Putin: Su-24's Black Box to Reveal Truth About Jet Shot Down by Turkey

[montelatici]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

When?

Opinion: Putin's breathtaking lies about Russia - CNN.com


Putin says: "The Bolsheviks, for a number of reasons -- may God judge them -- added large sections of the historical South of Russia to the Republic of Ukraine. This was done with no consideration for the ethnic makeup of the population, and today these areas form the southeast of Ukraine. Then, in 1954, a decision was made to transfer Crimean Region to Ukraine. ... What matters now is that this decision was made in clear violation of the constitutional norms that were in place even then."

Once again, Putin's historical myopia is breathtaking: Nikita Khrushchev's decision to grant Crimea to Ukraine was as constitutional as anything any Soviet Communist leader did in the entire period of the USSR's existence. The Soviet Union rested on illegality and the systemic violation of human and civil rights. If Khrushchev was wrong, then that's only because the USSR was wrong and should never have been created in the first place.

Unsurprisingly, there is no room in this narrative for the nation that Russian imperialism almost managed to annihilate -- the Crimean Tatars. Russia conquered the Crimean Tatar khanate in 1783. Afterward, the Russian authorities forced the Tatars out of their ancestral homeland and replaced them with settlers from Russia.

Tens of thousands of Tatars died or were killed; some two-thirds had to leave the Crimea. In 1944, the ethnic cleansing was completed when Stalin expelled the entire Crimean Tatar population -- about 200,000 people -- to Uzbekistan and some other Soviet regions. About half died on the way. It was only in the late 1980s that they began returning to their homeland to find that their land and their homes had been occupied by Russian settlers.

Instead, Putin primarily explains why Crimea matters to Russia: "The graves of Russian soldiers whose bravery brought Crimea into the Russian empire are also in Crimea. This is also Sevastopol -- a legendary city with an outstanding history, a fortress that serves as the birthplace of Russia's Black Sea Fleet ... symbolizing Russian military glory and outstanding valor."

And what of the Crimean Tatars? Here's Putin: "True, there was a time when Crimean Tatars were treated unfairly, just as a number of other peoples in the USSR. There is only one thing I can say here: Millions of people of various ethnicities suffered during those repressions, and primarily Russians."

The mendacity is astounding. The Crimean Tatars were not just "treated unfairly" by some vague force. They were subjected to genocide by a Russian totalitarian empire. Russians also "suffered," but the brunt of the suffering fell, as Yale historian Timothy Snyder describes in "Bloodlands," on Poles and Ukrainians.

Where did Putin lie? He didn't say giving Crimea to Ukraine (when it was a Soviet state) was unconstitutional, he said it was a mistake given that most of the people were Russian.

Posting a propaganda piece does not make your point.

Crimea was nearly 70% Russian ethnically when the Crimean people voted to rejoin Russia.

 

[tinydancer]

As to the protests in Maiden Square? Driven by Pravy Sector and Svoboda. Look them up. They are very special groups.It was a violent overthrow.

See look, just average every day citizens.



Meet the Pravy Sector.

Would you like to meet Svoboda too? Or are you beginning to understand that it is true they are violent ultra nationalists? Here they are in a city called Lviv.

Lviv has a certain notoriety for being a hot bed of violent anti semetic behavior in WWII. Beat up Jewish men in the street. The residents would strip women and beat them.

This is the very sad history of western Ukraine.

 

[Stratford57]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

First of all, I'd like to mention: I've been to Crimea numerous times. Tatars have been always a problem for Crimea: during Soviet times, while being a part of Ukraine and same thing now.

Besides, what did you and all the West know about Putin before he started blowing the sh*t out of ISIS? Western leaders along with all Western propaganda wanted you to believe that:

- Russia and ISIS are the main threats to the world;
- Russian planes are trying to intimidate NATO;
- Putin invaded Ukraine;
- Putin suppresses gays,

.. and so on and on. Aggressor, invader, dictator, monster… As a result of such propaganda mainly all Western taxpayers hated Putin. Only a few were still enjoying Putin’s pictures on the Internet, pictures of a real man…

The trick Western propaganda has been using is telling half of the truth mixed up with enough lies to achieve the goals. Rarely it’s been bothering Western auditoria with publishing Putin’s opinion and the reasons behind it (!). However the people who were watching Russian news and were familiar with what Putin really does and why, they were able to see a deeper picture of events happening in the world. Also he always does what he says. For years Putin was trying to explain to the West: its geopolitical irresponsible games were dangerous. And recent events are just proving how much he was right.

