Professors Are Afraid of Their Students?

[Adam's Apple]

These must be professors of the conservative ilk.

Academic Intimidation
By Thomas Sowell, Townhall
December 18, 2007

There is an article in the current issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education --the trade publication of the academic world--about professors being physically intimidated by their students.

"Most of us dread physical confrontation," the author says. "And so these aggressive, and even dangerous, students get passed along, learning that intimidation and implied threats will get them what they want in life."

This professor has been advised, at more than one college, not to let students know where he lives, not to give out his home phone number and to keep his home phone number from being listed.

for full article:
www.townhall.com/Columnists/ThomasSowell/2007/12/18/academic_intimidation

 

[liberalogic]

These must be professors of the conservative ilk.

Academic Intimidation
By Thomas Sowell, Townhall
December 18, 2007

There is an article in the current issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education --the trade publication of the academic world--about professors being physically intimidated by their students.

"Most of us dread physical confrontation," the author says. "And so these aggressive, and even dangerous, students get passed along, learning that intimidation and implied threats will get them what they want in life."

This professor has been advised, at more than one college, not to let students know where he lives, not to give out his home phone number and to keep his home phone number from being listed.

for full article:
www.townhall.com/Columnists/ThomasSowell/2007/12/18/academic_intimidation

First off, to make it seem as though violence is widespread in various higher educational facilities across the country is absurd. I've been in college for three years and I've never once heard of a professor being physically threatened by a student. Has it ever happened? I'm sure. But to pretend that it is a widespread trend is ridiculous.

Second, for all the shit that the student movement took in the 1960s, we tend to overlook its accomplishments. Many schools have granted students more of a say in their schools, including access to the university senate and the declassification of files and board of trustee minutes. Also, I know that in my school course evaluations (the forms we fill out for each class at the end of each semester to rate the prof and course) were an objective of the students in the 1960s. In addition, the movement helped to liberalize student life, from girls being allowed to dress their own way to allowing boys and girls to sleep in the same dorms, and other things of this nature.

And I would like to ask because it really confuses me: what should we be learning in college? All everyone does is bash leftist-type courses, but they never tell me what we should be learning. I would love to hear some interesting suggestions to pass along on the next course evaluation forms.

 

[Adam's Apple]

First off, to make it seem as though violence is widespread in various higher educational facilities across the country is absurd.

As I am not a subscriber to CHE, I haven't read the original article on which Sowell based his topic. I would need to read the original article to better understand what Sowell was responding to. In my opinion, this was not one of his better efforts (and I am a fan of his writing). I do not think that professors are afraid of their students and take the precautions indicated in the article. At least on our campus, they don't.

As to what you are supposed to be learning: I think you need to answer that question yourself with self-introspection. Why did you choose to go to college? What is it that you want to learn there? Do you feel you are learning? Are you giving adequate time, consideration, and preparation to your studies? Are you being exposed to the pros and cons of every subject—not only through books but through different types of speakers who are brought to campus to speak? Do you feel that your professors/teaching assistants or whoever teaches your classes on a regular basis are helping you to learn? Do you feel that, as a consequence of the years you spend on campus, you will be adequately prepared to enter the “real” world following graduation? Why or why not to all of the above? Based on your own personal experience, add your own questions to the list and then go the pro/con evaluation route.

 

[liberalogic]

As I am not a subscriber to CHE, I haven't read the original article on which Sowell based his topic. I would need to read the original article to better understand what Sowell was responding to. In my opinion, this was not one of his better efforts (and I am a fan of his writing). I do not think that professors are afraid of their students and take the precautions indicated in the article. At least on our campus, they don't.

As to what you are supposed to be learning: I think you need to answer that question yourself with self-introspection. Why did you choose to go to college? What is it that you want to learn there? Do you feel you are learning? Are you giving adequate time, consideration, and preparation to your studies? Are you being exposed to the pros and cons of every subject—not only through books but through different types of speakers who are brought to campus to speak? Do you feel that your professors/teaching assistants or whoever teaches your classes on a regular basis are helping you to learn? Do you feel that, as a consequence of the years you spend on campus, you will be adequately prepared to enter the “real” world following graduation? Why or why not to all of the above? Based on your own personal experience, add your own questions to the list and then go the pro/con evaluation route.

