Prisoners ---- Cost --- Consequences

[Sonny Clark]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

 

[Moonglow]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

 

[Roadrunner]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

For thousands of years societies solved the crime problem with fines, corporal, and capital punishment.

Lengthy imprisonment was reserved for the personal enemies of tyrants, and was what was considered "cruel and unusual".

Now, 250 years after the idea of "corrections" began to be put into practice, we have a huge prison industry.

I think the idea has failed.

If a person cannot be cured of his criminal activities by a good flogging, or confiscation of money and or property, perhaps it is just better to shoot the SOB and be done with him.

Would we suffer as a nation if somehow all the long term offenders we are wasting billions on were just suddenly "gone"?

I think not.

 

[Roadrunner]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

 

[Moonglow]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

It is a part time job, with full time benefits...

 

[Sonny Clark]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

For thousands of years societies solved the crime problem with fines, corporal, and capital punishment.

Lengthy imprisonment was reserved for the personal enemies of tyrants, and was what was considered "cruel and unusual".

Now, 250 years after the idea of "corrections" began to be put into practice, we have a huge prison industry.

I think the idea has failed.

If a person cannot be cured of his criminal activities by a good flogging, or confiscation of money and or property, perhaps it is just better to shoot the SOB and be done with him.

Would we suffer as a nation if somehow all the long term offenders we are wasting billions on were just suddenly "gone"?

I think not.

Yes, the astronomical amount of money we spend is in no way justified, nor does our prisons and jails have a rehabilitation record anyone can brag about. It's wasted money, and the sentences are ridiculous in most cases. But, the prison systems are money makers, and no one wants to cut their own throats in order to correct the situation.

 

[Roadrunner]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

It is a part time job, with full time benefits...

That is why I oppose term limits; you just get a much greater number of assholes on unreal retirement plans more akin to winning a minor lottery jackpot of a few million than to the retirement most citizens get.

 

[Moonglow]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

For thousands of years societies solved the crime problem with fines, corporal, and capital punishment.

Lengthy imprisonment was reserved for the personal enemies of tyrants, and was what was considered "cruel and unusual".

Now, 250 years after the idea of "corrections" began to be put into practice, we have a huge prison industry.

I think the idea has failed.

If a person cannot be cured of his criminal activities by a good flogging, or confiscation of money and or property, perhaps it is just better to shoot the SOB and be done with him.

Would we suffer as a nation if somehow all the long term offenders we are wasting billions on were just suddenly "gone"?

I think not.

Yes, the astronomical amount of money we spend is in no way justified, nor does our prison and jails have a rehabilitation record anyone can brag about. It's wasted money, and the sentences are ridiculous in most cases. But, the prison systems are money makers, and no one wants to cut their own throats in order to correct the situation.

The proliferation of associated members and organizations have put their hands into the pockets of the tax payer and the defendant...Charging for services and fees, now most jails charge to the defendant for jail time adding to the amount to pay back..Cities and counties have initiated drug funds, alcohol funds to be added into the penalties of conviction...

 

[Roadrunner]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

For thousands of years societies solved the crime problem with fines, corporal, and capital punishment.

Lengthy imprisonment was reserved for the personal enemies of tyrants, and was what was considered "cruel and unusual".

Now, 250 years after the idea of "corrections" began to be put into practice, we have a huge prison industry.

I think the idea has failed.

If a person cannot be cured of his criminal activities by a good flogging, or confiscation of money and or property, perhaps it is just better to shoot the SOB and be done with him.

Would we suffer as a nation if somehow all the long term offenders we are wasting billions on were just suddenly "gone"?

I think not.

Yes, the astronomical amount of money we spend is in no way justified, nor does our prison and jails have a rehabilitation record anyone can brag about. It's wasted money, and the sentences are ridiculous in most cases. But, the prison systems are money makers, and no one wants to cut their own throats in order to correct the situation.

Too many in prison that should not be there because their crimes were non-violent, and too many there that should have just been executed in a fair, timely manner.

 

[Roadrunner]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

For thousands of years societies solved the crime problem with fines, corporal, and capital punishment.

Lengthy imprisonment was reserved for the personal enemies of tyrants, and was what was considered "cruel and unusual".

Now, 250 years after the idea of "corrections" began to be put into practice, we have a huge prison industry.

I think the idea has failed.

If a person cannot be cured of his criminal activities by a good flogging, or confiscation of money and or property, perhaps it is just better to shoot the SOB and be done with him.

Would we suffer as a nation if somehow all the long term offenders we are wasting billions on were just suddenly "gone"?

I think not.

Yes, the astronomical amount of money we spend is in no way justified, nor does our prison and jails have a rehabilitation record anyone can brag about. It's wasted money, and the sentences are ridiculous in most cases. But, the prison systems are money makers, and no one wants to cut their own throats in order to correct the situation.

The proliferation of associated members and organizations have put their hands into the pockets of the tax payer and the defendant...Charging for services and fees, now most jails charge to the defendant for jail time adding to the amount to pay back..Cities and counties have initiated drug funds, alcohol funds to be added into the penalties of conviction...

It is not called the CRIMINAL Justice System for nothing.

 

[rightwinger]

We need to change our drug laws, they are not working

Also end nondescretionary sentencing

 

[Roadrunner]

We need to change our drug laws, they are not working

Also end nondescretionary sentencing

I think all drugs should be legal, and, pure.

That takes crime out of it.

If free will individuals can't handle their dope, and wreck shit and OD, I bet the toll would still be much less than the drug related death and destruction we see with drugs being illegal.

Time to try something new, legalize drugs, and make violent crimes capital offenses in a streamlined justice system that can carry out an execution of a rightfully convicted violent offender in a year.