Here is just one example of publishing Putin’s interview with Charlie Rose on Sep 29. Just a day before Russia started bombing ISIS. You can see by yourself: almost half of the interview was left out.

Sott Exclusive: Full unedited text of Vladimir Putin's interview with Charlie Rose: What CBS left out -- Sott.net

The interview contains Putin’s answers about ME, Syrian conflict, ISIS, USA role in all three above, relationship between USA and Russia, situation in Ukraine, Russian gays rights and a lot of other things.

At the end of the interview Charlie Rose said:
CHARLIE ROSE: I enjoyed your speech.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In fact, I am telling you the truth.
CHARLIE ROSE: Americans are going to see you the way they have never seen you. You are more conversational and expressive. It is good, indeed.

 

[MisterBeale]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

When?

{{meta.title}}

The first Big Lie is that Ukraine is such a cauldron of ethnic hatred and violence that Mother Russia was forced to intervene to rescue and protect Russian speakers from their extremist Ukrainian neighbors. False.

Ukrainians, be they first-language Russian or Ukrainian speakers (virtually all speak Russian), would shake their heads, just as would Bavarians when warned they are in danger of ethnic and racial violence at the hands of North Germans. On any stroll in Kiev or other cities, one hears more Russian than Ukrainian. Although the Russian media has likely scoured the record, there are no incidents of Ukrainian-on-Russian ethnic violence. There are no cases of Russian speakers in the east hiding in their cellars from the latest Ukrainian pogrom. Ukrainians do not feel hatred towards Russians. First-hand reports coming out of Ukraine say that Ukrainians, who had regarded Russians as friends and neighbors, for the first time regard them with a sense of loss as “others” (chuzhie).

Russia’s second Big Lie is that Ukraine’s East and South wish to join voluntarily their Russian brethren in a united Russia. False.

Putin cites his Levada Institute polls as proof of the admiration he enjoys among his people. He should therefore accept the results of a scientific poll of more than 2,000 Ukrainian citizens taken during the worst of the Maidan demonstrations, when separatist tendencies would have been inflamed, but before the Russian invasion ignited anti-Russian sentiment. The highly professional poll shows an overwhelming majority of Ukrainian citizens want Russia only as a friendly neighbor with open borders and no visas. Some 12.5 percent want Russia and Ukraine as one country, reaching a high of twenty percent in the East and 25 percent in the Crimean south. An unoccupied Ukraine would not voluntarily join the corrupt and dysfunctional Russia. The Maidan revolution offers a fresh start with a chance of becoming part of law-abiding and prosperous Europe.

The new prime minister of Crimea – installed by the Russian occupation to preside over Crimea’s annexation — is one Sergei “The Goblin” Aksyonov, a purported member of the Crimean underworld, whose pro-Russian party won a whopping four percent of the votes in the last regional elections. Now he purports to represent all Crimea as he barrels through the Crimea with his escort of AK-47-toting Russians (Excuse me, I meant to say Crimean self-defense troops).

The third Big Lie is that the Maidan demonstrators were not ordinary people venting against corruption and mismanagement, but vile, extreme nationalists, anti Semites, and Nazis paid and trained by Hillary Clinton and John Kerry. Having driven out the legitimate president of Ukraine, extremists are poised to take the Ukrainian presidency and parliament. Two presidential candidate hail from the far right. Poor Russia had no choice but to intervene. False.

You know, I read your post with an open mind, until I reached your "Third Big Lie."

The alternative media has told us the story. The time, the photographs, the names, it's all history. Even the motivations for the west funding it all. Everyone knows that truth. I don't know why you are spreading such disinformation. You have proven to be an unreliable poster.

We don't even need to rely on alternative media any more, the establishment media has proclaimed the truth for the love of all the is sacred.

Preparing for War With Ukraine’s Fascist Defenders of Freedom

 

[Stratford57]

Putin must be quite confident about what is inside that black box.

Putin (Dec,3):

We have always deemed betrayal the worst and most shameful thing to do, and that will never change. I would like them to remember this – those in Turkey who shot our pilots in the back, those hypocrites who tried to justify their actions and cover up for terrorists.

