Proof How Your Religion Could Be Made Up

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

 

[hadit]

Yet another evangelistic atheist thread in yet another vain attempt to belittle those who freely choose to believe differently.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

 

[sealybobo]

Yet another evangelistic atheist thread in yet another vain attempt to belittle those who freely choose to believe differently.

If you might be worshipping a lie wouldn't you want to know?

If you still want to believe after seeing or hearing all the evidence I'm cool with that.

This is just for people who claim their religion is obvious or that were going to hell if we don't.believe or that america is a christian nation. The fuck it is. It is a country for atheists and stupid theists alike. Secular.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

 

[hadit]

Yet another evangelistic atheist thread in yet another vain attempt to belittle those who freely choose to believe differently.

If you might be worshipping a lie wouldn't you want to know?

If you still want to believe after seeing or hearing all the evidence I'm cool with that.

This is just for people who claim their religion is obvious or that were going to hell if we don't.believe or that america is a christian nation. The fuck it is. It is a country for atheists and stupid theists alike. Secular.

Of course I would want to know if I believed a lie. The problem the atheist has, however, is that it is impossible to prove the negative in this case, because you simply can't know each person's personal experience, and I'm okay with watching them become increasingly desperate trying to do so. As for America, no, it is not a "Christian nation", and never was. What American society DID do, however, was acknowledge and honor God for over 200 years, during which time America became the greatest superpower the world has known. Now, of course, we are moving away from doing that and will slide into irrelevance in relatively short order.

 

[hadit]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

You could make the case that a lot of what is "known" is a myth. In fact, when you hear someone say "everyone knows", it's a good indication that they probably don't.

 

[westwall]

Why do you care what other people believe? Are you so insecure in your own atheism that you need to surround yourself with fellow travelers to give you comfort if you're wrong..so you can all go to Hell "together"? You militant atheists are just as bad as the religious nutters on here.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

All religions are "made up" and based on ancient beliefs - and their followers know that.

I don't see a problem with this. I believe it to be a kind of shared hysteria but people need to believe in invisible, super natural beings.

If they didn't have that, there are some who would not be able to come out from under the bed every morning.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

The myth was spread verbally first.

I'm sure the first Muslims and Mormons were persecuted too.

So was Nero a myth or was the persecution of Christians, which was recorded by Roman historians, a myth?

 

[Grendelyn]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.[/QUOTE]

While coughing his fool head off, I asked a smoker friend of mine why he simply didn't quit . . . his answer was that there was nothing else to replace it. I believe religion is like this, too. What drug, other than religion, on this sad planet of ours can replace seeing past deceased loving relatives while living a life of bliss for eternity? It takes a very strong, special person . . . and I stink at it for I desperately want to see my father again but deep down know that I never will . . . to have the ability to look reality in the eye and accept the fact that there is absolutely no afterlife in heaven. The hoodwinking, mountebank priestcraft, of course, all know of this and that is why their tax-exempt coffers continue to grow while the poor whom they piously profess to serve grow poorer. ~ Susan

I am of the firm belief that it is totally impossible for two men of the cloth to pass each other on the street without winking at each other. ​

 

[sealybobo]

Yet another evangelistic atheist thread in yet another vain attempt to belittle those who freely choose to believe differently.

If you might be worshipping a lie wouldn't you want to know?

If you still want to believe after seeing or hearing all the evidence I'm cool with that.

This is just for people who claim their religion is obvious or that were going to hell if we don't.believe or that america is a christian nation. The fuck it is. It is a country for atheists and stupid theists alike. Secular.

Of course I would want to know if I believed a lie. The problem the atheist has, however, is that it is impossible to prove the negative in this case, because you simply can't know each person's personal experience, and I'm okay with watching them become increasingly desperate trying to do so. As for America, no, it is not a "Christian nation", and never was. What American society DID do, however, was acknowledge and honor God for over 200 years, during which time America became the greatest superpower the world has known. Now, of course, we are moving away from doing that and will slide into irrelevance in relatively short order.

Do you need to prove god didn't talk to Joseph Smith or Mohammad? No. We both just know it isn't true.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” – Stephen F Roberts

Just like the Romans fell, only they weren't Christians and sin didn't have anything to do with their fall or ours. It was greed and arrogance. Its actually good more people are turning into science believing atheists. It means the human species is evolving. It means our brains are getting too smart to believe fairy tales. But no doubt god is a very powerful idea that will be around for a long time.

Our Christianity had very little to do with us becoming the greatest country ever. Killing the Indians and stealing the Mexicans land and having slaves and taking advantage of immigrants is what built this country.