The answer to most of your questions is yes. While professors can be arrogant and unresponsive to undergraduates because they are simply interested in the prestige of publication, the TAs usually pick up the slack and tie loose ends together.

I guess I just don't understand the whole liberal bias thing in college. Critics say that professors undermine America because of this so-called bias. I wish someone could give me an example to show me how my education has been compromised simply because my professors are realistic about the role America has played in the world.

 

[Doug]

What would be an example of a liberal professor's realistic appraisal of the role America has played in the world?

 

[Annie]

What would be an example of a liberal professor's realistic appraisal of the role America has played in the world?

I'll try to get to this later, I've got to run. You might want to try this 'advanced search' on Google: Open Source+america's fault+foreign policy

Domain: .edu

 

[Steerpike]

. I wish someone could give me an example to show me how my education has been compromised simply because my professors are realistic about the role America has played in the world.

You answer your own question in a way. By attaching the value judgment "realistic" to the philosophies of your liberal Profs, one could conclude there was indeed an effect. If liberal profs are "realistic" are conservative ones "unrealistic?" That's the implication, and if that's how you view things then I think you open up at least the potential that liberal bias had an effect on you. If you put someone in a school full of conservative bias, they're likely to view the conservative viewpoint as the correct or realistic one.

 

[Annie]

You answer your own question in a way. By attaching the value judgment "realistic" to the philosophies of your liberal Profs, one could conclude there was indeed an effect. If liberal profs are "realistic" are conservative ones "unrealistic?" That's the implication, and if that's how you view things then I think you open up at least the potential that liberal bias had an effect on you. If you put someone in a school full of conservative bias, they're likely to view the conservative viewpoint as the correct or realistic one.

Good practical example.

I had a chance to run my search. Open Source didn't work in this context, so I substituted 'lecture notes' and up popped this example of what is passing for a 'critique' which is short on analysis, but great on hyperbole and 'gotcha'. It's interesting, well written, and funny too. Considering though when written, and the audience, there certainly could have been more of the analysis.

It's part of this course, which a look see through the readings and you'll see it's basically aimed at taking down the Republicans, rather than a real discussion of The American Presidency for Political Science or International Relations students.

Now one could say, one class, one professor. Sure, except there has been years long drum beat of the university being part and parcel of this same sort of slant:

http://cornellsun.com/node/24737

When Ann Coulter appeared, she needed protection. The following is by David Horowitz, but note that Salon chose to print it, back in 2004:

http://archive.salon.com/news/col/horo/2001/05/21/coulter/index.html

The liberal skewed drumbeat on most major universities is pretty loud. In a way, they are much like a messageboard writ large. At any given one, there is a prevailing point of view or prism. Some come closer to balance than others, some are more or less moderated. Having spent more time than most in universities I venture to say most students come out fine. In many cases today I hear that the freshmen are often to the left of the professors, thanks to high school indoctination. Of course the professors tend to draw them back, since the arguments are not only left, but more often than not incoherent.

A few years out of university, nearly all are thinking on their own.

Or are they? I know the above was true, at least 15 years ago. Today however, even many well educated parents are not reading the newspapers or discussing issues of the times with their children-that begins when the kids are 9 years old, not 23. When the values of the parents are not handed down, when high school teacher or university professors become the first 'intellectuals' to treat a person as if their opinion mattered, how much influence to they have?

I could go on, but this is a starting post.

 

[Psychoblues]

'Zat all you got? Pitiful. Tell your lies in a more closed conversation.

 

[midcan5]

'Liberal' education is the same BS as the so called liberal MSM. While there are liberals in college - I hope there would be - there are just as many conservatives and just as many in the middle somewhere. Many private schools are actually conservative and that is where the monied and the economically powerful come from. The students I know pretty much reflect their parents values or stray little from their values. We have lots of teachers in our family as well and most are conservative. I find this constant conservative effort to label others liberal, because liberal is supposed to a bad thing, an abuse of reality and puzzling.

