Proof of discrimination in health care

[Wolfstrike]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8Gh_bEiD_Fk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Proof of discrimination in health care - YouTube


thanks to the health care bill, every working person must now participate while these guys go about their merry way chosing who they want to provide care for

 

[CaféAuLait]

Dr Jack Moshine: "You brought me down for this bum!?!?!"

Wow, so what did he expect to only be called when non-bums arrived? WTF?

 

[Wolfstrike]

yep.
and when people pay $1000 per month for their health care insurance

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear W:
Just the fact the federal mandates would "regulate" which religious affiliations qualify as exemption from the penalty for not buying insurance

is unconstitutional because it discriminates by religion
and would decide penalties against people based on their beliefs or lack of affiliation with a qualifying exempted group!!!

the best way i see to fix this is to make it voluntary to OPT IN
not require proof in order to OPT OUT

you can still set up the exchanges or health insurance coops etc
but it cannot be mandated by govt and have religious conditions favoring
some people or groups over others

the same problem has been happening with conscientious objectors to war
and not always being able to prove religious beliefs so these people get
harassed and penalized if they can't prove they meet legal requirements

 

[Jackson]

Dr Jack Moshine: "You brought me down for this bum!?!?!"

Wow, so what did he expect to only be called when non-bums arrived? WTF?

What happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

What Happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

I am 57 years old and have been practicing for close to 30 years. When I was a child, growing up, we were taught to believe that Health Practitioners chose their professions as a calling, to help and heal people and to see that people could live a long and fulfilling life. I&#8217;d like to believe that this is still the case and perhaps I&#8217;ve become a bit more cynical as I&#8217;ve aged and watched how the health care field has evolved over the years.

I attended an excellent college, in fact one of the top universities in the United States. A great many of the incoming students were pre-med, meaning that they were talking the courses necessary so they would be admitted into a medical school. My first exposure to the realities of health care was from speaking to some of these freshmen and more often than not, the conversations seemed to revolve around the huge amounts of money they would make when they became Doctors. On occasion, I did speak to those people who really wanted to make a difference and really help the suffering, however more often than not, becoming a doctor was more about the potential money and prestige that came with the profession at that time (early 1970&#8217;s).

As it turned out, the pre-med syllabus was difficult (to say the least) and many of these students lasted one semester. However, those who were able to memorize the required work and regurgitate it were able to get the high grades and did go on to become doctors, dentists and other health care workers. I noticed that many of these students had no &#8220;people skills&#8221; but were good at spitting back the required information.

Now, I&#8217;ll fast forward 30 years. The medical field has dramatically changed and the large incomes are gone. Most doctors I know are working long hours, paying high office expenses and being &#8220;managed&#8221; by managed care, meaning that they cannot always make the proper decisions that are in the patient&#8217;s best interest. Managed care companies tell the doctors what they can and cannot do. Of course, they don&#8217;t blatantly say it and would deny it if accused, but when necessary treatments are not covered for one reason or another, this is the way that the control works. Additionally, as most doctors have contracts with managed care companies, these doctors are contracted to accept whatever payment is negotiated, and most times the payments are much lower than what the public believes. A doctor might submit a bill for $150.00 but will be lucky to receive $46 dollars and by contract will have to write off the rest.

This brings me to the subject at hand. As I very successfully treat Fibromyalgia, I am in constant contact with Rheumatologists, Chronic pain Doctors, Psychologists and other professionals who deal with fibro and related issues and illnesses.

Story 1 &#8211; Three years ago, I had a patient who had suffered with fibromyalgia for 20 years. She had gone from doctor to doctor with very little results. At that point she was under the care of a Rheumatologist. This particular patient found me and decided to begin treatment at my office. Her Rheumatologist was very supportive (something I find to be rare) and told her that if the treatment worked, he would be able to refer loads of his fibro patients because he really did not know what to do with them. Suffice it to sat, Terry has been fibro free for three years (my treatment lasts 8 weeks) and sent back a wonderful report to her Rheumatologist. I, than, decided to set up a lunch appointment with this doc to see if he might be a viable source of referrals, after all, he said that he was looking for someone who knew how to treat these patients. This doctor and I had a nice lunch, but as he explained it, over 50% of his practice were patients with Fibromyalgia and if they all got well, he would lose his practice. I was stunned.