What made this country great is that poor people could become middle class or rich. Is that still true? Sure, but not like it use to be.

Unions made this country great. Did you hear Ford had record profits? They also gave huge profit sharing to their employees. Except for the Big 3, unions are all but gone. In great European countries there isn't such a big gap between the rich and poor. You rightys fail to realize this is a problem in America. Not so bad in socialist Germany, Australia, Switzerland, Canada. Everyone use to want to come to America. Now the guy in Seattle wants to move to Vancouver. Sad really. But look at how the rich are doing. They're doing better than ever. But if you tax them they'll cry job creator and class warfare and socialism!

 

[sealybobo]

All religions are "made up" and based on ancient beliefs - and their followers know that.

I don't see a problem with this. I believe it to be a kind of shared hysteria but people need to believe in invisible, super natural beings.

If they didn't have that, there are some who would not be able to come out from under the bed every morning.

That argument is actually wrong thinking in a lot of ways. When people stop believing some all mighty is watching them 24/7 then they can go about doing what makes them happy. And stop waiting for the afterlife. You only live once. YOLO. As long as its legal of course. No guilt for jacking off. No fear of going to hell because you are smart enough to think for yourself.

The Greeks were afraid of Zeus. Everything bad that happened was his wrath. Imagine our delight when we realized thunder and lightening were not angry gods. A bit liberating. Knowledge is power.

And fine! If you want a god, make up a generic good one who clearly would only care if you were a good person, not if you believe. We all know about bad kharma. Maybe we need to drop the lie that god came and talked to our ancestors and start back from square one where we debated if god exists but neither side claimed to know for sure. The 10 commandments were a good starting point. But clearly men came up with that list.

Thinking other people are going to hell if they don't believe exposes religions lie right off the bat. That's just a hook. Leaders of the church made that up to get people to commit. Its brainwashing. Scare tactics. Almost worked on me.

But I do wonder what would happen to all the people who think they need god or were really fucked up and then belief in god saved their lives. I guess if there is a need for god there will always be a god. Don't think he can be totally eradicated completely. And I'm ok with that. I really just want all the modern day organized religions to go away and lets start a new. There could be a god. We see no evidence, but if there were a god, what would it care about? Would it care that we believe or that we are good people? Has god ever visited anyone? Not in any verifiable way. So lets stop putting our faith in the writings of the ancients. Question authority.

The only way god can ever be proved is scientifically.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.[/QUOTE]

While coughing his fool head off, I asked a smoker friend of mine why he simply didn't quit . . . his answer was that there was nothing else to replace it. I believe religion is like this, too. What drug, other than religion, on this sad planet of ours can replace seeing past deceased loving relatives while living a life of bliss for eternity? It takes a very strong, special person . . . and I stink at it for I desperately want to see my father again but deep down know that I never will . . . to have the ability to look reality in the eye and accept the fact that there is absolutely no afterlife in heaven. The hoodwinking, mountebank priestcraft, of course, all know of this and that is why their tax-exempt coffers continue to grow while the poor whom they piously profess to serve grow poorer. ~ Susan

I am of the firm belief that it is totally impossible for two men of the cloth to pass each other on the street without winking at each other. ​

Most atheists fall into the category of ‘Agnostic Atheism’ – they don’t claim to know with certainty that god does not exist. Conversely, most theists are ‘Gnostic Theists’ – they claim to know with certainty that their particular god exists.

When most atheists say “God does not exist” it does not appear to exist within contextual reality in which we find ourselves but, importantly, the statement is not necessarily an absolute one.

There are, however, gnostic atheists who are certain no god exists and they generally point to logical problems that would arise from said god’s existence or evidence this universe is inconsistent with a god, for example:

• Infinite Regression
• Argument from Poor Design
• The Atheist’s Wager
• Non-belief Paradox
• Omnipotence Paradox
• Free Will Paradox
• Argument from locality
• Argument from Non-reason
• Argument from incompatible properties
• Fate of the Unlearned
• Problem of Evil and Problem of Hell

See also: The Dragon in my Garage

Number 25 Why there is no god

 

[sealybobo]

I gather from the lack of replies that theists understand it is very possible that their religions are made up. They only choose to believe their particular religions stories just like people of other religions do.

And then to tell people that god told your ancestors that the test to get into heaven or to not go to hell is that we have to believe you and your particular church?

 

[westwall]

I gather from the lack of replies that theists understand it is very possible that their religions are made up. They only choose to believe their particular religions stories just like people of other religions do.