 

[Steerpike]

While there are liberals in college - I hope there would be - there are just as many conservatives and just as many in the middle somewhere.

That's not the case. A study done in 2005 showed that 72 % of college faculty identify themselves as liberals. In elite schools it was over 80%.

So the "just as many" argument doesn't fly. That's also substantially higher than the number of people in the general population who described themselves as "liberal." A Harris poll that same year put that number at about 18%.

 

[liberalogic]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what conservatives would like taught in college? This bias still seems to be quite vague to me. And when I referred to America's realistic role in the world, I mainly meant U.S. imperialism.

 

[Bern80]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what conservatives would like taught in college? This bias still seems to be quite vague to me. And when I referred to America's realistic role in the world, I mainly meant U.S. imperialism.

It becomes more prevalent in social sciences then the 'hard' sciences. But it's getting bad there too with profs pushing man-made global warming and all. I saw plenty of it (left bias) as a poli-sci major. One prof went so far as to make sure we knew he was a socialist.

Honestly I don't have much beef with what is taught, worthless as I may believe it to be. There was no shortage of classes for woman's studies, feminism, peace, social justice, animal rights, etc. at the college I went to. Though we were just the second college in the nation to have a men's studies program. My thought is if your gonna pay money to learn something eventually I would think you would want some kind of return on your investment.

As I alluded to in another thread, it seems college is no longer (and maybe it never was) a place to prepare people for life after college. They don't seem to teach much that is going to aid you in a career other than your pre-med, pre-dent, education. I think it would be great if colleges taught more in the area of personal finance. How many kids comeing out of college know the ropes of purchasing there first home? Or how many get suckered into credit cards each year?

 

[midcan5]

That's not the case. A study done in 2005 showed that 72 % of college faculty identify themselves as liberals. In elite schools it was over 80%.

So the "just as many" argument doesn't fly. That's also substantially higher than the number of people in the general population who described themselves as "liberal." A Harris poll that same year put that number at about 18%.

I agree that the number is higher at that level but the formative years are before that and most grade school and high school teachers I know lean toward middle of the road or conservative.

And when asked that question you can take several points of view. Are you liberal in the sense you allow more freedom for others or another pov, the bad image that liberals are tax and spend welfare supporters. In America I think we are more liberal than conservative given our freedoms and basic tolerance of others, but many would never say they were as it just has become a bad word.

 

[Steerpike]

I'd have to look at the study to see if they were talking about politically "liberal" or about something else. The article I read gave the impression that it was "political" but I haven't seen the study.

I think liberal people are supposed to be tolerant. I certainly think of myself in that regard. But as much as I hate to say it the most intolerant professors I had in college (and there were only a few thankfully) were all very left-leaning and were willing to go to the length of hurting grades over ideological differences. I had one professor I can think of who was extremely conservative, but he didn't penalize me for disagreeing with him.

My experience may not be representative, but that's where I'm coming from subjectively when I look at the issue.

 

[Bern80]

I'd have to look at the study to see if they were talking about politically "liberal" or about something else. The article I read gave the impression that it was "political" but I haven't seen the study.

I think liberal people are supposed to be tolerant. I certainly think of myself in that regard. But as much as I hate to say it the most intolerant professors I had in college (and there were only a few thankfully) were all very left-leaning and were willing to go to the length of hurting grades over ideological differences. I had one professor I can think of who was extremely conservative, but he didn't penalize me for disagreeing with him.

My experience may not be representative, but that's where I'm coming from subjectively when I look at the issue.

You need look no further than this board to see that the liberal trait of being tolerant is a myth. They don't have a corner on tollerance and more than the right has corner on family values. It occurs on both sides and I wouldn't generalize in saying that a trait of liberalism is actually intollerance (though I've seen a lot of it), I just don't think tollerance is an indicative trait of either ideology. Indeed I experienced much of the same intollerance in college as you did from liberal campus groups to teachers.

