PredFan vs the Union

[PredFan]

History:

Our hospital does the bulk of indigent and medicare/medicaid patients in the Orlando area. We have the designated trauma center for the Central Florida Area. Obamacare has drastically cut back the amout of money that the government gives to doctors and hospitals for medicaid/medicare. This resulted in losses for the hospital system.

As of a few months ago, management has been making cuts to stop the bleeding of money, these have included cutting non-patient care positions, and cutting back on management staff among many other cost-saving measures. All of us have been concerned for months about our jobs and still don't know how many will lose their jobs. The most recent cost-saving measure was to cut the night shift differential. That is the exctra pay incentive for working the night shift.

That move has enraged a large portion of the night shift personel and so much so that they now have union representation.

- - - -

I am and have always been anti-union. My mind has not changed on this matter. Still the question is of what I will do. I want to keep my job, I like my job, but I think unions are destructive and abusive. Certainly this hospital system cannot survive as is with union employees. Should I care? I'm 57, my IRA is pretty well set up and I only need 10 years to retire. I do care that patient care will be adversly affected but what can a lone voice crying nin the wilderness do?

If the whole hospital staff goes union will I go as well? How will I handle that and what will I do if a strike is called? I tend to think I will cross the line for my patients but is that worth the abuse from the union people?

Where do union people think money comes from, that's what I want to know. This system is losing 11 million dollars a year and if we make no cuts in staff or pay, what DO we cut?

The other two hospital systems in this town are a Nemours and severl of the Seventh Day Adventist hiospitals. All of them have very deep pockets while our hospital system is local and does not. That plus union employees spells bad things for the hospital and our patients.

As others have pointed out, the real problem is your boy Rick Scott is the one who has refused to expand Medicare unless private insurance companies are managing it. (Rick worked for Private Insurance before going into politics.)

Not in the lest true. I'll trust the experts here instread of your left wing bull shit.

 

[PredFan]

Moved to proper forum

Thanks. I realized too late where it should have been.

 

[PredFan]

History:

Our hospital does the bulk of indigent and medicare/medicaid patients in the Orlando area. We have the designated trauma center for the Central Florida Area. Obamacare has drastically cut back the amout of money that the government gives to doctors and hospitals for medicaid/medicare. This resulted in losses for the hospital system.

As of a few months ago, management has been making cuts to stop the bleeding of money, these have included cutting non-patient care positions, and cutting back on management staff among many other cost-saving measures. All of us have been concerned for months about our jobs and still don't know how many will lose their jobs. The most recent cost-saving measure was to cut the night shift differential. That is the exctra pay incentive for working the night shift.

That move has enraged a large portion of the night shift personel and so much so that they now have union representation.

- - - -

I am and have always been anti-union. My mind has not changed on this matter. Still the question is of what I will do. I want to keep my job, I like my job, but I think unions are destructive and abusive. Certainly this hospital system cannot survive as is with union employees. Should I care? I'm 57, my IRA is pretty well set up and I only need 10 years to retire. I do care that patient care will be adversly affected but what can a lone voice crying nin the wilderness do?

If the whole hospital staff goes union will I go as well? How will I handle that and what will I do if a strike is called? I tend to think I will cross the line for my patients but is that worth the abuse from the union people?

Where do union people think money comes from, that's what I want to know. This system is losing 11 million dollars a year and if we make no cuts in staff or pay, what DO we cut?

The other two hospital systems in this town are a Nemours and severl of the Seventh Day Adventist hiospitals. All of them have very deep pockets while our hospital system is local and does not. That plus union employees spells bad things for the hospital and our patients.

Is the differential pay for midnight shift needed in order to get a good staff working the midnight shift? I worked at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, (In the Blood Bank) in my youth, and I don't think we would have had anyone working in the hospital on midnight shift if the hospital did not pay the differential pay...

They still have a diffrerential pay, it has just been slashed. It was at a level that was very high, now it's been slashed to something more along the lines of the average for the country. However, that kind of pay cut was rough on a lot of people.