Story 2 &#8211; I met with a Clinical Psychologist, who had Fibromyalgia for about 13 years and began treatment in my office. She was successfully treated and all her fibro symptoms had resolved. As she told me &#8220;Thank you for giving me my life back&#8221;. Being that she had suffered for so long with fibro, she had begun to specialize in running support groups for chronically ill patients, the majority having Fibromyalgia. She than asked me a question which also stunned me: &#8220;How am I going to hide the fact that I no longer have fibro symptoms from the people in my group?&#8221; When I asked what she meant, she explained that her chronic pain groups provided a high percent of her income and she could not afford to lose that money. I replied: &#8220;Isn&#8217;t it more important to be able to help people?&#8221; Her response: &#8220;I have expenses and 2 children in private schools.&#8221;

I have other similar stories which have accumulated over the years, but needless to say times have changed. More and more professionals are concerned, not with helping but with their own interests. Now this is not to say that all professionals are like this, but I seem to meet more and more. This is especially more evident when the economy takes its habitual dips.

I wonder if this is a new trend or if this has always been the situation and I just didn&#8217;t see it. My gut tells me that money always played a factor but the situation has worsened over the years.

There have also always been turf wars among health professionals and this also plays a part. Psychiatrists think psychologists are not highly trained; orthopedists think podiatrists are not trained etc.

My advice is that if you have a good, wonderful and caring doctor, keep him or her at all costs, even if it means paying for the care out of your pocket if the insurance plan changes. Your health is your most important asset, take care of it.

Dr. Gene Martin

 

[emilynghiem]

I've heard this blamed on insurance companies for deciding based on profits
what to pay for or not pay for.

I believe in spiritual healing to reduce the costs of both prevention, correction and procedures concerning medical and mental health treatments.

If this were studied and documented, where everyone had equal access to free spiritual healing and therapy, then the resources and facilities already in place could be focused more on the cases that truly require extensive procedures.

Also, by applying spiritual healing to get rid of the root cause of criminal illness and addiction, the billions currently wasted on prosecution, incarceration, hospitalization and other damages and expenses to people and property because of crime violence and abuse

could be redirected toward paying for health care, housing, and education without additional taxpayers money than what is already being spent on govt waste

Dr Jack Moshine: "You brought me down for this bum !?!?!"

Wow, so what did he expect to only be called when non-bums arrived? WTF?

What happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

What Happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

I am 57 years old and have been practicing for close to 30 years. When I was a child, growing up, we were taught to believe that Health Practitioners chose their professions as a calling, to help and heal people and to see that people could live a long and fulfilling life. I’d like to believe that this is still the case and perhaps I’ve become a bit more cynical as I’ve aged and watched how the health care field has evolved over the years.

I attended an excellent college, in fact one of the top universities in the United States. A great many of the incoming students were pre-med, meaning that they were talking the courses necessary so they would be admitted into a medical school. My first exposure to the realities of health care was from speaking to some of these freshmen and more often than not, the conversations seemed to revolve around the huge amounts of money they would make when they became Doctors. On occasion, I did speak to those people who really wanted to make a difference and really help the suffering, however more often than not, becoming a doctor was more about the potential money and prestige that came with the profession at that time (early 1970’s).

As it turned out, the pre-med syllabus was difficult (to say the least) and many of these students lasted one semester. However, those who were able to memorize the required work and regurgitate it were able to get the high grades and did go on to become doctors, dentists and other health care workers. I noticed that many of these students had no “people skills” but were good at spitting back the required information.

