Question for those that support sanctuary cities/states.

[JoeMoma]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

 

[miketx]

How?

 

[JoeMoma]

How?

So you support sanctuary cities/states?

 

[miketx]

How?

So you support sanctuary cities/states?

Pretending to not understand. Classic libtard move!

 

[JoeMoma]

How?

So you support sanctuary cities/states?

Pretending to not understand. Classic libtard move!

So you made a libtard move by pretending to not understand the title of the thread! Okay!

 

[Humorme]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

 

[Wyatt earp]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

 

[KissMy]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

 

[JoeMoma]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

Okay.

 

[JoeMoma]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

Are you for open boarders, in other words — everyone is welcome?

 

[Wyatt earp]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

We already have over 500 miles of a wall before Trump took office so what's your point?

 

[antifa]

85% of our crops will rot in the field without illegally migrant workers. They deserve sanctuary in all 50 states.

 

[Slyhunter]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

Are you for open boarders, in other words — everyone is welcome?

he's for open borders.
Not open citizenship.
No welfare, no social system to lure them in, no free lunch.
Everyone free to go anywhere they can afford to get to but with no Federal hand outs to lure them there.

 

[JoeMoma]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

Are you for open boarders, in other words — everyone is welcome?

he's for open borders.
Not open citizenship.
No welfare, no social system to lure them in, no free lunch.
Everyone free to go anywhere they can afford to get to but with no Federal hand outs to lure them there.

That is an opinion I can respect. Are you of a similar opinion?

 

[Slyhunter]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

Are you for open boarders, in other words — everyone is welcome?

he's for open borders.
Not open citizenship.
No welfare, no social system to lure them in, no free lunch.
Everyone free to go anywhere they can afford to get to but with no Federal hand outs to lure them there.

That is an opinion I can respect. Are you of a similar opinion?

only after I've won the lottery.

 

[JoeMoma]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

Are you for open boarders, in other words — everyone is welcome?

he's for open borders.
Not open citizenship.
No welfare, no social system to lure them in, no free lunch.
Everyone free to go anywhere they can afford to get to but with no Federal hand outs to lure them there.

That is an opinion I can respect. Are you of a similar opinion?

only after I've won the lottery.

PowerBall is estimated at 550 million.
Powerball - Home

 

[WillMunny]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

There is NO Constitutional right for a foreigner to enter America; it's a privilege that can be revoked at any time for any reason. ALL countries enforce their borders, but you liberals scream and yell when America does it because you're self-hating Americans who want to dissolve our sovereignty and give the 3rd world a free ride. You don't even care how open borders affects fellow Americans.

 

[Humorme]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

 

[Humorme]

The OP wishes to shred the US Constitution & institute a Police State to kill, arrest or remove undesirables, build a wall & put the country on lock down.

It's like swatting flies with a sledge hammer.

 

[JoeMoma]

How should illegal immigration be controlled? It seems that the mindset of the sanctuary city/state crowd is that once a person arrives illegally (or over stays a visa), that person should be welcomed to stay, establish permanent residence, become legally employed, receive government services, acquire a driver’s license, enroll children into public schools, and eventually seek citizenship and have the right to vote. In other words, the illegal immigrant is to be granted all the rights, benefits and protections as legal immigrants. How can we control immigration if we don’t treat illegal immigration as a crime and allow illegal immigrants to simply blend into our society? Also, if you believe we should have open boarders making all immigrants legal, just say so!

You asked for it so no name calling. I am right of center and have never voted for nor supported a liberal, democrat, or anyone left of center.

In my view there should be no such thing as "illegal immigration." As one of our founding fathers put it:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

Early in America's history, people came from every corner of the earth to take advantage of opportunities willingly offered. At the same time, nobody except whites could become citizens.

Why we think that everybody that washes up on our shores should become a citizen, get a free education, be afforded welfare, be extended the privilege of voting and force their beliefs down our throats has always been a mystery to me - ESPECIALLY when those people fled somewhere to come here.

I've been kicked like a dog on these discussion boards because those advocating the ultimate POLICE STATE cannot see the end game for which they are fighting. Let us pretend that you win.

You build a wall. You kick out all the undocumented foreigners (you really want to call them expletive deleted) but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've never been arrested much less convicted of a damn thing. So, anyway you kick them out along with their America born children. Lock the door on the wall and throw away the key. Problem solved. Right? Wrong.

The American born children of foreigners are American citizens whether we like it or not - agree with it or not. You send them back south of the border and in a few years they start showing up at the border with their Socialist Surveillance Number ...ooops. "Social Security Number" and a birth certificate. They want to come home. Sorry guys, you can't keep them out. They are American citizens and you cannot challenge their citizenship (ex post facto laws are prohibited in the Constitution.)

So, they start coming here in droves. They no longer speak English; they have no family support system (you deported that family); they will most likely have no money, education or job skills. Now what do you do? I've been asking this for a dozen or more years and have never gotten a direct / honest / realistic answer.

You can give me all that "open border" paranoia all you want, but that is only one question I have to counter you with. I do have well reasoned responses for you, IF we can get past the name calling, shouting, false allegations, the usual banter that ensues.

I have more questions along with a realistic way to eliminate the issue altogether.

but, you call them "illegal aliens" when they've neverbeen arrested much less convicted of a damn thing




What kind of retarded thinking is that?


They cross our borders illegally they are criminals


They over stay their visas they are criminals

No sir, they absolutely are NOT criminals. What's retarded in this country are stupid people who ignore the Constitution of the United States and some fundamental principles. I keep quoting Tom Paine, one of our country's founders. When it comes to anti-immigrants, they can't understand it. Let me repeat it, then I'll explain it to you:

"An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty. It leads men to stretch, to misinterpret, and to misapply even the best of laws. He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." A Dissertation on the First Principles of Government (1795)

The FIRST misapplication of the law is that insist on calling undocumented foreigners "illegal aliens" and assure us they are criminals and so forth. They take the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty / presumption of innocence and toss it out the window.

When that precedent is used on them, they scratch their heads and if it happens to be them, they are really pissed with the LEO community. People are raging mad in the United States at the LEOs. How can they beat people in the streets and even shoot them without due process?

The real reason that stuff happens is that the anti-immigrant lobby and the Tea Party types envision a total POLICE STATE for America. They love the idea of cops watching them 24 / 7 / 365. They like the idea of the pee test, blood test, driver's license, Socialist Security Number ...ooops "Social Security Number," birth certificate, criminal background check, credit check, drones in the sky and zero constitutional protections against warrant-less search and seizures.

Under our constitutional / legal / dejure U.S. Constitution everybody is entitled to the equal protection of the laws. See the 14th Amendment. IF a foreigner is a criminal absent due process then EVERY AMERICAN IS GUILTY OF SOME KIND OF CRIME. A cop once told me that if you don't have a record, it's only because you haven't been caught yet.

I can thank people like you for this atmosphere of fear, paranoia, and what is little more than a National Socialist approach to the issues at hand... all which was a great deflection to keep from answering MY question.

While it is true under our law, one is presumed innocent until proven guilty by due process, that doesn't determine the reality of one's guilt or innocence. For example, I could possibly wear a mask and rob a bank and never be caught. Am I guilty of robbing the bank since I've never been convicted? Of course I am (if I were to have actually robbed a bank); the act of robbing the bank is what makes me guilty of robbing the bank. Likewise, if a person enters the country illegally to stay, that act makes the person an illegal immigrant.


Some posters to this thread are for open borders. I can respect that. For those that are for open boarders, they should be for changing the law to reflect that. We as a country need to decide whether we are going to have laws to restrict immigration or not!