I don’t even understand why they did it. Any issues they might have had, any problems, any disagreements we knew nothing about could have been settled in a different way. Plus, we were ready to cooperate with Turkey on all the most sensitive issues it had; we were willing to go further, where its allies refused to go. Allah only knows, I suppose, why they did it. And probably, Allah has decided to punish the ruling clique in Turkey by taking their mind and reason.

Presidential Address to the Federal Assembly

 

[Syriusly]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

When?

{{meta.title}}

The first Big Lie is that Ukraine is such a cauldron of ethnic hatred and violence that Mother Russia was forced to intervene to rescue and protect Russian speakers from their extremist Ukrainian neighbors. False.

Ukrainians, be they first-language Russian or Ukrainian speakers (virtually all speak Russian), would shake their heads, just as would Bavarians when warned they are in danger of ethnic and racial violence at the hands of North Germans. On any stroll in Kiev or other cities, one hears more Russian than Ukrainian. Although the Russian media has likely scoured the record, there are no incidents of Ukrainian-on-Russian ethnic violence. There are no cases of Russian speakers in the east hiding in their cellars from the latest Ukrainian pogrom. Ukrainians do not feel hatred towards Russians. First-hand reports coming out of Ukraine say that Ukrainians, who had regarded Russians as friends and neighbors, for the first time regard them with a sense of loss as “others” (chuzhie).

Russia’s second Big Lie is that Ukraine’s East and South wish to join voluntarily their Russian brethren in a united Russia. False.

Putin cites his Levada Institute polls as proof of the admiration he enjoys among his people. He should therefore accept the results of a scientific poll of more than 2,000 Ukrainian citizens taken during the worst of the Maidan demonstrations, when separatist tendencies would have been inflamed, but before the Russian invasion ignited anti-Russian sentiment. The highly professional poll shows an overwhelming majority of Ukrainian citizens want Russia only as a friendly neighbor with open borders and no visas. Some 12.5 percent want Russia and Ukraine as one country, reaching a high of twenty percent in the East and 25 percent in the Crimean south. An unoccupied Ukraine would not voluntarily join the corrupt and dysfunctional Russia. The Maidan revolution offers a fresh start with a chance of becoming part of law-abiding and prosperous Europe.

The new prime minister of Crimea – installed by the Russian occupation to preside over Crimea’s annexation — is one Sergei “The Goblin” Aksyonov, a purported member of the Crimean underworld, whose pro-Russian party won a whopping four percent of the votes in the last regional elections. Now he purports to represent all Crimea as he barrels through the Crimea with his escort of AK-47-toting Russians (Excuse me, I meant to say Crimean self-defense troops).

The third Big Lie is that the Maidan demonstrators were not ordinary people venting against corruption and mismanagement, but vile, extreme nationalists, anti Semites, and Nazis paid and trained by Hillary Clinton and John Kerry. Having driven out the legitimate president of Ukraine, extremists are poised to take the Ukrainian presidency and parliament. Two presidential candidate hail from the far right. Poor Russia had no choice but to intervene. False.

You know, I read your post with an open mind, until I reached your "Third Big Lie."

The alternative media has told us the story.

by alternative media- you mean the Russian funded propaganda machine you are willing to believe....

 

[Syriusly]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

First of all, I'd like to mention: I've been to Crimea numerous times. Tatars have been always a problem for Crimea: during Soviet times, while being a part of Ukraine and same thing now.

Besides, what did you and all the West know about Putin before he started blowing the sh*t out of ISIS? Western leaders along with all Western propaganda wanted you to believe that:

- Russia and ISIS are the main threats to the world;
- Russian planes are trying to intimidate NATO;
- Putin invaded Ukraine;
- Putin suppresses gays,

.. and so on and on. Aggressor, invader, dictator, monster… As a result of such propaganda mainly all Western taxpayers hated Putin. Only a few were still enjoying Putin’s pictures on the Internet, pictures of a real man…

The trick Western propaganda has been using is telling half of the truth mixed up with enough lies to achieve the goals. Rarely it’s been bothering Western auditoria with publishing Putin’s opinion and the reasons behind it (!). However the people who were watching Russian news and were familiar with what Putin really does and why, they were able to see a deeper picture of events happening in the world. Also he always does what he says. For years Putin was trying to explain to the West: its geopolitical irresponsible games were dangerous. And recent events are just proving how much he was right.