Now, I’ll fast forward 30 years. The medical field has dramatically changed and the large incomes are gone. Most doctors I know are working long hours, paying high office expenses and being “managed” by managed care, meaning that they cannot always make the proper decisions that are in the patient’s best interest. Managed care companies tell the doctors what they can and cannot do. Of course, they don’t blatantly say it and would deny it if accused, but when necessary treatments are not covered for one reason or another, this is the way that the control works. Additionally, as most doctors have contracts with managed care companies, these doctors are contracted to accept whatever payment is negotiated, and most times the payments are much lower than what the public believes. A doctor might submit a bill for $150.00 but will be lucky to receive $46 dollars and by contract will have to write off the rest.

This brings me to the subject at hand. As I very successfully treat Fibromyalgia, I am in constant contact with Rheumatologists, Chronic pain Doctors, Psychologists and other professionals who deal with fibro and related issues and illnesses.

Story 1 – Three years ago, I had a patient who had suffered with fibromyalgia for 20 years. She had gone from doctor to doctor with very little results. At that point she was under the care of a Rheumatologist. This particular patient found me and decided to begin treatment at my office. Her Rheumatologist was very supportive (something I find to be rare) and told her that if the treatment worked, he would be able to refer loads of his fibro patients because he really did not know what to do with them. Suffice it to sat, Terry has been fibro free for three years (my treatment lasts 8 weeks) and sent back a wonderful report to her Rheumatologist. I, than, decided to set up a lunch appointment with this doc to see if he might be a viable source of referrals, after all, he said that he was looking for someone who knew how to treat these patients. This doctor and I had a nice lunch, but as he explained it, over 50% of his practice were patients with Fibromyalgia and if they all got well, he would lose his practice. I was stunned.

Story 2 – I met with a Clinical Psychologist, who had Fibromyalgia for about 13 years and began treatment in my office. She was successfully treated and all her fibro symptoms had resolved. As she told me “Thank you for giving me my life back”. Being that she had suffered for so long with fibro, she had begun to specialize in running support groups for chronically ill patients, the majority having Fibromyalgia. She than asked me a question which also stunned me: “How am I going to hide the fact that I no longer have fibro symptoms from the people in my group?” When I asked what she meant, she explained that her chronic pain groups provided a high percent of her income and she could not afford to lose that money. I replied: “Isn’t it more important to be able to help people?” Her response: “I have expenses and 2 children in private schools.”

I have other similar stories which have accumulated over the years, but needless to say times have changed. More and more professionals are concerned, not with helping but with their own interests. Now this is not to say that all professionals are like this, but I seem to meet more and more. This is especially more evident when the economy takes its habitual dips.

I wonder if this is a new trend or if this has always been the situation and I just didn’t see it. My gut tells me that money always played a factor but the situation has worsened over the years.

There have also always been turf wars among health professionals and this also plays a part. Psychiatrists think psychologists are not highly trained; orthopedists think podiatrists are not trained etc.

My advice is that if you have a good, wonderful and caring doctor, keep him or her at all costs, even if it means paying for the care out of your pocket if the insurance plan changes. Your health is your most important asset, take care of it.

Dr. Gene Martin

 

[Wolfstrike]

Just the fact the federal mandates would "regulate" which religious affiliations qualify as exemption from the penalty for not buying insurance

is unconstitutional because it discriminates by religion

don't worry about it.
i bet they'll get rid of it in a few years

 

[Greenbeard]

Now, I’ll fast forward 30 years. The medical field has dramatically changed and the large incomes are gone.

Counterpoint:

The Great Unmentionable: The role of high salaries and wages in health care inflation

In discussions of America’s high health care costs, surprisingly little attention is paid to salaries and wages. Yet the fact that medical jobs simply pay more than those in other sectors is beyond dispute. A physician practicing in a primary care setting, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, earned an average of just over $200,000 in 2010, while specialists averaged over $355,000 (the highest of any professional category tracked). By comparison, lawyers average just over $110,000, airline pilots about $92,000, and chartered actuaries (who calculate risk for insurance companies and must pass complex exams longer and arguably more difficult than the medical boards) about $150,000.