 

[rightwinger]

We need to change our drug laws, they are not working

Also end nondescretionary sentencing

I think all drugs should be legal, and, pure.

That takes crime out of it.

If free will individuals can't handle their dope, and wreck shit and OD, I bet the toll would still be much less than the drug related death and destruction we see with drugs being illegal.

Time to try something new, legalize drugs, and make violent crimes capital offenses in a streamlined justice system that can carry out an execution of a rightfully convicted violent offender in a year.

I agree.......the "solution" is worse than the crime

We take a basically victimless crime and create a criminal market for it where none would otherwise exist

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

move to New Hampshire

 

[Roadrunner]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

move to New Hampshire

Southerners can't move to New Hampshire.

We wither and die.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Prisons, jails, and detention centers are all necessary. But, are the associated costs justified? And, are we fitting the time behind bars to the severity of the offense? Also, are we actually rehabilitating inmates, and putting them back into society with the necessary tools to be productive? Our incarcerated population is the largest among developed countries, and growing. Why? What are the factors behind our criminal statistics?

http://www.vera.org/sites/default/f...s/price-of-prisons-updated-version-021914.pdf

Forty-one States Took Action to Mitigate Collateral Consequences of a Criminal Conviction from 2009-2014 Vera Institute of Justice

One of the major negatives of our judicial system is placing innocent citizens behind bars, in some cases, for many years.

The Innocence Project - About Us

Another major issue and concern, is the number of convictions based on circumstantial cases. These cases are basically nothing more than "could've been", "might have been". "yes, it's possible", "my gut feeling tells me he/she is guilty", and other human emotional factors not based on hard, rock solid, undeniable, undisputable evidence. These cases are often a contest between the defense and the prosecutor, to see which one has the most talented silver tongue, and can smooth talk a jury to lean their way. These are the most troubling cases to accept, and often result in convicting an innocent person.

What is troubling to many taxpayers, are the prison amenities which make punishment seem almost like living in a resort. Should we provide inmates with better meals than we provide for our children in our public schools?

Prison amenities

Career criminals and repeat offenders should be dealt with as severely as our laws will allow. But, minor offenses, and first time offenders of non-violent crimes, should be considerations for less severe punishment and incarcerated for the absolute minimum considered to be reform or rehabilitation. We have a system gone awry, and it's costing the taxpayers dollars that could be put to use for more important and much needed causes.

Your thoughts?

For thousands of years societies solved the crime problem with fines, corporal, and capital punishment.

Lengthy imprisonment was reserved for the personal enemies of tyrants, and was what was considered "cruel and unusual".

Now, 250 years after the idea of "corrections" began to be put into practice, we have a huge prison industry.

I think the idea has failed.

If a person cannot be cured of his criminal activities by a good flogging, or confiscation of money and or property, perhaps it is just better to shoot the SOB and be done with him.

Would we suffer as a nation if somehow all the long term offenders we are wasting billions on were just suddenly "gone"?

I think not.

Yes, the astronomical amount of money we spend is in no way justified, nor does our prisons and jails have a rehabilitation record anyone can brag about. It's wasted money, and the sentences are ridiculous in most cases. But, the prison systems are money makers, and no one wants to cut their own throats in order to correct the situation.

The huge flaw in your argument is the fact that a tiny percentage of a fraction or the nation would lose anything. We have no throat in the game so to speak.

The "wasted money, and the sentences are ridiculous" part of your post is easily agreed to. Facts are hard to argue with. Without leadership on this issue nothing will change. It has little (but not nothing) to do with those with skin in the game of keeping it as it is.What we get is demagogues like Rand Paul. That's not the kind of leadership we need

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

move to New Hampshire

Southerners can't move to New Hampshire.

We wither and die.

New Englanders move down south and melt into wingnuts, why not move to NH and freeze into a Neocon?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We need to change our drug laws, they are not working

Also end nondescretionary sentencing

I think all drugs should be legal, and, pure.

That takes crime out of it.

If free will individuals can't handle their dope, and wreck shit and OD, I bet the toll would still be much less than the drug related death and destruction we see with drugs being illegal.

Time to try something new, legalize drugs, and make violent crimes capital offenses in a streamlined justice system that can carry out an execution of a rightfully convicted violent offender in a year.

I agree.......the "solution" is worse than the crime

We take a basically victimless crime and create a criminal market for it where none would otherwise exist

populism at it's ugliest

 

[rightwinger]

We need to change our drug laws, they are not working

Also end nondescretionary sentencing

I think all drugs should be legal, and, pure.

That takes crime out of it.

If free will individuals can't handle their dope, and wreck shit and OD, I bet the toll would still be much less than the drug related death and destruction we see with drugs being illegal.

Time to try something new, legalize drugs, and make violent crimes capital offenses in a streamlined justice system that can carry out an execution of a rightfully convicted violent offender in a year.

I agree.......the "solution" is worse than the crime

We take a basically victimless crime and create a criminal market for it where none would otherwise exist

populism at it's ugliest

Politician.....I am tougher on drugs than you are

 

[Roadrunner]

Let the politicians use a penitentiary for legislative operations.Lock them up and don't let them leave until the session is over...

Congress should be limited to fiscal matters for the first year of a term, and legislative for the second.

It should also be a part-time job.

move to New Hampshire

Southerners can't move to New Hampshire.

We wither and die.

New Englanders move down south and melt into wingnuts, why not move to NH and freeze into a Neocon?

One of the mysteries of nature.

You can't transplant a Southerner.

I've been all over, only the South feels like home.

It's in the DNA.