Public Sector Unions = Tax-Hiking Monsters...

[LibocalypseNow]

Latest reports show that these Unions & Leftist protest groups have caused an estimated $7.5 Million in damages in and around the State House complex. So who's going to pay for these damages? Once again the Public Unions are going to try and stick it to the Taxpayers. These groups should be ashamed of themselves for this damage they have caused. I hope the Wisconsin Government presents all of these Union & Leftist groups with the bill. The Taxpayers better not be left holding the bag on this one.

 

[Trajan]

You guys keep missing the key point. There is input from "Party 3". They're called elections.

exactly and the dems from the Wisconsin senate need to come back and vote...right?

No. They're using a perfectly valid parliamentary procedure to block a vote. It's no different from the Republicans filibustering everything that moved in Washington for the last four years.

well there goes that...nice talking to you.....

Heritage can make all the claims they won't, but that doesn't make them true.

its Reason TV ( Reason mag. ) in conjunction with Heritage, but thx for commenting on something you didn't watch.

 

[Political Junky]

It's certainly no coincidence Public Unions spend so much cash on lobbying Government to raise taxes. It's always the Taxpayers who get screwed in the end. I'm not as opposed to Private Sector Unions. But Public Unions only serve themselves and Democrats. They just don't care about Taxpayers. They should be banned from Government.

No, they lobby the government to protect their interest, just as businesses do. Odd you have a problem with workers doing it, but have no problem with corporations doing so.

When or if Businesses push for Tax-Hikes,i rip them too. Public Unions constantly lobby Government to raise Taxes. Obviously that cash goes right into Public Union & Democratic Party coffers. There is no longer a place for Unions in our Government. The Taxpayers always get screwed in the end. Public Sector Unions need to be abolished.

Taxes are at the lowest in a very long time. That's why we're in debt.

 

[martybegan]

You come so close to getting it, then fall back. The key word your entire statement comes in the second sentence. Can. Yes, elected officials can be dependent on labor unions. Just like they can be dependent on other groups of donors. The problem is in thinking this makes public employees unique. It does not. There are tons of groups in society who support candidates looking for protection and aid in event of that candidate's victory. The government can't force you to pay money, unless that's the will of the voters in the district. We have a representative form of government.

On work rules, we agree that the process of hiring/firing public employees could use some streamlining. I'm sure we'd disagree over the level, but that's an issue for another day/thread.

What is missing from your statement is the fact that not all voters vote. The problem is in local elections groups such as public unions can get a larger percentage of thier people to vote, not only to actually come to the polls, but to vote to support those who will support them. This skews thier influence from one person one vote.

The big difference still comes from the fact that other entities such a corporations, or even private unions lack the direct connection of politician to unionized worker. One is the boss, the other the worker. You get a situation where the boss is much more reliant on the worker than the customer for his continued positon. Take a look at a place like New York. Even the Democratic governor realizes the situation is insane.

Choosing to not vote is, in itself, a choice. Stating that unions are different from corporations in the sense that they have a direct connection to workers is a fair point, though I'd argue it's not the most meaningful part of their political activity (unionization is higher in the most liberal parts of the nation, and even then, union households roughly 60-40 for the Democrats). The much bigger role of labor unions in the political discourse is as a fundraising asset for the Democratic Party.

I agree that choosing to vote or not is a choice, and those who complain better be voting or they lose a great deal of respect in my book.

I also agree with the fundraising part. One thing I need to look up would be the overall breakdown of coporate contributions by party vs. the breakdown of union contributions by party.

 

[JFK_USA]

Snip:

"In total, unions spent in excess of $400 million electing Barack Obama in 2008. If the Obama campaign wants to raise $1 billion for the 2012 campaign, they're going to have to do everything they can to get unions on board."

Weekly Standard: Obama's War On The States : NPR

Well Corporations are going to give the Republican candidate 2 billion dollars, so lets call it even.

 

[asterism]

More taxpayers vote in any state than do public sector employees. The taxpayers have more than enough power to elect anyone they want as far as policy towards public sector unions go.

True. Wisconsin proves it, so what's the problem?

 

[martybegan]

Snip:

"In total, unions spent in excess of $400 million electing Barack Obama in 2008. If the Obama campaign wants to raise $1 billion for the 2012 campaign, they're going to have to do everything they can to get unions on board."

Weekly Standard: Obama's War On The States : NPR

Well Corporations are going to give the Republican candidate 2 billion dollars, so lets call it even.

And how much are they going to give to democratic candidates?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Unions are just another very powerful special interest group. They operate in the System we have in place. I'm not so much opposed to Private Unions. However i do think Public Unions should be abolished. They just have too much power now. Time for them to go.

 

[jeffrockit]

Big difference between corps and public sector jobs. Corporations employee's are not paid by taxpayer dollars. The unions are allowed to collective bargain pensions, healthcare and etc with taxpayer money.