And then to tell people that god told your ancestors that the test to get into heaven or to not go to hell is that we have to believe you and your particular church?

And, once again. Why do you care?

 

[sealybobo]

I gather from the lack of replies that theists understand it is very possible that their religions are made up. They only choose to believe their particular religions stories just like people of other religions do.

And then to tell people that god told your ancestors that the test to get into heaven or to not go to hell is that we have to believe you and your particular church?

And, once again. Why do you care?

Actually, why do you care? For example, I'll vote for a theist but apparently you guys won't vote for an atheist.

The Immoral Minority New polls shows that Americans would rather vote for an elderly pot smoking philanderer than vote for an Atheist. Oh come on

But people are getting smarter and things are getting better for us.

More Americans willing to vote for an atheist president - Religion News Service

True, 53 percent of Americans said they are least likely to choose a candidate who doesn’t believe in God, but in 2007, that number was 63 percent.

And those who said a candidate’s lack of belief didn’t matter to their vote rose, from 32 percent in 2007 to 41 percent today.

Stiefel — still dismayed that even pot smokers or philanderers were viewed more favorably than atheists — predicted Tuesday (May 20) that the shift will be even greater as more unbelievers come out of the closet.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that the Mormon story is better than the Jesus myth. Its way dumber. But I want to use mormonism as an example of how a lie can be told and yet millions will believe it.

If the Mormon faith is all a lie made up 215 years ago why can't christians imagine maybe Jesus didn't really perform miracles. Maybe he didn't really rise from the grave.

The virgin birth story isn't even original.

How can christians look at jehovas Muslims and Mormons and not see they're no different? It baffles me.

If Jesus was a myth, who was it Nero was persecuting a decade before publication of any books of the new testament?

Was Nero a myth too?

Some critics call into question the Nero story and call it a forgery. Around the date of Nero's Fire, 64 AD, there were no "multitude of Christians" in Rome. At this time, there was not even a multitude of Christians in Judea. Therefore, it is highly doubtful that Nero would refer to Christians in this way. This is also the only mention of Christians in the work of Tacitus, despite the fact that he wrote several volumes. Also, the supposed persecution of the Christians by Nero is not recorded by any other historian of Nero's time. If the persecution of Christians were really that widespread, wouldn't other historians be writing about it?

JESUS CHRIST - NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE

 

[sealybobo]

I gather from the lack of replies that theists understand it is very possible that their religions are made up. They only choose to believe their particular religions stories just like people of other religions do.

And then to tell people that god told your ancestors that the test to get into heaven or to not go to hell is that we have to believe you and your particular church?

And, once again. Why do you care?

You guys asked me to seek and ye shall find the truth. I'm finding it alright. Now I want to spread the gospel according to Sealybobo.

three passages in non-Christian works have been used to support the historicity of Jesus: two in the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus, and one from the Roman historian Tacitus. Although the authenticity of all three has been questioned, and one is generally accepted as having been altered by Christians, most scholars believe they are at least partially authentic

There is near unanimity among scholars that Jesus probably or might have existed historically, although scholars differ about the beliefs and teachings of Jesus as well as the accuracy of the details of his life that have been described in the Gospels. While scholars have sometimes criticized Christianity for religious bias and lack of methodological soundness, with very few exceptions, such critics do support the historicity of Jesus, and reject the theory that Jesus never existed

 

[westwall]

I gather from the lack of replies that theists understand it is very possible that their religions are made up. They only choose to believe their particular religions stories just like people of other religions do.

And then to tell people that god told your ancestors that the test to get into heaven or to not go to hell is that we have to believe you and your particular church?

And, once again. Why do you care?

Actually, why do you care? For example, I'll vote for a theist but apparently you guys won't vote for an atheist.

The Immoral Minority New polls shows that Americans would rather vote for an elderly pot smoking philanderer than vote for an Atheist. Oh come on

But people are getting smarter and things are getting better for us.

More Americans willing to vote for an atheist president - Religion News Service

True, 53 percent of Americans said they are least likely to choose a candidate who doesn’t believe in God, but in 2007, that number was 63 percent.

And those who said a candidate’s lack of belief didn’t matter to their vote rose, from 32 percent in 2007 to 41 percent today.

Stiefel — still dismayed that even pot smokers or philanderers were viewed more favorably than atheists — predicted Tuesday (May 20) that the shift will be even greater as more unbelievers come out of the closet.

I'm an agnostic, I vote for whoever I think will do the best job. However, invariably, the purpose of thse threads is for the atheist to say "look how smart I am, look how dumb you are rah rah rah." It's infantile and useless. So why do you do it?