Zone1 Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war - should the west show restraint and force the Ukranians in negotations?

[peacefan]

Nobody drove the bear anywhere. The genocidal bear couldn't stay within his own borders. I'm really not interested in any more of your regurgitated putin propaganda.

well i'm just interested in seeing that war end dude. one way or another.
that could be thru peace negotiations, or a rapid sustained buildup of western military aid to Ukraine.
take your pick, but please take the time -for the sake of those involved over there, and possibly all of us- to properly motivate your choice.

 

[GLASNOST]

Putin warns that sending Western troops to Ukraine risks a global nuclear war - should the west show restraint and force the Ukranians in negotations?​

"Restraint"? "Force"? False propaganda. It's the US that is forcing Ukraine into this war.

The West should just go home and take their toys with them. If the US wants a war they should make one inside their own country and let the rest of us get a box of popcorn, Milk duds, Butter Fingers, a Pay Day, Baby Ruth, Nestle Crunch, Mr. Goodbar, a Zero Bar, Smith Brother's Cherry cough drops, and a large Pepsi Cola with ice.

 

[peacefan]

"Restraint"? "Force"? False propaganda. It's the US that is forcing Ukraine into this war.

how so? it was the Ukrainians that asked for bullets instead of evacuation of their government at the start of this war, and they've not let up in that attitude at all.

 

[GLASNOST]

"Restraint"? "Force"? False propaganda. It's the US that is forcing Ukraine into this war.

how so?

I’ll tell you how …..

it was the Ukrainians that asked for bullets instead of evacuation of their government at the start of this war, and they've not let up in that attitude at all.

….. take a third-rate dupe, add an American-orchestrated political coup, and mix it with CIA coercion scripting.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Yes, the United States should pressure Ukraine to negotiate a settlement.

Up until now, I’ve said that the United States should just stay out of it. But now, with Europeans about to Forrest Gump their way into a global Thermo nuclear war, the United States would be obviously affected by that, and so it’s time to once again impose our will on Europe. something I was really hoping to avoid.

Europeans are like farm animals, normally peaceful and fairly useful. Once every few decades, they go feral, then the United States has to put many of them down.

Loudly announcing in public that nothing is acceptable, except a full Russian withdrawal is fine as the opening position of negotiations.

What Democrats don’t understand is that the opening position negotiations is never the final one. Democrats will bluster about a full Russian withdrawal and stick with that position until the first few megatons land on their headquarters.

Trump said he would settle it in a very short time. I can’t remember if it was a week,, a day or hours, or whatever, but he implied it was very easy to settle. He knows that it will not be. That is his opening position.

Suppose it was a week that Trump promised. Now, if Ukraine delays for three weeks before they accept the negotiated settlement, they can claim that Trump wasn’t pushing them around because they didn’t do it in a week. See how Trump leaves his opponents a face saving way to give him everything he wants? That’s how he wins. That’s how he got Mexico to accept remain in Mexico. That’s how he got other countries to reduce their tariffs. He negotiates to win, not to look good on that evenings news.

That’s what Democrats have never understood. They don’t want to understand because they’re too busy dancing around saying “Trump loves Putin, Trump loves Putin! “

Anyway, we have zero chance of any kind of negotiated settlement while we have Joe Biden and the rest of the Democrats in charge, insisting on ignoring our own border, and spending money on a vain attempt to give Ukraine back their border .

The upside to all this is that Europeans do understand negotiations. They also understand that Trump has the best chance of settling the Russia Ukraine conflict without a global thermal nuclear war. They certainly have no reason to be confident that Joe Biden can do that. So hopefully they are smart enough to wait until January, to start their tank engines.

As if…

 

[GLASNOST]

Up until now, I’ve said that the United States should just stay out of it.

That was your first thought? It was also your best thought.

But now, with Europeans, about to Forrest Gump, their way into a Thermo nuclear war ....

