the Holocaust as it's presented. It's all aobut the Jews. From Wikipedia:

The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[2] also known as The Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "calamity"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban,[3] from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored extermination by Nazi Germany throughout Nazi-occupied territory.[4]

No mention of the Roma. Nor of blacks. Nor of homosexuals, nor of the old, nor of cripples, nor of anyone else. Why is this? Because they are not useful; their deaths do not help the Zionist narrative or help them justify their actions today and the artificial creation a Semitic Jewish State in the ME based on vague notion that their 'god' says it belongs to them. Similarly, why are the numbers not to be adjusted for accuracy even when they admit Auschwitz claimed at least one million less than initially claimed? Because six million is a holy number to the Zionists. It is critical to the Zionist faith and if that number changes, it calls into question the justifications put forth for Zionism.

Indeed, this number is older than WWII.

But there is more to the matter than this, because the Holocaust and its 'Six Million' victims has become the central organizing feature of Jewish life in the modern world, in which the Jews are depicted as the Eternal Victims...But this is still only half the story, because the Holocaust is not merely a religious dogma intended to weld the Jewish community together in much the same way that the old-time Judaic religion once did, but it is also a fabulous cash cow...In particular, even 60 years after the end of WW2, the German government is still paying 'reparations'

....


[Quote 1] Jewish prophecies in the Torah require that 6 million Jews must "vanish" before the state of Israel can be formed. "You shall return minus 6 million." That's why Tom Segev, an Israeli historian, declared that the "6 million" is an attempt to transform the Holocaust story into state religion. Those six million, according to prophecy, had to disappear in "burning ovens", which the judicial version of the Holocaust now authenticates. As a matter of fact, Robert B. Goldmann writes: ". . . without the Holocaust, there would be no Jewish State." A simple consequence: Given six million Jews gassed at Auschwitz who ended up in the "burning ovens" (the Greek word holocaust means burned offerings), therefore, the prophecies have now been "fulfilled" and Israel can become a "legitimate state". --Unknown
[Quote 2] Regarding the 'six million' number you should know the following: In the Hebrew text of the Torah prophesies, one can read "you shall return". In the text the letter "V" or "VAU" is absent, as Hebrew does not have any numbers; the letter V stands for the number 6. Ben Weintraub, a religious scientist, learned from rabbis that the meaning of the missing letter means the number is '6 million'. The prophesy then reads: You will return, but with 6 million less. See Ben Weintraub: "The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism", Cosmo Publishing, Washington 1995, page 3. The missing 6 million must be so before the Jews can return to the Promised Land. Jahweh sees this as a cleaning of the souls of the sinful people. The Jews must, on the return to the Promised Land, be clean -- the cleaning shall be done in burning stokes. --A Correspondent



3. EARLIER REFERENCES TO 'SIX MILLION'
A. On page 482 of the article on 'Antisemitism' in the the 10th Edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (1902) is found the words: "While there are in Russia and Rumania six millions of Jews who are being systematically degraded...". As the reader can see, these words appear in the last paragraph of the left hand column of the image reproduced HERE (takes a while for this file to come up). This reference preceeds references to the Six Million of WW2 by approximately 40 years.
B. In the American Hebrew Magazine of October 31, 1919, there appeared an article entitled "The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!" By Martin H Glynn, former governor of the state of New York. This article begins, "From across the sea, six million men and women call to us for help ...". The article was published approximately 20 years before the outbreak of WW2. An image of the complete article is HERE.

Birdman Bryant: History & Origin of the Six Million Number

Kentuckyanna true news: Six Million jews Perished in 1945, 1938, 1921, 1919,

It's roots lie in a form of Kabballah

"These numbers do matter," Hilberg [one of the most prominent Jewish holocaust historians] said. "They also matter for a very simple reason -- call it religious, if you like."[Guttenplan in The Atlantic Monthly, Boston, USA, February, 2000]
​

The Age Old "Six Million" Canard | Wake Up From Your Slumber

As such, it truly is a religiously held doctrine, which is why honest examination if verboten.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Even if one million less Jews died in Auschwitz, thare were many Jews killed in the Soviet Union, where many deaths went unreported. A mass grave was found there only a couple of months ago. Hitler's prime enemy was the Jews. A lot of other "undesirables" were killed also, but the Jews were the main objective. (By the way, you mention blacks. Although Hitler hated them also, there weren't many blacks in Europe at that time.) If other peoples want to publicize their genocides more (like the Armenians, Cambodians, Rwandans, etc.), no one is stopping them. But that doesn't make the Holocaust false.

 

[peach174]

And none of you are adding up that they were executed with guns as well as gas chambers and starvation and medical experiments.
Much more with guns, and then they were burned in Huge piles and ovens.
The evidence at the trials were very well documented.
Thats how you get the huge numbers.
You refuse to accept that Jews have a state and they are there to stay. They aren't going anywhere.
Your doing the same thing as the Palestinians, trying to make them occupiers,when they aren't.
You don't like what the UN did, then take it up with the UN who voted for Jews to have a state.
You all are doing the same thing as what happed back then in Germany. Vilifying them so that they they can be wiped off the face of this earth.
Don't forget, Israel is little Satan and the America is big Satan.
And all of them want both of us gone.
And I'm talking about Iran,Syria,Yemen and Palestinians and all of the terrorists Jihad groups.