 

[midcan5]

Honestly I don't have much beef with what is taught, worthless as I may believe it to be. There was no shortage of classes for woman's studies, feminism, peace, social justice, animal rights, etc. at the college I went to. Though we were just the second college in the nation to have a men's studies program. My thought is if your gonna pay money to learn something eventually I would think you would want some kind of return on your investment.

Bern, good post. I agree there are a lot of bizarre silly courses but no one makes you take them. What I found annoying was some of the best and hardest courses were canceled because the prof was too hard or the subject only interested a few majors that semester. I enjoyed classes where you were challenged and I have to admit I found the teacher's political position irrelevant. Except for hard sciences what you learn may not be pertinent in the work place. Our son was a math major and wanted to teach until he did it, then decided their love of math didn't match his and went into programming where he makes 2 or 3 times a teacher's salary. It is often hard to know what you want to be when you grow up.

 

[Steerpike]

You need look no further than this board to see that the liberal trait of being tolerant is a myth. They don't have a corner on tollerance and more than the right has corner on family values. It occurs on both sides and I wouldn't generalize in saying that a trait of liberalism is actually intollerance (though I've seen a lot of it), I just don't think tollerance is an indicative trait of either ideology. Indeed I experienced much of the same intollerance in college as you did from liberal campus groups to teachers.

Yes, it is unfortunate.

I am pretty liberal, particularly on social issues, but I believe firmly in tolerance and fairness, and I don't think the majority are exempted from that tolerance (e.g. I think Christians deserve as much tolerance and respect for their religion or belief system as anyone else, which isn't a position all of my liberal colleagues share).

It seems to me too many liberals apply tolerance to preferred groups (i.e. groups it is politically correct to be tolerant of) and withhold it from other groups where it is PC to withhold it. Thus, you can't say anything bad about Islam in many liberal circles, but you can bash Christianity all day long. I think that is dishonest and hypocritical.

I think we should all respect each others beliefs, religious or non-religious. We should not incorporate those beliefs into law, of course, so that they are forced upon all members of society, but we have to realize that the Constitution protects the right of all religious peoples to freely practice their religion. That's why is a teacher wants to wear a cross to school, she should be able to without fear of retribution by the government. If another teacher wants to wear the star of David, then fine. If a third wants to wear an Islamic symbol, great. Unfortunately, I think many liberal groups would intervene in the case of the Islamic symbol, or respect for Islam, but would become mute in the case of the Christian.

(btw - I am not Christian)

 

[Bern80]

Bern, good post. I agree there are a lot of bizarre silly courses but no one makes you take them. What I found annoying was some of the best and hardest courses were canceled because the prof was too hard or the subject only interested a few majors that semester. I enjoyed classes where you were challenged and I have to admit I found the teacher's political position irrelevant. Except for hard sciences what you learn may not be pertinent in the work place. Our son was a math major and wanted to teach until he did it, then decided their love of math didn't match his and went into programming where he makes 2 or 3 times a teacher's salary. It is often hard to know what you want to be when you grow up.

Definately. You can't help but be interested in classes like that (I'm still ticked I missed out on the animal rights class for no other reason than to heckle the professor). And where else are you going to get an opprtunity to learn about stuff like that?

But I still think of college as an investment and like I said, I don't see a lot of real world return on that.

So you got me thinking of a solution. How about instead of paying by the credit, no matter what classes you're taking, we place a value on classes? You could do a supply and demand type system or based on real world application value.

 

[Shogun]

ACLU Defense of Freedom of Religious Practice and Expression
http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/26526res20060824.html


some people choose not to look too hard for evidence when slinging mud is mroe fun. While it's issues like a smoking ban that seem to bring out intolorant liberals I'm pretty sure that a pie in Ann Coulters face is not reflective on the population of liberals any more than fred phelps is reflective of conservatives.

Further, i'm pretty sure that claiming it's the liberal element on this board that is rife with intolorance is a knee slapping joke when considering the inquisition-like nature of this place a year ago. It sure as hell wasn't the liberals banning people quicker than light travels. Indeed, if anything, it's the liberal element that allows such loose moderation that you all seem to enjoy so much.

i'm just saying.