President Bush and top administration officials issued 935 false statements on Iraq

[JiggsCasey]

Unfucken believable. The Senate and the House did 3 SEPARATE investigations on this and found NO lies were told. No purposeful misinformation was given. Both Republican and Democratic controlled congress did these investigations. You leftwing bullshit artists are out to rewrite history again.

GIVE IT A REST. There is ZERO evidence that President Bush lied to the American people. ZERO evidence Cheney lied to the American people. ZERO evidence Bush administration lied to the American people. 9 years later 2 bullshit artists make shit up and you retards are right back to claiming what never happened did.

Tell ya what? The NEXT time I hear one of you belly ache about a birther thread I am going to remind you you lie and distort about Bush. Give it a rest already.

This is completely false. When it comes to an allegation of re-writing history, you're being poetically ironic. ... Liar.


Bush, Advisers Misled US on Iraq: Senate Report

Bush, Advisers Misled US on Iraq: Senate Report - Dem-led committee blasts administration; Republicans dismiss 'partisan exercise'

The Bush administration distorted facts in justifying the invasion of Iraq and overstated Saddam Hussein’s links to al-Qaeda, a long-delayed report from the Senate intelligence committee concludes. Bush and his advisers also ignored doubts about Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction in constructing their case for military action, Reuters reports.

"Representing to the American people that [Iraq and al-Qaeda] had an operational partnership and posed a single, indistinguishable threat was fundamentally misleading and led the nation to war on false pretenses," Democrat John Rockefeller said.​

Senate Intelligence Committee: Bush and Cheney Misled us on Iraq
Senate Intelligence Committee: Bush and Cheney Misled us on Iraq | World | AlterNet

The Committee also released a second report Thursday on a series of initially secret meetings in Rome and Paris between neo-conservative Pentagon officials and alleged Iranian dissidents, including a notorious Iranian arms dealer, Manucher Ghobanifar who played a key role in the so-called Iran-Contra affair of the mid-1980s.

The report found that the meetings, which also included another Iran-Contra player, Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), were authorized by then-Deputy National Security Adviser (currently National Security Adviser) Stephen Hadley and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz who, it concluded, failed to keep relevant intelligence agencies and the State Department informed.

"The report found that the clandestine meetings … were inappropriate and mishandled from beginning to end" and that "senior Defense Department officials cut short internal investigations of the meetings … " after they became known, a press release issued by the committee stated.​

And (R) Hagel and (R) Snowe endorsed the findings:

"We endorse the reports as the final chapter of the Committee's inquiry into prewar intelligence with regard to Iraq." In the "Additional Views" document, Hagel and Snowe also asserted: "The report accomplished its primary objective, unanimously agreed to by the committee: to evaluate 'whether public statements and reports and testimony regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials made between the Gulf War period and the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom were substantiated by intelligence information.' "​

This is why this country is at war with itself, and why we can't stand dyed-in-the-wool con men.... You're just incapable of honesty.

Meanwhile, pro-war con men like this one gets caught in the most blatant lie of the thread, and his loyal allies never call him out on it.

We understand... Different when your guys do it.

 

[CMike]

Unfucken believable. The Senate and the House did 3 SEPARATE investigations on this and found NO lies were told. No purposeful misinformation was given. Both Republican and Democratic controlled congress did these investigations. You leftwing bullshit artists are out to rewrite history again.

GIVE IT A REST. There is ZERO evidence that President Bush lied to the American people. ZERO evidence Cheney lied to the American people. ZERO evidence Bush administration lied to the American people. 9 years later 2 bullshit artists make shit up and you retards are right back to claiming what never happened did.

Tell ya what? The NEXT time I hear one of you belly ache about a birther thread I am going to remind you you lie and distort about Bush. Give it a rest already.

This is completely false. When it comes to an allegation of re-writing history, you're being poetically ironic. ... Liar.


Bush, Advisers Misled US on Iraq: Senate Report

Bush, Advisers Misled US on Iraq: Senate Report - Dem-led committee blasts administration; Republicans dismiss 'partisan exercise'

The Bush administration distorted facts in justifying the invasion of Iraq and overstated Saddam Hussein’s links to al-Qaeda, a long-delayed report from the Senate intelligence committee concludes. Bush and his advisers also ignored doubts about Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction in constructing their case for military action, Reuters reports.