And nothing about the training costs of the people who provide medical care explains their high wages, either. Because medical school takes four years of full-time study—as compared with three years for law school and two for business school (tuition is comparable)—doctors do, indeed, graduate with more debt than people pursuing other professional training. But the wages they earn afterward more than make up for this: An average year in medical school costs about $25,000 at most public schools, while doctors make, on average, $80,000 more than lawyers but spend only one year more in school.

 

[atlasshrugged]

Now, I’ll fast forward 30 years. The medical field has dramatically changed and the large incomes are gone.

Counterpoint:

The Great Unmentionable: The role of high salaries and wages in health care inflation

In discussions of America’s high health care costs, surprisingly little attention is paid to salaries and wages. Yet the fact that medical jobs simply pay more than those in other sectors is beyond dispute. A physician practicing in a primary care setting, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, earned an average of just over $200,000 in 2010, while specialists averaged over $355,000 (the highest of any professional category tracked). By comparison, lawyers average just over $110,000, airline pilots about $92,000, and chartered actuaries (who calculate risk for insurance companies and must pass complex exams longer and arguably more difficult than the medical boards) about $150,000.

And nothing about the training costs of the people who provide medical care explains their high wages, either. Because medical school takes four years of full-time study—as compared with three years for law school and two for business school (tuition is comparable)—doctors do, indeed, graduate with more debt than people pursuing other professional training. But the wages they earn afterward more than make up for this: An average year in medical school costs about $25,000 at most public schools, while doctors make, on average, $80,000 more than lawyers but spend only one year more in school.

This report disregards one critical fact. Although Med School is 4 years, a 3-4 year residency is required before Board Certification and the right to practice. Residency programs do not have steep tuition rates, but the cost of living for 4 years adds up quickly. And that is only for the general physician. Those specialists who make $350,000 a year have to complete an additional 2-3 years of specialization (these include ER Surgeons, Neurosurgeons, Urologist, Nephrologists, Ortho Surgeons, etc)

Lawyers making 110,00 a year for 3 years of school vs a Doctor making $200,000 for 7 years or $350,000 for 10 years doesn't sound so crazy.

 

[onecut39]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8Gh_bEiD_Fk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Proof of discrimination in health care - YouTube


thanks to the health care bill, every working person must now participate while these guys go about their merry way chosing who they want to provide care for

This video is 46 seconds long and says absolutely nothing. You have a point? Show us a complete video.

As it is I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[reesemorgon]

The benefits of swimming, it is one of the safest forms of physical exercise mat can find one.If a person is suffering from joint pain, swimming is a good exercise for him. Compared to land when swimming, he will not feel any pain.So always do the exercise.

 

[atlasshrugged]

The benefits of swimming, it is one of the safest forms of physical exercise mat can find one.If a person is suffering from joint pain, swimming is a good exercise for him. Compared to land when swimming, he will not feel any pain.So always do the exercise.

Until they get Osteoporosis from the lack of bone and joint impact. You're right though, swimming is a wonderful way to stay fit. But even for people with joint pain, you need to exercise in several ways.

 

[Mooralist]

Now, I’ll fast forward 30 years. The medical field has dramatically changed and the large incomes are gone.

Counterpoint:

And nothing about the training costs of the people who provide medical care explains their high wages, either. Because medical school takes four years of full-time study—as compared with three years for law school and two for business school (tuition is comparable)—doctors do, indeed, graduate with more debt than people pursuing other professional training. But the wages they earn afterward more than make up for this: An average year in medical school costs about $25,000 at most public schools, while doctors make, on average, $80,000 more than lawyers but spend only one year more in school.