Here is just one example of publishing Putin’s interview with Charlie Rose on Sep 29. Just a day before Russia started bombing ISIS. You can see by yourself: almost half of the interview was left out.

Sott Exclusive: Full unedited text of Vladimir Putin's interview with Charlie Rose: What CBS left out -- Sott.net

The interview contains Putin’s answers about ME, Syrian conflict, ISIS, USA role in all three above, relationship between USA and Russia, situation in Ukraine, Russian gays rights and a lot of other things.

At the end of the interview Charlie Rose said:
CHARLIE ROSE: I enjoyed your speech.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In fact, I am telling you the truth.
CHARLIE ROSE: Americans are going to see you the way they have never seen you. You are more conversational and expressive. It is good, indeed.

And the trick Russian propaganda uses is to flood the internet with Russian spin and falsehoods.

Russia is one of the most corrupt- politically and financially- nations in the world- and Putin has been a part of that corruption from the beginning. His training in the KGB left him well trained for a life of lies and corruption and suppressing political opposition.

 

[montelatici]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

First of all, I'd like to mention: I've been to Crimea numerous times. Tatars have been always a problem for Crimea: during Soviet times, while being a part of Ukraine and same thing now.

Besides, what did you and all the West know about Putin before he started blowing the sh*t out of ISIS? Western leaders along with all Western propaganda wanted you to believe that:

- Russia and ISIS are the main threats to the world;
- Russian planes are trying to intimidate NATO;
- Putin invaded Ukraine;
- Putin suppresses gays,

.. and so on and on. Aggressor, invader, dictator, monster… As a result of such propaganda mainly all Western taxpayers hated Putin. Only a few were still enjoying Putin’s pictures on the Internet, pictures of a real man…

The trick Western propaganda has been using is telling half of the truth mixed up with enough lies to achieve the goals. Rarely it’s been bothering Western auditoria with publishing Putin’s opinion and the reasons behind it (!). However the people who were watching Russian news and were familiar with what Putin really does and why, they were able to see a deeper picture of events happening in the world. Also he always does what he says. For years Putin was trying to explain to the West: its geopolitical irresponsible games were dangerous. And recent events are just proving how much he was right.

Here is just one example of publishing Putin’s interview with Charlie Rose on Sep 29. Just a day before Russia started bombing ISIS. You can see by yourself: almost half of the interview was left out.

Sott Exclusive: Full unedited text of Vladimir Putin's interview with Charlie Rose: What CBS left out -- Sott.net

The interview contains Putin’s answers about ME, Syrian conflict, ISIS, USA role in all three above, relationship between USA and Russia, situation in Ukraine, Russian gays rights and a lot of other things.

At the end of the interview Charlie Rose said:
CHARLIE ROSE: I enjoyed your speech.
VLADIMIR PUTIN: In fact, I am telling you the truth.
CHARLIE ROSE: Americans are going to see you the way they have never seen you. You are more conversational and expressive. It is good, indeed.

And the trick Russian propaganda uses is to flood the internet with Russian spin and falsehoods.

Russia is one of the most corrupt- politically and financially- nations in the world- and Putin has been a part of that corruption from the beginning. His training in the KGB left him well trained for a life of lies and corruption and suppressing political opposition.

And, you have been Syriusly brainwashed to believe that Russian propaganda is anywhere near as sophisticated and pervasive as U.S./Western propaganda.

 

[Vikrant]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

When?

Opinion: Putin's breathtaking lies about Russia - CNN.com


Putin says: "The Bolsheviks, for a number of reasons -- may God judge them -- added large sections of the historical South of Russia to the Republic of Ukraine. This was done with no consideration for the ethnic makeup of the population, and today these areas form the southeast of Ukraine. Then, in 1954, a decision was made to transfer Crimean Region to Ukraine. ... What matters now is that this decision was made in clear violation of the constitutional norms that were in place even then."

Once again, Putin's historical myopia is breathtaking: Nikita Khrushchev's decision to grant Crimea to Ukraine was as constitutional as anything any Soviet Communist leader did in the entire period of the USSR's existence. The Soviet Union rested on illegality and the systemic violation of human and civil rights. If Khrushchev was wrong, then that's only because the USSR was wrong and should never have been created in the first place.