You say 'Europeans' but what you mean to say is NATO which is dominated by the CIA.

the United States would be obviously affected by that, and so it’s time to once again impose our will on Europe.

Read my lips ..... THE WAR WITH UKRAINE IS THE AMERICAN IMPOSITION ON EUROPE.

something I was really hoping to avoid.

... which proves that your hopes (the hopes of the American people) have no voice in Washington, leastways not in the Deep State.

Europeans are like farm animals, normally peaceful and fairly useful. Once every few decades, they go feral. United States has to put many of them down.

You're not paying attention. The "farm animals" (as you say) are collectively called NATO and putting them down is seldom necessary but for occasional nay-sayers such as Joschka Fischer who suddenly disappeared from the political arena after refusing to follow the United Snakes into war with Irak because of CIA lies about WMDs.

Loudly, announcing in public that nothing is acceptable, except a full Russian withdrawal is fine as the opening position of negotiations.

The only acceptable announcement would be for Ukraine to recognize the republics of Luhansk and Donetsk.

What Democrats don’t understand is ...

Ouf! Democrats ... Republicans ..... there's no difference. Just now Trump's side is the good guys but next time it might be the other ones.

Trump said he would settle it in a very short time. I can’t remember if it was a week a day or hours or whatever, but he implied it was very easy to settle. That is his opening position.

I believe that 100%. And I believe him too.

The upside wall, this is that Europeans do understand negotiations. They also understand that Trump has the best chance of settling the Russia Ukraine conflict without a global thermal nuclear war. They certainly have no reason to be confident that Joe Biden can do that. So hopefully they are smart enough to wait until January.

There! You see! Despite your initial BS-oriented comments, we ended up being friends after all.

 

[Donald H]

That was your first thought? It was also your best thought.

You say 'Europeans' but what you mean to say is NATO which is dominated by the CIA.

Read my lips ..... THE WAR WITH UKRAINE IS THE AMERICAN IMPOSITION ON EUROPE.

... which proves that your hopes (the hopes of the American people) have no voice in Washington, leastways not in the Deep State.

You're not paying attention. The "farm animals" (as you say) are collectively called NATO and putting them down is seldom necessary but for occasional nay-sayers such as Joschka Fischer who suddenly disappeared from the political arena after refusing to follow the United Snakes into war with Irak because of CIA lies about WMDs.

The only acceptable announcement would be for Ukraine to recognize the republics of Luhansk and Donetsk.


Ouf! Democrats ... Republicans ..... there's no difference. Just now Trump's side is the good guys but next time it might be the other ones.

I believe that 100%. And I believe him too.

There! You see! Despite your initial BS-oriented comments, we ended up being friends after all.

What have I done? All of a sudden there's a barrage of ignorance on the question of nuclear war! Most of which is a bunch of uninformed denials of facts and 'is not, is not, is nots'!

I think that what's happened is that Americans have somehow learned that Russia has won the war and America is powerless to do anything about it.

Such outrage and grinding of teeth over as little as saving the Ukrainian people. AS IF?

Welcome all, to reality!

 

[Donald H]

Donald is quoting Putin’s ridiculous statistics here as reproduced in RT. In fact Russia’s PPP comes in at 34th in Europe. Its economy is remarkably backward outside of a few big cities, it has been run by incompetent oligarchs and mafias and siloviki for decades, and its people’s overall standard of living is abysmal and is stagnating. It cannot even produce a single competitive major commodity on world markets — no cars, no airplanes, no computers, nothing.

GDP per capita PPP - Countries - List | Europe

This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - GDP per capita PPP. This page provides values for GDP per capita PPP reported in several countries part of Europe. The table has current values for GDP per capita PPP...

tradingeconomics.com

The only problem is Russia has oil, is a fascistic dictatorship, and Putin is trying his best to develop a full “war economy.” But China is not sending weapons and is driving hard bargains when trading with Russia, as is India, so Russia is actually strangling its long suffering people even more than in the past and weakening its defenses elsewhere.