You can't be serious!!! You missed the military industrial complex which we all pay for.

And which we all benefit from in security. Share with me how I benefit from a union public sector's pension that they pay little if any into. Tell me how I benefit from a union public sector employee who, on average, pays less than 1/2 of their healthcare than the private sector. What business employees get to hire their their own boss (politicians) that then vote for tax increases in order to pay back their winning elections.
You can't possibly not see how this is a monopoly but one which uses other peoples money to fund.
Even the federal employee's don't get to collective bargain as that too would be a conflict of interest. In the Private sector the unions know that if they are too greedy with their demands, the company that employees their members can and do go out of business, hurting all parties other than the union bosses (think Eastern Airlines). In the Public sector, the union bosses know that the business their members work for won't go out of business as they have their endless stream if taxpayer dollars, all of which their bosses (politicians) continually try to increase.
In the end, the ones that will get hurt are not the union bosses or the politicians because they keep their jobs, but the teachers, police and fireman won't. When the layoffs come, and it looks like they will, the union bosses won't be paying the unemployed workers' electric or gas bill, will they?

 

[rhodescholar]

which taxes, how about your state taxes? you live in NY yes? have your property taxes gone up or that is do you own property and have your prop taxes gone up? I suspect they have, and I can show you proof that say the UT of NY ( United Teachers union) spent $750,000 advocating against a cap on property taxes in NY. Unions have done it in other states too ala tax hikes etc...

Speak of the devil in NY:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/business/09bronxville.html?ref=nyregion

"He doesn’t fault Mayor Marvin or Dr. Quattrone who, in his view, have managed costs well. Instead, like Mr. Pulkkinen, Mr. McBride directs his ire at teacher compensation and at the teachers’ union, the Bronxville Teachers’ Association.

Until the teachers agreed to a partial wage freeze for the current school year, their pay had been rising at 3 to 3.5 percent a year. A typical teacher with a master’s degree and 30 years of service makes nearly $118,000 today. That teacher is entitled to retire with an $80,000 state pension, or 67.5 percent of his or her final salary."

 

[rhodescholar]

Taxes are at the lowest in a very long time. That's why we're in debt.

Compared to when? NYC residents who own homes can pay up to 75% of their income in real estate taxes, income taxes and other fees and taxes on things like phone bills. How is that "undertaxed?"

 

[FreedomAli]

Meanwhile corporate institutions print themselves trillions of dollars in bailout money after they stole Americans' wealth. But those fat cat teachers are "breaking the budget" while multi-national corporations pay almost nothing while conducting sham transfer swaps to hide taxable revenue. Hey! Let's all live like poor Mexicans with 15 people to a two bedroom house in which we take turns sharing a "hot cot" and eating beans.

Corporations, like lawyers, have destroyed this country.

Here is the deal with this message board, if the Bozos on it are patting you on the back, you can bet you are an idiot.

 

[FreedomAli]

Big difference between corps and public sector jobs. Corporations employee's are not paid by taxpayer dollars. The unions are allowed to collective bargain pensions, healthcare and etc with taxpayer money.

You can't be serious!!! You missed the military industrial complex which we all pay for.

And which we all benefit from in security. Share with me how I benefit from a union public sector's pension that they pay little if any into. Tell me how I benefit from a union public sector employee who, on average, pays less than 1/2 of their healthcare than the private sector. What business employees get to hire their their own boss (politicians) that then vote for tax increases in order to pay back their winning elections.
You can't possibly not see how this is a monopoly but one which uses other peoples money to fund.
Even the federal employee's don't get to collective bargain as that too would be a conflict of interest. In the Private sector the unions know that if they are too greedy with their demands, the company that employees their members can and do go out of business, hurting all parties other than the union bosses (think Eastern Airlines). In the Public sector, the union bosses know that the business their members work for won't go out of business as they have their endless stream if taxpayer dollars, all of which their bosses (politicians) continually try to increase.
In the end, the ones that will get hurt are not the union bosses or the politicians because they keep their jobs, but the teachers, police and fireman won't. When the layoffs come, and it looks like they will, the union bosses won't be paying the unemployed workers' electric or gas bill, will they?

Oh, good idea! Spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined and make enemies all over the planet by propping up torture and murder regimes while attacking people who never attacked us and pay for it all with borrowed money from our enemies to the point that we can't even afford the debt, and then tell me how safe we are. You are pretty silly.

 

[mnbasketball]

Teacher Unions especially,have forced Governments to raise Taxes on Citizens for several decades.

and just how you going to prove this one guy? I'll wait right here to see what your talking about though.

If you would like to take a look at how much taxes have raised in the last couple of decades as you say.

The Tax Foundation - Federal Corporate Income Tax Rates, Income Years 1909-2008

 

[Care4all]

It really is shocking & appalling once you realize how many $Billions Public Unions have spent over the years lobbying Government to raise Taxes. They should probably be prosecuted for Rape. It's very sad.

any proof on unions lobbying to RAISE taxes?