"Representing to the American people that [Iraq and al-Qaeda] had an operational partnership and posed a single, indistinguishable threat was fundamentally misleading and led the nation to war on false pretenses," Democrat John Rockefeller said.​

Senate Intelligence Committee: Bush and Cheney Misled us on Iraq
Senate Intelligence Committee: Bush and Cheney Misled us on Iraq | World | AlterNet

The Committee also released a second report Thursday on a series of initially secret meetings in Rome and Paris between neo-conservative Pentagon officials and alleged Iranian dissidents, including a notorious Iranian arms dealer, Manucher Ghobanifar who played a key role in the so-called Iran-Contra affair of the mid-1980s.

The report found that the meetings, which also included another Iran-Contra player, Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), were authorized by then-Deputy National Security Adviser (currently National Security Adviser) Stephen Hadley and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz who, it concluded, failed to keep relevant intelligence agencies and the State Department informed.

"The report found that the clandestine meetings … were inappropriate and mishandled from beginning to end" and that "senior Defense Department officials cut short internal investigations of the meetings … " after they became known, a press release issued by the committee stated.​

And (R) Hagel and (R) Snowe endorsed the findings:

"We endorse the reports as the final chapter of the Committee's inquiry into prewar intelligence with regard to Iraq." In the "Additional Views" document, Hagel and Snowe also asserted: "The report accomplished its primary objective, unanimously agreed to by the committee: to evaluate 'whether public statements and reports and testimony regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials made between the Gulf War period and the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom were substantiated by intelligence information.' "​

This is why this country is at war with itself, and why we can't stand dyed-in-the-wool con men.... You're just incapable of honesty.

Try getting your information from other places than lying radical left wing blogs and maybe you will be taken seriously from other people than the most guillible.

 

[Modbert]

You mistakenly left out the link

YouTube - Greatest movie line ever!

Uh no, I never left out anything. And you can keep posting that all you like, it won't effect me as I'm not a Democrat.

But again, this is evidence that you are not only a hack but have no real intentions of having a constructive conversation.

 

[CMike]

Unfucken believable. The Senate and the House did 3 SEPARATE investigations on this and found NO lies were told. No purposeful misinformation was given. Both Republican and Democratic controlled congress did these investigations. You leftwing bullshit artists are out to rewrite history again.

GIVE IT A REST. There is ZERO evidence that President Bush lied to the American people. ZERO evidence Cheney lied to the American people. ZERO evidence Bush administration lied to the American people. 9 years later 2 bullshit artists make shit up and you retards are right back to claiming what never happened did.

Tell ya what? The NEXT time I hear one of you belly ache about a birther thread I am going to remind you you lie and distort about Bush. Give it a rest already.

This is completely false. When it comes to an allegation of re-writing history, you're being poetically ironic. ... Liar.


Bush, Advisers Misled US on Iraq: Senate Report

Bush, Advisers Misled US on Iraq: Senate Report - Dem-led committee blasts administration; Republicans dismiss 'partisan exercise'

The Bush administration distorted facts in justifying the invasion of Iraq and overstated Saddam Hussein’s links to al-Qaeda, a long-delayed report from the Senate intelligence committee concludes. Bush and his advisers also ignored doubts about Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction in constructing their case for military action, Reuters reports.

"Representing to the American people that [Iraq and al-Qaeda] had an operational partnership and posed a single, indistinguishable threat was fundamentally misleading and led the nation to war on false pretenses," Democrat John Rockefeller said.​

Senate Intelligence Committee: Bush and Cheney Misled us on Iraq
Senate Intelligence Committee: Bush and Cheney Misled us on Iraq | World | AlterNet

The Committee also released a second report Thursday on a series of initially secret meetings in Rome and Paris between neo-conservative Pentagon officials and alleged Iranian dissidents, including a notorious Iranian arms dealer, Manucher Ghobanifar who played a key role in the so-called Iran-Contra affair of the mid-1980s.

The report found that the meetings, which also included another Iran-Contra player, Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), were authorized by then-Deputy National Security Adviser (currently National Security Adviser) Stephen Hadley and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz who, it concluded, failed to keep relevant intelligence agencies and the State Department informed.