Unsurprisingly, there is no room in this narrative for the nation that Russian imperialism almost managed to annihilate -- the Crimean Tatars. Russia conquered the Crimean Tatar khanate in 1783. Afterward, the Russian authorities forced the Tatars out of their ancestral homeland and replaced them with settlers from Russia.

Tens of thousands of Tatars died or were killed; some two-thirds had to leave the Crimea. In 1944, the ethnic cleansing was completed when Stalin expelled the entire Crimean Tatar population -- about 200,000 people -- to Uzbekistan and some other Soviet regions. About half died on the way. It was only in the late 1980s that they began returning to their homeland to find that their land and their homes had been occupied by Russian settlers.

Instead, Putin primarily explains why Crimea matters to Russia: "The graves of Russian soldiers whose bravery brought Crimea into the Russian empire are also in Crimea. This is also Sevastopol -- a legendary city with an outstanding history, a fortress that serves as the birthplace of Russia's Black Sea Fleet ... symbolizing Russian military glory and outstanding valor."

And what of the Crimean Tatars? Here's Putin: "True, there was a time when Crimean Tatars were treated unfairly, just as a number of other peoples in the USSR. There is only one thing I can say here: Millions of people of various ethnicities suffered during those repressions, and primarily Russians."

The mendacity is astounding. The Crimean Tatars were not just "treated unfairly" by some vague force. They were subjected to genocide by a Russian totalitarian empire. Russians also "suffered," but the brunt of the suffering fell, as Yale historian Timothy Snyder describes in "Bloodlands," on Poles and Ukrainians.

CNN is not a reliable source. It is widely considered to be an Israeli mouthpiece.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The data from the black box of the downed Russian Su-24 bomber will prove that the aircraft was in Syrian airspace when it was attacked by Turkish forces, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday.

Earlier in the day, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu showed Putin the black box, which was recovered in Syria by Russian and Syrian forces.

"As I understand, the flight data recorder will give us the opportunity to understand the Su-24's trajectory from the moment of its take-off to the moment of the crash," Putin said. "This means we will be able to understand where it was [at the moment of the downing] and where the treacherous strike from the Turkish Air Force was dealt."

Putin also said that the black box should be opened only in the presence of international experts.

Putin thanked everyone who participated in the operation to search for and retrieve the black box from Russia's Su-24, which was shot down on November 24 by the Turkish Air Force.

"We must certainly thank our military, the staff of the special forces, search and rescue crews, and Syrian troops for retrieving the recorder, which will certainly help us to understand what happened," Putin said in a meeting with Shoigu.
Putin: Su-24's Black Box to Reveal Truth About Jet Shot Down by Turkey

Britain says it will consider Russia's request for aviation experts to examine data from the black box of a Russian warplane downed over the Turkish-Syria border.

Cameron's office said the two leaders had "agreed that it was important to wait for the investigation to establish what had happened and the prime minister said he would consider President Putin's request to send British experts to assist the investigation."
The Latest: UK to Consider Russian Request for Plane Experts

Stratford, thanks for posting some great articles! Very informative!

 

[tinydancer]

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Yeah- and Russia had nothing to do with the shooting down of the airliner in the Ukraine......

Really- you guys will believe anything the KGB tells you.

Just an FYI. The Ukrainians in the past downed a Russian jet liner. They have a track record.

Now to Turkey. They have been funding al Nusra (AQ) in Syria and buying ISIS oil.

AND NATO has allowed it. Why would I believe anything from the White House AKA The Home of the Whopper when they've been caught out lying regularly?

And why would i believe anything from Putin or Russia when it has been caught lying before?

When?

Opinion: Putin's breathtaking lies about Russia - CNN.com


Putin says: "The Bolsheviks, for a number of reasons -- may God judge them -- added large sections of the historical South of Russia to the Republic of Ukraine. This was done with no consideration for the ethnic makeup of the population, and today these areas form the southeast of Ukraine. Then, in 1954, a decision was made to transfer Crimean Region to Ukraine. ... What matters now is that this decision was made in clear violation of the constitutional norms that were in place even then."

Once again, Putin's historical myopia is breathtaking: Nikita Khrushchev's decision to grant Crimea to Ukraine was as constitutional as anything any Soviet Communist leader did in the entire period of the USSR's existence. The Soviet Union rested on illegality and the systemic violation of human and civil rights. If Khrushchev was wrong, then that's only because the USSR was wrong and should never have been created in the first place.

