Zone1 Protestants don't believe in Purgatory. Me, I don't believe in 30 degree weather...

[nomadic5]

Protestants don't believe in Purgatory. Me, I don't believe in 30 degree weather...

don't believe in traffic jams (esp when I'm on my way to getting coffee!!)

don't believe in liberals

don't believe in abortion

However, I cannot make all those hated things disappear by not believing in them.. If only I could... sigh

Anyhow, there are Scriptures that allude to a place of purgation (cleansing). And you have to be cleansed before you get into Heaven where, as the Bk of Revelation says "there is no unclean thing" whatsoever...

that means all the nefarious detritus (residue) from your sins needs to be purged off your soul... which means you need to stop making excuses for all those... what you always tend to call "small sins" (like holding onto your pride or just whatever... I mention that one because we humans are ALL prideful at one time or another, but usually lots of times..)

Mt 18:23
Phil 2:12
1 Cor 3:13 (I think it is 13, maybe 15)

The book of Maccabbees, discarded by Luther speaks of the Jews praying for the dead after a battle.

 

[jwoodie]

The wages of sin are death, not purgatory.

 

[nomadic5]

The wages of sin are death, not purgatory.

so you reject those Bible passages given and their proper interpretation (by the Ancient Church)?

figures... People believe the Bible.. until they don't

until it sounds a little too Catholic

the dogma lives loudly... as someone once said

 

[1srelluc]

When you stop to consider it the various versions of "God" is about like the story of Keyser Söze.

 

[jwoodie]

so you reject those Bible passages given and their proper interpretation (by the Ancient Church)?

What about Joshua 10:12-15? Do you still believe the Sun "stopped" in the sky?

 

[Clyde 154]

Protestants don't believe in Purgatory. Me, I don't believe in 30 degree weather...

don't believe in traffic jams (esp when I'm on my way to getting coffee!!)

don't believe in liberals

don't believe in abortion

However, I cannot make all those hated things disappear by not believing in them.. If only I could... sigh

Anyhow, there are Scriptures that allude to a place of purgation (cleansing). And you have to be cleansed before you get into Heaven where, as the Bk of Revelation says "there is no unclean thing" whatsoever...

that means all the nefarious detritus (residue) from your sins needs to be purged off your soul... which means you need to stop making excuses for all those... what you always tend to call "small sins" (like holding onto your pride or just whatever... I mention that one because we humans are ALL prideful at one time or another, but usually lots of times..)

Mt 18:23
Phil 2:12
1 Cor 3:13 (I think it is 13, maybe 15)

The book of Maccabbees, discarded by Luther speaks of the Jews praying for the dead after a battle.

A Christian deals in what can be proven via the word of God.....not man made traditions that contradict the Word of God. A Christian is advised to search the scriptures daily to see if that which is being instructed is so, as claimed.......to Test All things through reason and logic (Acts 17:11, 1 Thess. 5:21)

Show us the actual content of the Holy Scriptures that declares that the dead can be forgiven of the sins made while alive, through prayers from the living.....while being punished in Hades.

In Fact Jesus stated that is impossible for the dead to even speak to the living, when the rich man asked if he could send a message of warning to his living family members....the scriptures stated, "If they hear not Moses and prophets, neither will they be persuaded through one raised from the dead." -- Luke 16

 

[nomadic5]

When you stop to consider it the various versions of "God" is about like the story of Keyser Söze.

I don't care what mere humans say about God. I try to figure out what God himself is saying... no idea who the worthy Soze is

 

[nomadic5]

A Christian deals in what can be proven via the word of God.....not man made traditions that contradict the Word of God.

who said otherwise?

God- made Traditions are another thing (I think of the words in the Old Testament: perpetual ordinance.. or perpetual sacrifice...)

Protestants ignore God given traditioins because Tradition has become the proverbial 4 letter word to them

 

[seaofnails]

.
The concept of " the term - Limbo " was debated for about 700 years by Roman Catholics from the 12th century to the 19 th century. However the concept dealing with the fate of unbaptized babies has been debated since St Augustine in the 4th century.