But it is true that Putin now has no interest in negotiating … but only because he sees the U.S. utterly divided and is gambling that Trump will win the next election or that his movement will paralyze our national will. Putin can only survive if he defeats Ukraine and the West, or can convince Russians and his own regime strongmen that he has won.

We should take each of your brave assertions one by one and analyze them thoroughly Tom.

But that's not what we do here is it! Better chance that somehow you'll learn the facts as they stand now.

 

[ding]

I think that what's happened is that Americans have somehow learned that Russia has won the war and America is powerless to do anything about it.

That sounds eerily similar to an argument a Russian stooge would make.

 

[ding]

THE WAR WITH UKRAINE IS THE AMERICAN IMPOSITION ON EUROPE.

Or Europe begging for US assistance because they failed to secure their own energy and military needs.

As near as I can tell this war is about natural gas and Russia's dominant position as the supplier of Europe's natural gas.

 

[GLASNOST]

I think that what's happened is that Americans have somehow learned that Russia has won the war and America is powerless to do anything about it.

Russia won the war even before it was foisted upon them by the CIA. Russia didn't initiate it. Putin did everything possible to prevent it. But he's not a fool. He knows that Zoolinsky is just the latest American puppet who will be used up and spit out by Washington just like all of the other American puppets in Vietnam, in Iran, in the Middle East (in general), in Africa, and in Latin America. In the meantime, Putin is playing his chess pieces deftly and backing the US into a corner without attacking. He knows that the US will be hanging itself and he's giving Washington enough rope to accomplish it. As I've already said:

It's the US that is forcing Ukraine into this war. ..... THE WAR WITH UKRAINE IS THE AMERICAN IMPOSITION ON EUROPE.

 

[Donald H]

That sounds eerily similar to an argument a Russian stooge would make.

This is interesting to read:

Pentagon chief’s ‘Freudian slip’ reveals US war intent – Moscow

Lloyd Austin saying NATO might need to fight Russia directly was a Freudian slip, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has claimed

www.rt.com

Note that Russia knows that it can't invade any Nato countries. Does anybody understand the reason why? If not then I can help. Russia would become a smoking ruins within an hour!

And so is it fair to say that America can't invade Russia?

 

[Donald H]

Russia won the war even before it was foisted upon them by the CIA. Russia didn't initiate it. Putin did everything possible to prevent it. But he's not a fool. He knows that Zoolinsky is just the latest American puppet who will be used up and spit out by Washington just like all of the other American puppets in Vietnam, in Iran, in the Middle East (in general), in Africa, and in Latin America. In the meantime, Putin is playing his chess pieces deftly and backing the US into a corner without attacking. He knows that the US will be hanging itself and he's giving Washington enough rope to accomplish it. As I've already said:

Just FYI, I know the facts but I'm certainly in favour of being used as a backboard for yours. I assume you are likewise.

Note the link I've posted that states clearly by Russia that they can't invade a Nato country.

I don't think any American will care to debate the fact?

 

[2aguy]

ok, but i think we need to be careful in our wording, so as not to enflame things in a tinderbox.


how does working out a peace deal now, with Putin still in power and hungry for the Donbass, get resolved in the Ukranians favor later on?
or did i totally misunderstand you?

This wont be resolved favorably for the ukrainians in the near future.....it will take years after putin is dead......the thing is to freeze his agressiin in place now...and .get the other nato countries to arm up so he cant go farther

 

[GLASNOST]

Note that Russia knows that it can't invade any Nato countries. Does anybody understand the reason why? If not then I can help. Russia would become a smoking ruins within an hour!

You grossly overestimate your pseudo-knowledge. No matter the final outcome Russia will smoke and ruin any nation that makes the challenge.

And so is it fair to say that America can't invade Russia?

You seem to have a childish view of the world. Read my above statement and if it doesn't sink in then you'll just have to learn the hard way.