Unsurprisingly, there is no room in this narrative for the nation that Russian imperialism almost managed to annihilate -- the Crimean Tatars. Russia conquered the Crimean Tatar khanate in 1783. Afterward, the Russian authorities forced the Tatars out of their ancestral homeland and replaced them with settlers from Russia.

Tens of thousands of Tatars died or were killed; some two-thirds had to leave the Crimea. In 1944, the ethnic cleansing was completed when Stalin expelled the entire Crimean Tatar population -- about 200,000 people -- to Uzbekistan and some other Soviet regions. About half died on the way. It was only in the late 1980s that they began returning to their homeland to find that their land and their homes had been occupied by Russian settlers.

Instead, Putin primarily explains why Crimea matters to Russia: "The graves of Russian soldiers whose bravery brought Crimea into the Russian empire are also in Crimea. This is also Sevastopol -- a legendary city with an outstanding history, a fortress that serves as the birthplace of Russia's Black Sea Fleet ... symbolizing Russian military glory and outstanding valor."

And what of the Crimean Tatars? Here's Putin: "True, there was a time when Crimean Tatars were treated unfairly, just as a number of other peoples in the USSR. There is only one thing I can say here: Millions of people of various ethnicities suffered during those repressions, and primarily Russians."

The mendacity is astounding. The Crimean Tatars were not just "treated unfairly" by some vague force. They were subjected to genocide by a Russian totalitarian empire. Russians also "suffered," but the brunt of the suffering fell, as Yale historian Timothy Snyder describes in "Bloodlands," on Poles and Ukrainians.

Where did Putin lie? He didn't say giving Crimea to Ukraine (when it was a Soviet state) was unconstitutional, he said it was a mistake given that most of the people were Russian.

Posting a propaganda piece does not make your point.

Crimea was nearly 70% Russian ethnically when the Crimean people voted to rejoin Russia.

Kiev was prepared to strip Crimea of her autonomy AND one of the first bills passed by the new government was to repeal a law passed in 2012 that guaranteed the use of other languages in the Ukraine. Now the EP freaked and they had to cancel it, but right from the get go the Nazis in Kiev were all set to remove rights and freedoms of others in the Ukraine.

Ultra nationalists? Hah! Kiev nazis. It's no wonder Crimea ran to Mother Russia and the east wants to get as far away from Kiev as they can.

"The deepening crisis in Ukraine involves not only issues of political sovereignty, European integration and Russian hegemony, but also language and its relationship to nationalism and ethnic identity. Immediately after the removal of President Viktor Yanukovych from power on Feb. 22, the Ukrainian Parliament repealed a controversial law passed in 2012 that allowed the use of "regional languages" – including Russian, Hungarian, Romanian and Tatar -- in courts and certain government functions in areas of the country where such speakers constituted at least 10 percent of the population. (In 1991, in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union, the newly independent state of Ukraine established Ukrainian as its sole official language.)

Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has since vetoed that repeal, but the episode has alarmed many of Ukraine’s Russian speakers and others. “Just as the law itself was meant to validate the continued use of Russian in Ukraine for a wide range of activities, the move to cancel that law was perceived as taking away rights enjoyed by the Russian-speaking population, and potentially a sign that there might be growing discrimination against them,” explained Olga Oliker, a security and defense analyst at the RAND Corp."

Watch Your Tongue: Language Controversy One Of Fundamental Conflicts In Ukraine

Watch Your Tongue: Language Controversy One Of Fundamental Conflicts In Ukraine
By Palash Ghosh @Gooch700 On 03/03/14 AT 1:40 PM

 

[Kondor3]

Given just how close to the Turkish border that the Russian fighter-jet was flying, and given how many times the Turks had tried to warn it off...

I find myself wondering if, when the Turkish missile-crew fired their weapon, the Russian jet was, indeed, violating Turkish airspace, but, in the intervening seconds, or minute, or whatever, between the time that the missile was launched, and the time it struck the jet, that the jet had managed to fly back across the border, so that when the missile actually struck, it was in Syrian airspace.