This report disregards one critical fact. Although Med School is 4 years, a 3-4 year residency is required before Board Certification and the right to practice. Residency programs do not have steep tuition rates, but the cost of living for 4 years adds up quickly. And that is only for the general physician. Those specialists who make $350,000 a year have to complete an additional 2-3 years of specialization (these include ER Surgeons, Neurosurgeons, Urologist, Nephrologists, Ortho Surgeons, etc)

Lawyers making 110,00 a year for 3 years of school vs a Doctor making $200,000 for 7 years or $350,000 for 10 years doesn't sound so crazy.

So the average salary for lawyers is 110,000. The average is that low because of the ridiculously large number of lawyers in this country (supply and demand) with a significant portion of them working in other fields than law. This average neglects the fact that there are many many lawyers who make plenty more than physicians, why isn't there a salary cap for them?

If you are an excellent physician why shouldn't you be compensated for being the best at what you do? It's like saying all cars should cost the same. Never mind the high cost of performance parts and engineering that goes behind the product, a car is a car and should cost as much as the next one. I for one chose to enter medicine from a genuine desire to help people and I do not expect to make a fortune doing it. However, I think the competition is necessary to balance the risk vs reward of entering particular fields of medicine. Obviously a surgeon is performing incredibly delicate procedures which carries a higher risk of malpractice even though the patient undergoes the procedure acknowledging the risks associated. Before people complain too loudly about salaries there needs to be tort reform protecting physicians from frivolous lawsuits.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Dr Jack Moshine: "You brought me down for this bum!?!?!"

Wow, so what did he expect to only be called when non-bums arrived? WTF?

What happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

What Happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

I am 57 years old and have been practicing for close to 30 years. When I was a child, growing up, we were taught to believe that Health Practitioners chose their professions as a calling, to help and heal people and to see that people could live a long and fulfilling life. I’d like to believe that this is still the case and perhaps I’ve become a bit more cynical as I’ve aged and watched how the health care field has evolved over the years.

I attended an excellent college, in fact one of the top universities in the United States. A great many of the incoming students were pre-med, meaning that they were talking the courses necessary so they would be admitted into a medical school. My first exposure to the realities of health care was from speaking to some of these freshmen and more often than not, the conversations seemed to revolve around the huge amounts of money they would make when they became Doctors. On occasion, I did speak to those people who really wanted to make a difference and really help the suffering, however more often than not, becoming a doctor was more about the potential money and prestige that came with the profession at that time (early 1970’s).

As it turned out, the pre-med syllabus was difficult (to say the least) and many of these students lasted one semester. However, those who were able to memorize the required work and regurgitate it were able to get the high grades and did go on to become doctors, dentists and other health care workers. I noticed that many of these students had no “people skills” but were good at spitting back the required information.

Now, I’ll fast forward 30 years. The medical field has dramatically changed and the large incomes are gone. Most doctors I know are working long hours, paying high office expenses and being “managed” by managed care, meaning that they cannot always make the proper decisions that are in the patient’s best interest. Managed care companies tell the doctors what they can and cannot do. Of course, they don’t blatantly say it and would deny it if accused, but when necessary treatments are not covered for one reason or another, this is the way that the control works. Additionally, as most doctors have contracts with managed care companies, these doctors are contracted to accept whatever payment is negotiated, and most times the payments are much lower than what the public believes. A doctor might submit a bill for $150.00 but will be lucky to receive $46 dollars and by contract will have to write off the rest.

This brings me to the subject at hand. As I very successfully treat Fibromyalgia, I am in constant contact with Rheumatologists, Chronic pain Doctors, Psychologists and other professionals who deal with fibro and related issues and illnesses.