 

[ding]

This is interesting to read:

Pentagon chief’s ‘Freudian slip’ reveals US war intent – Moscow

Lloyd Austin saying NATO might need to fight Russia directly was a Freudian slip, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has claimed

www.rt.com

Note that Russia knows that it can't invade any Nato countries. Does anybody understand the reason why? If not then I can help. Russia would become a smoking ruins within an hour!

And so is it fair to say that America can't invade Russia?

First of all Russia's conventional military is a joke and wouldn't get very far trying to invade NATO countries. So nevermind the nuclear threat. Secondly, if you believe that Russia is precluded from invading NATO countries because of fear of nuclear threat, then they would also fear launching nukes because of fear of nuclear threat. So nevermind the nuclear threat. And lastly, the US is the least imperialist super power in the history of mankind and has no desire to invade Russia. So again, nevermind the nuclear threat.

It's like you are incapable of intelligent thought.

 

[GLASNOST]

Just FYI, I know the facts ..

No, you don't. Your source of info is the CIA-endorsed MSM headlines. My advice is for you to keep a low profile.

 

[ding]

This is interesting to read:

Pentagon chief’s ‘Freudian slip’ reveals US war intent – Moscow

Lloyd Austin saying NATO might need to fight Russia directly was a Freudian slip, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has claimed

www.rt.com

Do you get all your news from RT.com?

 

[Donald H]

And so the fact that Russia can't invade any Nato country without Russia becoming a smoking parking lot, blows a big hole in US propaganda.

Russia is strictly limited by US power to stick to destroying the Ukraine, a non-Nato country.

No matter whether or not the same applies to America invading Russia. We can comfortably assume that America is powerful enough to stop all of Russia's and China's incoming!

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

eagle1462010

Read my lips ..... THE WAR WITH UKRAINE IS THE AMERICAN IMPOSITION ON EUROPE.

Bullshit. You completely ignore the strength and determination of Ukrainian nationalism, and also Ukraine’s now increased hatred for Russia. Ukrainian leaders knew from history that the Russia would never let them be genuinely free. They were not so stupid as to believe that their own struggle — without outside help from the West — could triumph over Russia’s despotism.

Europe may well have to impose its own will on the U.S. and independently arm Ukraine … if the U.S. abandons Ukraine to the tender mercies of “Mother(fucker) Russia.”

Putin-admiring Trump’s influence among our public and echoing propagandists like Tucker Carlson have convinced fools that even defensive aid to Ukraine — a sovereign internationally recognized country invaded by Russia — is somehow like another U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, or like our invasion and occupation with half a million soldiers in the losing war in Vietnam.

This is madness. Indeed, were it Trump “standing up” to Russia’s aggression and desire to destroy Ukraine, most Republicans would support him without a qualm. But Trump has long been a crazy admirer of strong-men like Putin, XiJinping and even Kim Jong-un.

Germany in the past has sometimes stood up to oppose U.S. imperial adventures in the Middle East and elsewhere, as did France at certain times — and both were condemned by “patriotic” Republican warmongering fools for their efforts. Of course Europe must defend its own interests should the U.S. abandon NATO and more closely ally with dictator Putin under a future Trump Administration.

Now with Scandinavian countries reinforcng NATO, and Trumpster lunacy almost completely paralyzing U.S. national will to stand up to the Czar in Moscow, we can hope Ukraine and European NATO countries come together to at least stop Putin from “accomplishing all his goals” in destroying Ukraine and seizing the majority of it.

Do not doubt that Russia wants Odessa, Kharkiv, Kherson, and many, many other cities outside of the areas it has claimed to have “annexed” to Russia — some of which he does not yet entirely control. Indeed, Putin really wants to take Kiev itself, and that was the very purpose of his original invasion … so Russia can eradicate “Nazis” and all those who refuse to accept Russia as “Big Brother.”