"The report found that the clandestine meetings … were inappropriate and mishandled from beginning to end" and that "senior Defense Department officials cut short internal investigations of the meetings … " after they became known, a press release issued by the committee stated.​

And (R) Hagel and (R) Snowe endorsed the findings:

"We endorse the reports as the final chapter of the Committee's inquiry into prewar intelligence with regard to Iraq." In the "Additional Views" document, Hagel and Snowe also asserted: "The report accomplished its primary objective, unanimously agreed to by the committee: to evaluate 'whether public statements and reports and testimony regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials made between the Gulf War period and the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom were substantiated by intelligence information.' "​

This is why this country is at war with itself, and why we can't stand dyed-in-the-wool con men.... You're just incapable of honesty.

Meanwhile, pro-war con men like this one gets caught in the most blatant lie of the thread, and his loyal allies never call him out on it.

We understand... Different when your guys do it.

Okay, other than quoting from these crazed left wing blogs, why don't you post these alleged lies, so we can show you that your position is stupid and bullshit?

 

[CMike]

You mistakenly left out the link

YouTube - Greatest movie line ever!

Uh no, I never left out anything. And you can keep posting that all you like, it won't effect me as I'm not a Democrat.

But again, this is evidence that you are not only a hack but have no real intentions of having a constructive conversation.

Okay happy to help.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA0nld86tGw]YouTube - Greatest movie line ever![/ame]

 

[JiggsCasey]

Okay, other than quoting from these crazed left wing blogs, why don't you post these alleged lies, so we can show you that your position is stupid and bullshit?

Well, tool box... Are you suggesting that the Senate report was from a blog? Did it not occur?

Read the report, moron. It's all over the web, so you can take your pick of the source and not punt to claim "liberal blog" agenda.

They spelled out numerous examples of willful fraud. Fact is, your buddy over there claimed the opposite of the Senate reports, that no lies were found. Misled = fraud. I know that's hard for a con man to get his head around, but there it is.

They willfully lied about WMD, even so far as to create their own intel branch and policy group (WHIGs) to form the intel they wanted. Just admit it, else you look really foolish all these years later with a glacier of empirical evidence staring you directly in the face. Next you'll be telling us that what Tricky Dick did was not obstruction of justice in 1972.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm not STOOPID...your STOOPID



(I WIN two to one )

stupid or not you do a great job of avoiding answering questions.....like post no. 40....if Bush was lying so were many leaders from around the world.........

How many of those leaders joined the "Coalition of the willing"?

They were obviously intelligent enough to realize Iraq was not a threat. So was UN weapons inspector Hans Blix

so Bush is guilty of ACTING on this...not lying about it....and lets face it Rw....as a British cabby on the news once said(not talking about Iraq).....whenever there is a legitimate situation in the world were troops are needed.....only the Brits and the US and 2-3 other countries are willing to deal with it....everybody else.....all talk ....

 

[elvis]

I'm not STOOPID...your STOOPID



(I WIN two to one )

stupid or not you do a great job of avoiding answering questions.....like post no. 40....if Bush was lying so were many leaders from around the world.........

How many of those leaders joined the "Coalition of the willing"?

They were obviously intelligent enough to realize Iraq was not a threat. So was UN weapons inspector Hans Blix

wasn't a threat? is that why clinton was bombing Iraq? or did you conveniently forget about his bombings and sanctions?

 

[Harry Dresden]

stupid or not you do a great job of avoiding answering questions.....like post no. 40....if Bush was lying so were many leaders from around the world.........

How many of those leaders joined the "Coalition of the willing"?

They were obviously intelligent enough to realize Iraq was not a threat. So was UN weapons inspector Hans Blix

I just loved it when the initial fighting was over and we found out about some of the major UN countries that were breaking the sanctions set up against Saddam.

and these assholes were on the Security Council.....proving the UN is useless....

 

[CMike]

Okay, other than quoting from these crazed left wing blogs, why don't you post these alleged lies, so we can show you that your position is stupid and bullshit?

Well, tool box... Are you suggesting that the Senate report was from a blog? Did it not occur?

Read the report, moron. It's all over the web, so you can take your pick of the source and not punt to claim "liberal blog" agenda.

They spelled out numerous examples of willful fraud. Fact is, your buddy over there claimed the opposite of the Senate reports, that no lies were found. Misled = fraud. I know that's hard for a con man to get his head around, but there it is.