As far as the Union, do what is right for you...not every union is corrupt, the workers are workers just like you....if you worked with these people before they were unionized and felt they were decent people then they will be the same good and decent people even if they joined a Union....and you would be the same person as well....

That is the question. What is right for me? I know that patient care will suffer, I know that this not-for-profit hospital cannot survive this for very long. OTOH, bucking the system, in this case the union, could be the wrong thing for my family in many ways.

 

[JoeB131]

PredFan, we'll all forgive you if you knuckle under and join the union. Really.

 

[PredFan]

PredFan, we'll all forgive you if you knuckle under and join the union. Really.

Not asking for forgiveness. Not asking for anything, just sharing the story.

 

[eagle1462010]

Medicare, Medicaid proposed cuts could make it impossible for hospitals to be profitable, force docs to stop seeing patients - News - The Times-Tribune

No need to cut and paste. Read if you so desire.

30% cut to Doctors. Mandatory 2% cuts to Medicare. Cost to Penn. 1.3 BILLION in Medicare cuts.

Just push the data over 50 States and you'll see at least 70 Billion in cuts a year, but during the discussion of the cuts they said the over 700 Billion in cuts to Medicare over 10 years were nothing more than GOP PROPOGANDA.

The Dems do increase spending on the Donut Hole. So Grandma can get the PAIN PILL instead of the hip replacement. The CMS will decide who's worthy of treatment, and quite frankly since they've are no longer a useful productive member of society they are no longer worthy of costly surgical procedures to allow them a better life in their old age.............

Do you people remember those arguments..................

I'm sure you do, but as they slowly occur you simply ignore the data because now we have the Gov't in control of our Health Care. More Gov't Good..................

Just a reminder. Please hurry with your medical Records to the Federal Data Base and beat the rush. The Gov't demands your PRIVATE INFO be on the WEB. Those who wanted this BS Law should be at the HEAD OF THE LINE.

It specifically says in the article you linked to that the 2% mandatory cut to Medicare is DUE TO THE SEQUESTER, and NOT coming to an agreement on Raising the debt ceiling....your article is from 2011 (in case you did not notice)

Me thinks you are MIXING UP Obamacare debate, VERSES THE SEQUESTER debate, the debt ceiling debate....

Riddle me this.....................................

The ACA requires mandatory cuts in Medicare.......................2.2% by 2014............

The Sequester triggered a MANDATORY cut of 2% at the same time.................

But the law already required a 2.2% cut.

The only difference is by calling it a SEQUESTER you get to deny the real reason for the cuts.

Me thinks you like Snake oil.................................................

 

[JoeB131]

PredFan, we'll all forgive you if you knuckle under and join the union. Really.

Not asking for forgiveness. Not asking for anything, just sharing the story.

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

 

[PredFan]

PredFan, we'll all forgive you if you knuckle under and join the union. Really.

Not asking for forgiveness. Not asking for anything, just sharing the story.

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

That is the bull shit story we always hear isn't it?

The problem with us conservatives is that we can look to the future and care about it. We care about the company we work for, and we care about our customers (in this case our patients).

The leftys like you think money falls from the sky and and the corporations and rich people are simply hogging it. I'm surprised you could spell Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[eagle1462010]

Not asking for forgiveness. Not asking for anything, just sharing the story.

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

That is the bull shit story we always hear isn't it?

The problem with us conservatives is that we can look to the future and care about it. We care about the company we work for, and we care about our customers (in this case our patients).

The leftys like you think money falls from the sky and and the corporations and rich people are simply hogging it. I'm surprised you could spell Stockholm Syndrome.

The cuts are coming irregardless. Just having a Union will not stop the cuts. The Federal Gov't has put these cuts into Law. If they don't make the cuts they would be violating the law.

Of course the Law hasn't stopped their decisions in the past.

The Sequester was supposed to be SO BAD THAT A DEAL WOULD BE MADE TO STOP IT. Yet it is the law now. Which was the intention in the first place from both sides.