Here is why Catholics are guided to dispel the term " LIMBO " before this can be discussed.

As for the afterlife, the fate and eternal destiny of unbaptized babies / a baby who was not baptized into Roman Catholicism, their fate after death has been something that The Catholic scholars for centuries have debated.

According to church catechisms or teachings related to the 4th century, father St. Augustine is seen as attempting in his writings to answer this question.... Do babies who were not Roman Catholic - that haven not been sprinkled with holy water carry the original sin

The Catholic scholars have asked - will these babies who die be accepted in heaven and will these innocent beings, be sent to eternal hell fire.

Upon the Vatican Website

The hope of salvation for infants who die without being baptised

www.vatican.va

we can find the following material relating to " CATHOLIC LIMBO "

this Vatican website states that - - St. Augustine's thought and theories and doctrines regarding the fate of unbaptized infants were brought up or revived in the 16th century ..... The Vatican website goes on to state that this was brought up by a 16th century Sect or group following " who followed a theory called Augustinianism along with a mixture of Jansenism faiths.

The Vatican website explains that - Catholic theologians of the Augustinian school, { the Jansenists } , greatly opposed the theory of Limbo.

and that then (Paul III, Benedict XIV and also Clement XIII) defended and upheld the right of Catholics to teach Augustine's views theories and doctrines regarding babies dying under original sin who ( these babies ) are condemned and to punished with the eternal torment of the fire in hell BUT the baby would only suffer forever in eternity feeling a very, very mild pain, { not too hot..... for the baby was was not a Roman Catholic.

The Vatican website also describes how that St. Augustine elaborated on the pain that the baby would feel as he detailed - comparing of the baby who was not Roman Catholic with the pain that was suffered by adults who were punished for their mortal sins.

in conclusion - Pius VI pronounced that it is perfectly fine to teach that babies who died with the guilt of original sin are punished but only punishment of " complete lack of the Beatific Vision " called

(“punishment of loss”), - but not sensible pains not - (the punishment of "fire").

Pius VI resolved this matter " In the bull “Auctorem Fidei” (1794) " the Pope condemned the teaching that places babies into hell fire and flames and pain who have not baptized and whose sins are ONLY the sin of " ORIGINAL SIN "

Pius VI also called """ ‘ Limbo of Children """"" was not the same punishment as the punishment of the condemned as - punishment of fire....

The website - goes on to clarify that the Vatican declines to label this as LIMBO ‘ Limbo of Children and explains that - Limbo, was the common Catholic teaching until the mid-20th century.

The Vatican and Pope in essence - teaches that the term " LIMBO ‘ Limbo of Children "" is a term directly connected to a painful hell and eternal flame of hell for unbaptized babies and that although the unbaptized baby will die and go to a punishment, but the punishment was not the same punishment as the punishment of the condemned who will burn in eternal flames - punishment of fire....

The Vatican also promotes this teaching but also not until " IN THE 20 th CENTURY " the Church Authority has clarified only recently in the 19th and 20th centuries - saying that the eventual fate of the unbaptized innocent baby who is not catholic, their final destination / judgment day determination / judgment and eventual fate after purgatory will be based upon God's mercy.

and this is not called Limbo any longer, - nearly 2000 years of limbo confusion

 

[nomadic5]

The wages of sin are death, not purgatory.

don't worry

there is plenty ofdeath in Purgatory (a place that exists--- was not made up by the CC)

but there is plenty of death i Purgatory

death to SIN and our sick desire for it... which cannot be allowed into Heaven... yet a loving God cannot cast such (nonetheless repentant/Christ-loving) folks into Hell, from which there is no release..

 

[nomadic5]

.
The concept of " the term - Limbo " was debated for about 700 years by Roman Catholics from the 12th century to the 19 th century. However the concept dealing with the fate of unbaptized babies has been debated since St Augustine in the 4th century.

Here is why Catholics are guided to dispel the term " LIMBO " before this can be discussed.