They willfully lied about WMD, even so far as to create their own intel branch and policy group (WHIGs) to form the intel they wanted. Just admit it, else you look really foolish all these years later with a glacier of empirical evidence staring you directly in the face. Next you'll be telling us that what Tricky Dick did was not obstruction of justice in 1972.

Why don't you give one, in your own words?

FYI

What Democrats said about Weapons of Mass Destruction

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

 

[Harry Dresden]

Okay, other than quoting from these crazed left wing blogs, why don't you post these alleged lies, so we can show you that your position is stupid and bullshit?

Well, tool box... Are you suggesting that the Senate report was from a blog? Did it not occur?

Read the report, moron. It's all over the web, so you can take your pick of the source and not punt to claim "liberal blog" agenda.

They spelled out numerous examples of willful fraud. Fact is, your buddy over there claimed the opposite of the Senate reports, that no lies were found. Misled = fraud. I know that's hard for a con man to get his head around, but there it is.

They willfully lied about WMD, even so far as to create their own intel branch and policy group (WHIGs) to form the intel they wanted. Just admit it, else you look really foolish all these years later with a glacier of empirical evidence staring you directly in the face. Next you'll be telling us that what Tricky Dick did was not obstruction of justice in 1972.

Why don't you give one, in your own words?

FYI

What Democrats said about Weapons of Mass Destruction

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

apparently Mike these dont count because none of them sent troops in....Bush said the same thing his predecessor and all these others had said, and somehow he was lying.....all he was guilty of was ACTING on this Info.....

 

[American Horse]

It is vitally important for certain factions in this country (and clear thinking people know who they are) to discredit every word spoken by former President Bush. But every instance claiming that he was untruthful, or gave false statements is open to interpretation or to counter claims of his having been truthful.

It is pointless to take the claims one at a time because they have less credibility than Bush’s statements had at the time they were made, and have turned out. It is a well known fact that Saddam Hussein financed terrorist suicide bombers, if only by donating a large sum of money to the families of those who succeed in their suicide bombing attempts against western human targets. The skulls and skeletons of his victims show his willingness to murder many hundreds of thousands of his own citizens, by using poison gas; a mass destruction of human life.

One must ask why is it so important that these blackguards succeed in making Bush out as A liar? In my opinion, it is to discredit and set aside his accomplishments, particularly in national security, and foreign affairs so as create an atmosphere in which any candidate who would follow in hisfootsteps will be discredited and found, a priori. to be ignoble. That is so commonly understood that it makes his attackers less credible because their voices are so shrill, their agenda so obvious.

Going forward these tactics will fail because a preponderance of people who were paying attention during the historical moments as they actually played out know the history and the unanimity of the voices of the policymakers concurrent with the events. People pay closer attention, and are less sheep than our elite chattering classes are willing to accept.

It gets so old to hear these selfsame blackguards, such that responsible writers dedicated to and interested in an accurate historical account will be more persuasive than those who want so badly to destroy the accomplishments of Bush, so as to restore the status quo ante.

You can almost hear brain cells hitting supernova. Only a fucking backwoods wannabe fox commentator could actually try to argue people are so pissed at bush for his accomplishments that they seek to make him appear to be a liar to hide his accomplishments.

Listen up you fuxxing rice burning reject: the bush admin did not make us a more secure nation. They accomlished exactly the opposite but you're so fucking clueless about geo-politics 101 you actually think we are more safe due to policies by the bush admin.

My, you do have a talent for invective, hateful ad hominem attack, and for stringing words together to insult, rather than engage in any meaningful discussion. It’s sad to see one so sure of one’s self and at the same time be so unable to make a reasonable statement by posting a really convincing response.

So I’m going to be more civil to you than you were in your response to me in which you didn’t even do justice to what we might more commonly see in a high-school cafeteria, where you might be admired for your verbal daring by risking a poke on the nose.... but, on an anonymous message board...not so much, huh....?

You may well be better informed that I am about what you have correctly called “geo-politics," I can't really say.