In this way, they can each blame each other for the consequences of the cuts and not take responsibility.

One note on this aspect. Sequester was Obama's brainchild. He promised compromise and NO NEW TAXES.

HE LIED.

 

[JoeB131]

Not asking for forgiveness. Not asking for anything, just sharing the story.

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

That is the bull shit story we always hear isn't it?

The problem with us conservatives is that we can look to the future and care about it. We care about the company we work for, and we care about our customers (in this case our patients).

The leftys like you think money falls from the sky and and the corporations and rich people are simply hogging it. I'm surprised you could spell Stockholm Syndrome.

The wealthy are parasites.

There's plenty of money to take cafe of the sick.

There isn't enough to care for the sick, and pay for dressage ponies and big boats.

We spend more than any nation in the world, and we get the worst results amongst industrialized countries.

Tells me we aren't doing it right.

 

[Care4all]

Medicare, Medicaid proposed cuts could make it impossible for hospitals to be profitable, force docs to stop seeing patients - News - The Times-Tribune

No need to cut and paste. Read if you so desire.

30% cut to Doctors. Mandatory 2% cuts to Medicare. Cost to Penn. 1.3 BILLION in Medicare cuts.

Just push the data over 50 States and you'll see at least 70 Billion in cuts a year, but during the discussion of the cuts they said the over 700 Billion in cuts to Medicare over 10 years were nothing more than GOP PROPOGANDA.

The Dems do increase spending on the Donut Hole. So Grandma can get the PAIN PILL instead of the hip replacement. The CMS will decide who's worthy of treatment, and quite frankly since they've are no longer a useful productive member of society they are no longer worthy of costly surgical procedures to allow them a better life in their old age.............

Do you people remember those arguments..................

I'm sure you do, but as they slowly occur you simply ignore the data because now we have the Gov't in control of our Health Care. More Gov't Good..................

Just a reminder. Please hurry with your medical Records to the Federal Data Base and beat the rush. The Gov't demands your PRIVATE INFO be on the WEB. Those who wanted this BS Law should be at the HEAD OF THE LINE.

It specifically says in the article you linked to that the 2% mandatory cut to Medicare is DUE TO THE SEQUESTER, and NOT coming to an agreement on Raising the debt ceiling....your article is from 2011 (in case you did not notice)

Me thinks you are MIXING UP Obamacare debate, VERSES THE SEQUESTER debate, the debt ceiling debate....

Riddle me this.....................................

The ACA requires mandatory cuts in Medicare.......................2.2% by 2014............

The Sequester triggered a MANDATORY cut of 2% at the same time.................

But the law already required a 2.2% cut.

The only difference is by calling it a SEQUESTER you get to deny the real reason for the cuts.

Me thinks you like Snake oil.................................................

Apples and oranges, the ACA medicare cuts were focused, on specific areas, such as not paying more for health care Advantage insurance than they pay for Medicare recipients....cutting costs to medicare for hospitals that do not treat the patient correctly the first time around when admitted through the emergency room, and other things....

the Sequester is just a 2% cut across the board, in a haphazard, willy nilly manner....with no thought or reason.

And how do we know this 2% of cuts due to the sequester is not 2% over and above the ACA cuts, so an additional 2%??

 

[PredFan]

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

That is the bull shit story we always hear isn't it?

The problem with us conservatives is that we can look to the future and care about it. We care about the company we work for, and we care about our customers (in this case our patients).

The leftys like you think money falls from the sky and and the corporations and rich people are simply hogging it. I'm surprised you could spell Stockholm Syndrome.

The cuts are coming irregardless. Just having a Union will not stop the cuts. The Federal Gov't has put these cuts into Law. If they don't make the cuts they would be violating the law.

Of course the Law hasn't stopped their decisions in the past.

The Sequester was supposed to be SO BAD THAT A DEAL WOULD BE MADE TO STOP IT. Yet it is the law now. Which was the intention in the first place from both sides.