Story 1 – Three years ago, I had a patient who had suffered with fibromyalgia for 20 years. She had gone from doctor to doctor with very little results. At that point she was under the care of a Rheumatologist. This particular patient found me and decided to begin treatment at my office. Her Rheumatologist was very supportive (something I find to be rare) and told her that if the treatment worked, he would be able to refer loads of his fibro patients because he really did not know what to do with them. Suffice it to sat, Terry has been fibro free for three years (my treatment lasts 8 weeks) and sent back a wonderful report to her Rheumatologist. I, than, decided to set up a lunch appointment with this doc to see if he might be a viable source of referrals, after all, he said that he was looking for someone who knew how to treat these patients. This doctor and I had a nice lunch, but as he explained it, over 50% of his practice were patients with Fibromyalgia and if they all got well, he would lose his practice. I was stunned.

Story 2 – I met with a Clinical Psychologist, who had Fibromyalgia for about 13 years and began treatment in my office. She was successfully treated and all her fibro symptoms had resolved. As she told me “Thank you for giving me my life back”. Being that she had suffered for so long with fibro, she had begun to specialize in running support groups for chronically ill patients, the majority having Fibromyalgia. She than asked me a question which also stunned me: “How am I going to hide the fact that I no longer have fibro symptoms from the people in my group?” When I asked what she meant, she explained that her chronic pain groups provided a high percent of her income and she could not afford to lose that money. I replied: “Isn’t it more important to be able to help people?” Her response: “I have expenses and 2 children in private schools.”

I have other similar stories which have accumulated over the years, but needless to say times have changed. More and more professionals are concerned, not with helping but with their own interests. Now this is not to say that all professionals are like this, but I seem to meet more and more. This is especially more evident when the economy takes its habitual dips.

I wonder if this is a new trend or if this has always been the situation and I just didn’t see it. My gut tells me that money always played a factor but the situation has worsened over the years.

There have also always been turf wars among health professionals and this also plays a part. Psychiatrists think psychologists are not highly trained; orthopedists think podiatrists are not trained etc.

My advice is that if you have a good, wonderful and caring doctor, keep him or her at all costs, even if it means paying for the care out of your pocket if the insurance plan changes. Your health is your most important asset, take care of it.

Dr. Gene Martin

There's nothing new about what you describe or in what is portrayed in the video. It was in the 70s that hospitals started cutting hours of ancillary staff to less than 40 so they could cut benefits. That was also when uninsured patients were "turfed" off to the county hospitals. I can still remember patients being sent right back out as fast as they were brought in.

One who sticks in my mind all these years later was drunk and belligerent and had no idea that he had gone through a windshield, face first. His name was Billy London and even when a mirror was held for him to see the hamburger of his face, he didn't believe it. He had no insurance, so the ambulance that brought him in also took him to Denver General, which, in those days, was the county hospital where the GOMERS were sent. for those who don't know, that "Get Out Of My ER".

As I keep reminding the rw's it was Reagan's socialist "EMTALA" that changed all that. And, it is what Romney said is his own health care "plan" if he is elected. It not only guarantees health care for US citizens, all illegals are treated as well. Pregnant but not a US citizen? Just go to the ER and get the best the US has to offer.

It was also back then that doctors in private practice had no home life and were on call, 24/7. If they chose to take a job, say, Medical Director for a large corporation (the Med Dir of then-known-as Mountain Bell), they took a huge cut in pay but could see their kids now and then. My friend moonlighted in the emergency dept so that he could still afford the necessities, like his airplane. His choice and I certainly enjoyed flying from Denver to Aspen for lunch with him.

I've written in the past about my own experience with medical care in Europe. It was an emergency but I was seen twice with no waiting, the care was absolutely first rate and the cost, including two scrips, was about US$150.

I don't know why rw's continue to refuse to learn what ObamaCare REALLY means to them. As stupid as that is, that's their choice. BUT, they have no right to fight against decent health care at a much more affordable cost, for the rest of us.

They also don't have the right to fight against the possibility of getting trauma and burn units back.

Though I know that rw's will not read it, here it is again -

Kaiser Health Reform Gateway: Health Care Reform and Health Insurance Reform Analysis, Data and Information

I would also recommend this excellent documentary.

Money-Driven Medicine