One of the criticisms of Bush’s invasion of Saddam’s Iraq was that Saddam’s was a secular state, and therefore wouldn’t be allied with terrorists, whether Shiite or Sunni. But this theory completely discounts the Arabian proverb that “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”

Then there is the position that, since weapons of mass destruction were never found, they must not have ever existed in Iraq. Normally this premise would be easily countered as unsupportable because one supposedly can’t prove a negative simply because of a lack of evidence; but not in the case of the WMD of Iraq which even Saddam claimed, and as I said above, used poison gas against the Kurds in the north and the Shias in the South of Iraq.

Then we heard that Bush’s proconsul in Iraq, had royally screwed up by taking the Baathists out of the power structure, even to denying them jobs as officers in the military, thus depriving the birthing country the benefit of their valuable training, while causing them to swell the ranks of the unemployed, where their only option was joining the insurgency. But still today the Baathists are banned from running for political office by the Iraqis themselves. Looking back, banning them from the political power structure might well have prevented a blood bath, while it allows them to be forgiven over time by the people they tormented.

Then we heard that Iraq must necessarily fly apart. Our own Vice President Joe Biden called for dividing Iraq into three parts. (Even a "fucking backwoods wannabe fox commentator" like yours truly could see the pitfalls in that poorly conceived plan, but it was actually the best we could get from the side of the Loyal Opposition, at the time. Unlike you, I actually admire ole' Joe for his effort, misplaced as it was.)

The above are just the first few items that come to mind. I won't repeat the cliches.

As I said, you may well be better informed than am I about geo-politics; but as a point of personal privilege, since you called me out, I'll tell you what informs my comment on the subject. It is a long view of history combined with observing foreign international relations through history. Global politics as part of our national policy has been something that has interested me since I watched the Army/McCarthy hearings on TV in 1954 when I was 13.

The first time global politics impinged in my life in a personal and very direct way was as a Marine during the Cuban missile crisis in October of 1962, when we were put on standby as Soviet vessels approached our forces deployed in the Caribbean. I barely missed Viet Nam, but I educated myself on the French role in VN and their loss in the battle of Die Bien Phu in 1954 following WWII, which lead to our involvement. My long view of history evolves out of an enthusiasm for Roman and Greek history, particularly Roman. An interest in Rome leads to viewing Rome as a “global” power, studying its Law of Nations, Law of the Sea, and its Pax Romana, a view that can inform an opinion of the “Pax Americana”

Here’s a comment by Fouad Ajami, of Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies

“Forgive Vice President Joe Biden the audacity of claiming last month on CNN’s “Larry King Live” that Iraq is destined to be “one of the great achievements of this administration.” The larger point he made—that a representative government is taking hold in Baghdad—is on the mark.

As Iraq approaches its general elections on March 7, we should take yes for an answer. The American project in Iraq has mid-wifed that rarest of creatures in the Greater Middle east: a government that emerges out of the consent of the governed. We should trust the Iraqis with their own history. That means letting their electoral process play out against the background of the Arab dynasties and autocracies, and of the Iranian theocracy next door that made a mockery out of its own national elections.”

Ajami: “We can already see the outline of what our labor has created: a representative government, a bi-national state of Arabs and Kurds, and a country that does not bend to the will of one man or one ruling clan.”

Brett Stevens – Editorial writer for the Wall Street Journal, 9 March:

"In 2002, a presidential election was held in Iraq. Saddam Hussein won it by a margin of 11,445,638 to zero. "Whether that's because they love their leader—as many people said they do—or for other reasons, was hard to tell," reported CBS News's Tom Fenton from Baghdad.

You can't say they aren't fair and balanced over at CBS.

Another election has now been held in Iraq, this time involving 19 million voters, 50,000 polling stations, 6,200 candidates, 325 parliamentary seats and 86 parties. In the run-up to the vote, the general view among Iraqis and foreign observers alike was that the outcome was "too close to call." Linger over the words: "Too close to call" has never before been part of the Arab political lexicon.

But democracy has finally arrived, first by force of American arms, next by dint of Iraqi will. It's a remarkable thing, not just in the context of the past seven years of U.S. involvement, or the eight decades of Iraq's sovereign existence, but in the much longer sweep of Arab civilization. Paleontologists have described similar moments in evolution, when some natural cataclysm permits a nimbler class of animals to take the place of the planet's former masters.