In this way, they can each blame each other for the consequences of the cuts and not take responsibility.

One note on this aspect. Sequester was Obama's brainchild. He promised compromise and NO NEW TAXES.

HE LIED.

Exactly. The hospital is on pace around 11 million dollars a year so far. there will be cuts made. If it isn't in the differential pay, it will be elsewhere. If a union were to prevent layoffs and paycuts, the only other options at this point is patient services.

 

[PredFan]

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

That is the bull shit story we always hear isn't it?

The problem with us conservatives is that we can look to the future and care about it. We care about the company we work for, and we care about our customers (in this case our patients).

The leftys like you think money falls from the sky and and the corporations and rich people are simply hogging it. I'm surprised you could spell Stockholm Syndrome.

The wealthy are parasites.

There's plenty of money to take cafe of the sick.

There isn't enough to care for the sick, and pay for dressage ponies and big boats.

We spend more than any nation in the world, and we get the worst results amongst industrialized countries.

Tells me we aren't doing it right.

1st, this is irrelevant to this thread, and second, it's left wing baloney. The sheer amout of things you don't know is fascinating, but predictable.

 

[eagle1462010]

Well, I'm sure it will be just horrible for you when that union actually stands up for you and makes sure they don't slash your pay.

Seriously. Conservatism should rename itself "Stockholm Syndrome".

That is the bull shit story we always hear isn't it?

The problem with us conservatives is that we can look to the future and care about it. We care about the company we work for, and we care about our customers (in this case our patients).

The leftys like you think money falls from the sky and and the corporations and rich people are simply hogging it. I'm surprised you could spell Stockholm Syndrome.

The wealthy are parasites.

There's plenty of money to take cafe of the sick.

There isn't enough to care for the sick, and pay for dressage ponies and big boats.

We spend more than any nation in the world, and we get the worst results amongst industrialized countries.

Tells me we aren't doing it right.

So let's subsidize the Insurance Industry instead of Subsidizing DIRECTLY TO THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY..........................

How Cute?

I'm going to run down to my Insurance Agent and get my Surgery done at their office. I'll be right back.

You quote the evil's of Big Business and then PANDER A LAW TO THE SAME.

One day you might actually pick a side in the equation.

Alternatives were offered during the creation of the ACA. One was specific in this area. It called for DIRECT SUBSIDIES TO HIGH COST TREATMENTS such as Cancer. Thus taking the higher dollar equations out of the insurance pool. These subsidies being PAID DIRECTLY TO CARE GIVERS and NOT THE MIDDLE MEN aka Insurance Companies.

But allas, the Dems didn't want any part of it. They preferred the money going to the Insurance Companies themselves. You see, the Care Givers wouldn't be responsible enough to handle the Subsidies themselves.

aka The Insurance Companies are more TRUST WORTHY WITH THE DOLLARS....................

Yeah Right...............If a Frog had wings............................

 

[eagle1462010]

It specifically says in the article you linked to that the 2% mandatory cut to Medicare is DUE TO THE SEQUESTER, and NOT coming to an agreement on Raising the debt ceiling....your article is from 2011 (in case you did not notice)

Me thinks you are MIXING UP Obamacare debate, VERSES THE SEQUESTER debate, the debt ceiling debate....

Riddle me this.....................................

The ACA requires mandatory cuts in Medicare.......................2.2% by 2014............

The Sequester triggered a MANDATORY cut of 2% at the same time.................

But the law already required a 2.2% cut.

The only difference is by calling it a SEQUESTER you get to deny the real reason for the cuts.

Me thinks you like Snake oil.................................................

Apples and oranges, the ACA medicare cuts were focused, on specific areas, such as not paying more for health care Advantage insurance than they pay for Medicare recipients....cutting costs to medicare for hospitals that do not treat the patient correctly the first time around when admitted through the emergency room, and other things....

the Sequester is just a 2% cut across the board, in a haphazard, willy nilly manner....with no thought or reason.