I also find myself wondering whether the type of missile that the Turks used had a self-destruct mechanism. If the answer to that is "No - it did not have a self-destruct mechanism", then, once the weapons is launched, there's no recourse or recall. If the answer is "Yes - it did, indeed, have a self-destruct mechanism", then, it seems likely that the Turkish missile crew were not aware that the Russian jet had flown back across the border again, and that the self-destruct button should have been pushed.

Or, as a variation on that theme, that Turkish military fire-discipline in such circumstances require that the same authority that authorized the launch, must issue the order for self-destruct, and that, failing that, or given that there might not have been enough time to come to that realization and issue and execute the order - that the time-lag for the Turkish chain-of-command worked against the Russian jet and its survival.

Or, of course, the Turks could have just said "Screw it... phukk 'em... they were warned." .

The jet's Black Box will certainly tell us part of the story, but by no means all, nor even, perhaps, the most important part(s) of the story.

 

[montelatici]

The Russian bomber never entered Turkish air space. The Russian aircraft was hit by an air-to-air missile from an F-16. The most current long range air-to-air missile for the F-16s is the AIM-120. It's a "fire and forget" missile, so I doubt it has any "self-destruct" capability.

The flight recorder data will provide all the necessary navigation information that will conclusively prove or disprove the air space incursion issue.

 

[Stratford57]

Stratford, thanks for posting some great articles! Very informative!

Thanks, Jeremiah. The only reason of my presence on USMB is to deliver the truth about Russia and Ukraine (which has been a part of historical Russia). I’m very pleased my posts were not in vain… I've found out that Western Media doesn’t deliver the truth [full truth!] to Americans and Europeans and it’s not fair. Because:

1. Since 2000, when Putin became a president, Russia strictly observes International Law and does everything according to UN Charter.
2. On the contrary, official Washington has been constantly violating International law (before and after 2000).
3. Western propaganda has been paid to make American taxpayers believe: everything official Washington does is good and Russia/Putin are aggressors.

You also may find the following fresh information worth of reading. Dec, 11:

1. The area of influence of the Islamic State terrorist group (outlawed in Russia) is expanding, militants have seized about 70% of Syria’s territory, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said on Friday.
"The Islamic State area of influence is expanding. Militants have seized about 70% of the Syrian territory. The number of terrorists amounts to about 60,000 people," he said.
"In all, our combat aircrafts made some 4,000 sorties and destroyed more than 8,000 facilities of the terrorist military infrastructure," he said.
Islamic State militants seize 70% of Syria’s territory — Russian defense minister

2. Russia has warned against potential threats due to the US nuclear presence in Europe. On Friday, Russian defense minister Sergei Shoigu claimed that the US has deployed about 200 nuclear bombs in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, and Turkey.
Shoigu also pointed out the deteriorating military-political situation in the Middle-East. Shoigu said the aggressive expansion of NATO was another cause of concern for Russia. In just a few years, the number of NATO members has “increased twofold.” Earlier this week, Russia reacted angrily when NATO invited Montenegro to join the Western military alliance. NATO has significantly increased its military presence in eastern European countries to counter Russia.
Russia Claims US Has Deployed 200 Nukes In Europe

3. Assad: Answering a question on what Russian President Vladimir Putin asked for in exchange for helping the Syrian authorities in the fight against the Islamic State (IS) terrorist organization banned in Russia, Assad said: "He did not ask for anything in return for one simple reason — this is not trading." "In fact, normal relations between two countries are based on common interests," Assad stressed. "The issue is what interests do Syria and Russia share? Is Russia interested in growing terrorism in Syria, in the collapse of the Syrian state, in anarchy? No, [Russia] is not interested [in that]," Assad said adding that Moscow "wants stability in Syria, Iraq and in the region as a whole."
"We are located not so far from Russia, and let me also add, not far from Europe," the Syrian president noted. "In this respect, Russia’s activities in Syria represent an act of defending Europe." Assad added that recent terrorist attacks in Europe "are proof that what is going on" in Syria affects Europe as well.
Assad calls Russia’s activities in Syria "act of defending Europe"

 

[Kondor3]

The Russian bomber never entered Turkish air space. The Russian aircraft was hit by an air-to-air missile from an F-16. The most current long range air-to-air missile for the F-16s is the AIM-120. It's a "fire and forget" missile, so I doubt it has any "self-destruct" capability.

The flight recorder data will provide all the necessary navigation information that will conclusively prove or disprove the air space incursion issue.

Thank you.

Correction... no missile battery crew and chain-of-command was involved.