 

[jeffrockit]

You can't be serious!!! You missed the military industrial complex which we all pay for.

And which we all benefit from in security. Share with me how I benefit from a union public sector's pension that they pay little if any into. Tell me how I benefit from a union public sector employee who, on average, pays less than 1/2 of their healthcare than the private sector. What business employees get to hire their their own boss (politicians) that then vote for tax increases in order to pay back their winning elections.
You can't possibly not see how this is a monopoly but one which uses other peoples money to fund.
Even the federal employee's don't get to collective bargain as that too would be a conflict of interest. In the Private sector the unions know that if they are too greedy with their demands, the company that employees their members can and do go out of business, hurting all parties other than the union bosses (think Eastern Airlines). In the Public sector, the union bosses know that the business their members work for won't go out of business as they have their endless stream if taxpayer dollars, all of which their bosses (politicians) continually try to increase.
In the end, the ones that will get hurt are not the union bosses or the politicians because they keep their jobs, but the teachers, police and fireman won't. When the layoffs come, and it looks like they will, the union bosses won't be paying the unemployed workers' electric or gas bill, will they?

Oh, good idea! Spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined and make enemies all over the planet by propping up torture and murder regimes while attacking people who never attacked us and pay for it all with borrowed money from our enemies to the point that we can't even afford the debt, and then tell me how safe we are. You are pretty silly.

Can't refute the facts of my post so pick the 1 military comment I responded to and focus on that. Where did I state I want to spend more on the military? Want to try again and stay on the MAIN topic of my post?

 

[Care4all]

70% of the school's spending is not on teachers....what do the administrators do with this 70%? why is only salaries of teachers being picked on? being a teacher is one of the lowest paying jobs for college graduates...some progress over the last 5 years in improving them being under paid in several states but in many other states their compensation is crap, compared to the private sector....they are under paid.

the States had all the money in the world during the housing boom with property prices higher and higher each year...they collected boocoos in property taxes....

seems to me, this is purely a deflection, blaming teachers for the legislatures not seeing past their noses and saving for the hard times that could and did come, instead of spending like drunken sailors on anything and everything.

That's not the teacher's fault...

LOOK FOR a new phrase to replace ''going POSTAL'', one of these teachers is gonna go over the edge with the shit you all are blaming them for and the next decade the new term will be ''Going TEACHER'', hide and watch....

 

[mnbasketball]

Hanity and Rush told him they were doing it so it's got to be true chief.

 

[Care4all]

with or without union money, teachers are the ones that vote, not unions, and there is no way in heck, that most teachers will move to vote for the GOP, not after being demonized by the gop....

the government spent too much money on EVERYTHING...but go ahead and blame teachers.....

yes, only the non thinking, partisan hacks can't see this deflection...

 

[rhodescholar]

70% of the school's spending is not on teachers....what do the administrators do with this 70%?

In some districts it higher than 70%.

why is only salaries of teachers being picked on?

No one I know is focusing only on teachers - I am focusing on ALL public employees.

being a teacher is one of the lowest paying jobs for college graduates..

Teachers in Nassau county, suffolk, and Westchester average in the 6 figures.

some progress over the last 5 years in improving them being under paid in several states but in many other states their compensation is crap, compared to the private sector....they are under paid.

Not according to the BLS or NY Times.

the States had all the money in the world during the housing boom with property prices higher and higher each year...they collected boocoos in property taxes....

Which was erroneously spent on ever more generous benefits for public employees, which are not sustainable.

seems to me, this is purely a deflection, blaming teachers for the legislatures not seeing past their noses and saving for the hard times that could and did come, instead of spending like drunken sailors on anything and everything.That's not the teacher's fault...

And what were they spending all of that money on? Over half of NYC's budget is on welfare and public employee salaries.

LOOK FOR a new phrase to replace ''going POSTAL'', one of these teachers is gonna go over the edge with the shit you all are blaming them for and the next decade the new term will be ''Going TEACHER'', hide and watch....

LOL, my friend, I and a shedload of private sector workers is about to go apeshit on fucking public employee unions. These pieces of shit think they can live in a safe little cocoon while the rest of suffer stress from being overworked, job security issues, lack of retirement funding, etc., - all benefits we do not enjoy but must pay ever higher taxes FOR THEM.

If you are thinking there is potentially riots or a civil war going to break out, just watch what happens over the next few years with REAL unemployment at 20% - NOT the manipulated formula altered 7 times since 1929 - and public employees continuing to push for ever more benefits...

Go see the movie "The Company Men" if you want to get an understanding of the level of anger and frustration we are going through in the private sector watching endless illegals flow into the country collecting benefits immediately, and public employees demanding their "rights" to my money...