And how do we know this 2% of cuts due to the sequester is not 2% over and above the ACA cuts, so an additional 2%??

What you are saying is on some articles......................

While others say the sequester didn't cause the cuts.....................

While others say the cuts are directly to the ACA.....................

2011 Budget Act is the pertinent Law aka Sequester..............

The ACA is the other side of the deal................

Yet agreements were made to delay the 25 Billion in DOCTORS cuts under Sequester. Postponed but up to now as the budget issue is here now.

Yet one of the articles I posted showed 30% cuts already.

Soooooooooooooooo who's right and who's wrong. Medical saying the cuts are there, and the Feds amended these cuts in the 25 BILLION issue.

You tell me........................

 

[007]

If I was you Fred, and your hospital unionized, I'd look for a job else where.

 

[PredFan]

If I was you Fred, and your hospital unionized, I'd look for a job else where.

Actually, after 30 years in the field, and obamacare, I think I'd look for something other than healthcare. But I only have 9 years and a few months until I can retire. So what if I bite the bullet, join the union (only if i have no choice), and bleed this thing for as much as I can until then? I'll be so selfish and uncaring that I might as well register as a Democrat.

 

[eagle1462010]

If I was you Fred, and your hospital unionized, I'd look for a job else where.

Actually, after 30 years in the field, and obamacare, I think I'd look for something other than healthcare. But I only have 9 years and a few months until I can retire. So what if I bite the bullet, join the union (only if i have no choice), and bleed this thing for as much as I can until then? I'll be so selfish and uncaring that I might as well register as a Democrat.

You live in a right to work state. You are not required to join by the law.

Unfortunately, I understand your issue. If everyone goes with the Union and you don't you'd be considered an outsider. Thus they might try and get you out by other means even though you haven't done anything wrong.

But I don't work there. You know the people there. Will they throw you under the bus if you refuse?

 

[PredFan]

If I was you Fred, and your hospital unionized, I'd look for a job else where.

Actually, after 30 years in the field, and obamacare, I think I'd look for something other than healthcare. But I only have 9 years and a few months until I can retire. So what if I bite the bullet, join the union (only if i have no choice), and bleed this thing for as much as I can until then? I'll be so selfish and uncaring that I might as well register as a Democrat.

You live in a right to work state. You are not required to join by the law.

Unfortunately, I understand your issue. If everyone goes with the Union and you don't you'd be considered an outsider. Thus they might try and get you out by other means even though you haven't done anything wrong.

But I don't work there. You know the people there. Will they throw you under the bus if you refuse?

You have it correct. That is my question.

Here is one possible scenario:

Many employees unionize some, including me do not. The hospital continues to lose money, the union goes into collective bargaining with the hospital. They decide that staffing cuts need to happen.

Are they going to cut the union members or the non-union members? I think we know the answer to that one.

 

[eagle1462010]

Actually, after 30 years in the field, and obamacare, I think I'd look for something other than healthcare. But I only have 9 years and a few months until I can retire. So what if I bite the bullet, join the union (only if i have no choice), and bleed this thing for as much as I can until then? I'll be so selfish and uncaring that I might as well register as a Democrat.

You live in a right to work state. You are not required to join by the law.

Unfortunately, I understand your issue. If everyone goes with the Union and you don't you'd be considered an outsider. Thus they might try and get you out by other means even though you haven't done anything wrong.

But I don't work there. You know the people there. Will they throw you under the bus if you refuse?

You have it correct. That is my question.

Here is one possible scenario:

Many employees unionize some, including me do not. The hospital continues to lose money, the union goes into collective bargaining with the hospital. They decide that staffing cuts need to happen.

Are they going to cut the union members or the non-union members? I think we know the answer to that one.

Catch 22. I understand and hope they simply don't create the Union. You have given your life of service to the hospital. A WORTHY CAUSE. Don't throw yourself under the bus.

You Deserve and have earned that retirement check. Don't ditch your future for you and your family over the issue.