However, we do not know where the Russian plane was, when the air-to-air missile shot was fired, do we?

 

[montelatici]

The Russian bomber never entered Turkish air space. The Russian aircraft was hit by an air-to-air missile from an F-16. The most current long range air-to-air missile for the F-16s is the AIM-120. It's a "fire and forget" missile, so I doubt it has any "self-destruct" capability.

The flight recorder data will provide all the necessary navigation information that will conclusively prove or disprove the air space incursion issue.

Thank you.

Correction... no missile battery crew and chain-of-command was involved.

However, we do not know where the Russian plane was, when the air-to-air missile shot was fired, do we?

We will know exactly where the Russian bomber was at the time of impact and whether it ever crossed into Turkish air space. The location of the Russian bomber at the time of the missile launch can only be extrapolated without additional data.

 

[Kondor3]

The Russian bomber never entered Turkish air space. The Russian aircraft was hit by an air-to-air missile from an F-16. The most current long range air-to-air missile for the F-16s is the AIM-120. It's a "fire and forget" missile, so I doubt it has any "self-destruct" capability.

The flight recorder data will provide all the necessary navigation information that will conclusively prove or disprove the air space incursion issue.

Thank you.

Correction... no missile battery crew and chain-of-command was involved.

However, we do not know where the Russian plane was, when the air-to-air missile shot was fired, do we?

We will know exactly where the Russian bomber was at the time of impact and whether it ever crossed into Turkish air space. The location of the Russian bomber at the time of the missile launch can only be extrapolated without additional data.

And, of course, if the Russian jet was within Turkish airspace at the time of the launch, then it was a 'righteous shoot', yes?

 

[montelatici]

The Russian bomber never entered Turkish air space. The Russian aircraft was hit by an air-to-air missile from an F-16. The most current long range air-to-air missile for the F-16s is the AIM-120. It's a "fire and forget" missile, so I doubt it has any "self-destruct" capability.

The flight recorder data will provide all the necessary navigation information that will conclusively prove or disprove the air space incursion issue.

Thank you.

Correction... no missile battery crew and chain-of-command was involved.

However, we do not know where the Russian plane was, when the air-to-air missile shot was fired, do we?

We will know exactly where the Russian bomber was at the time of impact and whether it ever crossed into Turkish air space. The location of the Russian bomber at the time of the missile launch can only be extrapolated without additional data.

And, of course, if the Russian jet was within Turkish airspace at the time of the launch, then it was a 'righteous shoot', yes?

It would be a legal shoot, but not at all kosher for countries that are not at war. If that were the case, the Greeks would be shooting down Turkish jets on a daily basis.

But, the Russian bomber never ventured into Turkish air space. The flight data recorder will prove that. That's why they are allowing the British to read and present the data.

 

[Kondor3]

...It would be a legal shoot, but not at all kosher for countries that are not at war...

Rather depends upon the severity and frequency and threat associated with repeated incursions or intentional skirtings of the edges, I would think.

...But, the Russian bomber never ventured into Turkish air space. The flight data recorder will prove that. That's why they are allowing the British to read and present the data.

We will know, soon enough, but your point is well taken, and it seems likely that you will be proven correct.

However, if the Russian was 'skirting the edges', a scenario in which the plane was no more than a few hundred meters away, then, the Turks can say it was too close to call, and, in the wake of earlier violations and/or skirting-the-edges brinksmanship, it was an understandable error.

 

[montelatici]

...It would be a legal shoot, but not at all kosher for countries that are not at war...

Rather depends upon the severity and frequency and threat associated with repeated incursions or intentional skirtings of the edges, I would think.

...But, the Russian bomber never ventured into Turkish air space. The flight data recorder will prove that. That's why they are allowing the British to read and present the data.

We will know, soon enough, but your point is well taken, and it seems likely that you will be proven correct.

However, if the Russian was 'skirting the edges', a scenario in which the plane was no more than a few hundred meters away, then, the Turks can say it was too close to call, and, in the wake of earlier violations and/or skirting-the-edges brinksmanship, it was an understandable error.

They could say that, but after claiming what they have claimed, it will be difficult for them to complain if/when their jets skirting the Syria border get shot down by the Russian S-400 batteries. And, you know the Russians will shoot down at one or more Turkish jets before all is said and done. They will get their revenge.