Just so in Iraq: the Cretaceous period of the T Rex and the pterosaur is at last drawing to a close. George W. Bush, in all his subtlety, was their mass-extinction event."

Finally, in the words of former U.S. Embassador Ryan Crocker:

“In the end, what we leave behind and how we leave will be more important than how we came.”

 

[CurveLight]

stupid or not you do a great job of avoiding answering questions.....like post no. 40....if Bush was lying so were many leaders from around the world.........

How many of those leaders joined the "Coalition of the willing"?

They were obviously intelligent enough to realize Iraq was not a threat. So was UN weapons inspector Hans Blix

wasn't a threat? is that why clinton was bombing Iraq? or did you conveniently forget about his bombings and sanctions?

Oh cool! I love the "relevance" game. My turn! Robert e lee once put too much butter on toast, so iraq was a threat.

Hey dickweeds. Cheney said on 9/14/01 iraq was not a threat. Plus, could you all tell us about your Saddam Safety Day Drills? You know. How many times did you not go to work out of fear he would bomb us. For those with kids, what of precautions were taken to protect them in case saddam attacked? How many times did you cancel vacation plans out of fear saddam would bomb us? You fuxxing idiots.

 

[CurveLight]

American Horse, that post was so damn whiny and full of shit I couldn't possibly duplicate it via quoting. Iraq is now an Islamic Theocracy. Before we invaded it was arguably the most secular ME nation so how can you call it an achievement that the Bush admin installed an Islamic Theocracy while supposedly fighting Islamic extremists? Are you not aware of the regression of basic human rights in Iraq? We have never let the people of Iraq decide for themselves. All we did was look into tapping a quasi-partnership with the assholes that could help create the desired environment the bush admin sought. Also, there have never been insurgents in Iraq. Instead of scratching your head try learning what that term means instead of swallowing the bullshit the msm spoon feeds.

 

[elvis]

How many of those leaders joined the "Coalition of the willing"?

They were obviously intelligent enough to realize Iraq was not a threat. So was UN weapons inspector Hans Blix

wasn't a threat? is that why clinton was bombing Iraq? or did you conveniently forget about his bombings and sanctions?

Oh cool! I love the "relevance" game. My turn! Robert e lee once put too much butter on toast, so iraq was a threat.

Hey dickweeds. Cheney said on 9/14/01 iraq was not a threat. Plus, could you all tell us about your Saddam Safety Day Drills? You know. How many times did you not go to work out of fear he would bomb us. For those with kids, what of precautions were taken to protect them in case saddam attacked? How many times did you cancel vacation plans out of fear saddam would bomb us? You fuxxing idiots.

Learn that one from Alex Jones, did ya?

 

[CurveLight]

wasn't a threat? is that why clinton was bombing Iraq? or did you conveniently forget about his bombings and sanctions?

Oh cool! I love the "relevance" game. My turn! Robert e lee once put too much butter on toast, so iraq was a threat.

Hey dickweeds. Cheney said on 9/14/01 iraq was not a threat. Plus, could you all tell us about your Saddam Safety Day Drills? You know. How many times did you not go to work out of fear he would bomb us. For those with kids, what of precautions were taken to protect them in case saddam attacked? How many times did you cancel vacation plans out of fear saddam would bomb us? You fuxxing idiots.

Learn that one from Alex Jones, did ya?

Why bring up alex jones? Are you hoping for a distraction that is big enough to hide your stoopidity and ignorance?

 

[CMike]

I am still waiting for one alleged lie?

 

[Zona]

Damn these republicans are so full of crap.

 

[elvis]

Damn these republicans are so full of crap.

oh really racist? when did you become a republican?

 

[elvis]

Oh cool! I love the "relevance" game. My turn! Robert e lee once put too much butter on toast, so iraq was a threat.

Hey dickweeds. Cheney said on 9/14/01 iraq was not a threat. Plus, could you all tell us about your Saddam Safety Day Drills? You know. How many times did you not go to work out of fear he would bomb us. For those with kids, what of precautions were taken to protect them in case saddam attacked? How many times did you cancel vacation plans out of fear saddam would bomb us? You fuxxing idiots.

Learn that one from Alex Jones, did ya?

Why bring up alex jones? Are you hoping for a distraction that is big enough to hide your stoopidity and ignorance?

no, I was giving you an excuse for the giant strawman you built.