As for the afterlife, the fate and eternal destiny of unbaptized babies / a baby who was not baptized into Roman Catholicism, their fate after death has been something that The Catholic scholars for centuries have debated.

According to church catechisms or teachings related to the 4th century, father St. Augustine is seen as attempting in his writings to answer this question.... Do babies who were not Roman Catholic - that haven not been sprinkled with holy water carry the original sin

The Catholic scholars have asked - will these babies who die be accepted in heaven and will these innocent beings, be sent to eternal hell fire.

Upon the Vatican Website

The hope of salvation for infants who die without being baptised

www.vatican.va

we can find the following material relating to " CATHOLIC LIMBO "

this Vatican website states that - - St. Augustine's thought and theories and doctrines regarding the fate of unbaptized infants were brought up or revived in the 16th century ..... The Vatican website goes on to state that this was brought up by a 16th century Sect or group following " who followed a theory called Augustinianism along with a mixture of Jansenism faiths.

The Vatican website explains that - Catholic theologians of the Augustinian school, { the Jansenists } , greatly opposed the theory of Limbo.

and that then (Paul III, Benedict XIV and also Clement XIII) defended and upheld the right of Catholics to teach Augustine's views theories and doctrines regarding babies dying under original sin who ( these babies ) are condemned and to punished with the eternal torment of the fire in hell BUT the baby would only suffer forever in eternity feeling a very, very mild pain, { not too hot..... for the baby was was not a Roman Catholic.

The Vatican website also describes how that St. Augustine elaborated on the pain that the baby would feel as he detailed - comparing of the baby who was not Roman Catholic with the pain that was suffered by adults who were punished for their mortal sins.

in conclusion - Pius VI pronounced that it is perfectly fine to teach that babies who died with the guilt of original sin are punished but only punishment of " complete lack of the Beatific Vision " called

(“punishment of loss”), - but not sensible pains not - (the punishment of "fire").

Pius VI resolved this matter " In the bull “Auctorem Fidei” (1794) " the Pope condemned the teaching that places babies into hell fire and flames and pain who have not baptized and whose sins are ONLY the sin of " ORIGINAL SIN "

Pius VI also called """ ‘ Limbo of Children """"" was not the same punishment as the punishment of the condemned as - punishment of fire....

The website - goes on to clarify that the Vatican declines to label this as LIMBO ‘ Limbo of Children and explains that - Limbo, was the common Catholic teaching until the mid-20th century.

The Vatican and Pope in essence - teaches that the term " LIMBO ‘ Limbo of Children "" is a term directly connected to a painful hell and eternal flame of hell for unbaptized babies and that although the unbaptized baby will die and go to a punishment, but the punishment was not the same punishment as the punishment of the condemned who will burn in eternal flames - punishment of fire....

The Vatican also promotes this teaching but also not until " IN THE 20 th CENTURY " the Church Authority has clarified only recently in the 19th and 20th centuries - saying that the eventual fate of the unbaptized innocent baby who is not catholic, their final destination / judgment day determination / judgment and eventual fate after purgatory will be based upon God's mercy.

and this is not called Limbo any longer, - nearly 2000 years of limbo confusion

This was veyr interesting

But I can't say it was written in the best way... i mean, I can't do 24/7 internet so I like something I can read through and thoroughly understand w/o having to re-read it

But in any case, it got me thinking of many things... namely:

1 I don't trust the Vatican after 1958 so I don't even feel like reading (re-rdg) what you say is on the Vatican site. Why bother? I alread know the Vatican is NOT Catholic, hasn't been since 1958... (see novusOrdoWatch.com)

2 I am going to investigate St Augustine bc I've never heard that he believed (If i u/stand u correctly) that babies unbabptized go toHell... THAT does not make any sense, except that I do believe in original sin... (the evidence for that is ABUNDANT just looking at human behavior alone!)

and I forgot the 3rd thing...

 

[nomadic5]

I think babies go to Purgatory like all those not ready for heaven

Any saint have that idea?