POLL: What should the punishment be for protesting football players?

[theHawk]

First Amendment rights of free speech don't apply at a work place and on private property. Employees represent their company and if they say or do things that reflect badly on their employer, that company has the right to fire them.

Haven't seen any employers complaining yet.
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If they are fine with it, then that is telling all the fans that is how they feel. It certainly is their right to do so. The fans will return the favor by boycotting them if they feel insulted by the message being sent by team owners and the NFL.

A long, long, time ago the NFL went on strike and the season didn't start until way late. The fans were absolutely FURIOUS. (That was pre-internet) After a time, they got over it though. Same here, so long as the media doesn't keep stirring the pot.

If Trump would quit tweeting about the NFL, the furor would go down a lot quicker. He keeps stirring up his base with distractions like this, and his followers eat it up hook line and sinker.

Wonder how many people today know that N. Korea has taken what some of Trumps tweets were about them and are calling it a declaration of war?

North Korea says Trump’s tweet is a declaration of war

President Trump didn't start it. The SJW nutcases decided to hijack the NFL live TV venue in order to push out their message of "America is racist". The fans turned on Kap long before Trump came along. The NFL punted his ass to the curb because of the lost revenue he caused. But the rabid left keeps pushing their shit no one wants to hear. They have all these black athletes believing their dribble and have many of these millionaires convinced they are victims. The left is just using them to push their Agenda and cause resentment. If the NFL is going to do an about face and promote the message of "Fuck you, America", then America will respond accordingly.

 

[Montrovant]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

The options aren't legal punishments, they are employer punishments. The first amendment does not require an employer to allow employees to protest during work. There are also, supposedly, rules already in place in the NFL which require players to be on the field and standing for the national anthem, but they are not being enforced.

I don't get upset by the protests, but if the NFL decides to punish the players according to already written rules, there would be no first amendment issue.

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

According to some reports, the NFL's Game Operations Manual does discuss player conduct during the anthem. Does the NFL Require Players to Stand for the National Anthem?
Snopes has given this a mixed rating, as they have not confirmed the Game Operations Manual text. FACT CHECK: Are NFL Players Required to Stand on the Field During the National Anthem?

So there may be rules regarding what players are supposed to do during the anthem. Besides, the NFL has exercised its authority based on player conduct many times, often seemingly without concrete rules.

As to advertisers, of course if a lot of people boycott the NFL it will have an effect. Not only would they lose ticket and merchandise money, but advertisers might pull out if they saw a large decrease in viewership. Beer companies are not going to keep paying to advertise during NFL games if not enough people are watching NFL games. That would require a large boycott, of course, but it isn't as though companies don't care whether or not the programs they buy ad time during get a lot of viewers.

I've always found the mix of patriotism and sports an odd one.

 

[Pogo]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

Joe McCarthy rated this post "ironic".

He has in his hand a list of football players................


And yet ------------ there's this:

​

Having it both ways --- Priceless.

How is it ironic? No one is suggesting the teams don't have a right to protest or send out whatever message they want. All President Trump did was state the obvious fact that choosing to send out an anti-American message will have massive backlash.

Apparently you just figured out your own question. Even though you're still lost in the swamp of characterizing free speech as "anti-American" (feel free to prove that one). Yes, Rump riled the rabid (in a state that doesn't have an NFL team anyway) that there should be coercion against anyone stepping out of line. And if he had said the same words in a German accent with a straight-armed salute you'd STILL not see the irony.

 

[g5000]

I think if a football player kneels during the National Anthem, they should be strapped onto the end of an anti-aircraft gun. A round of ordnance should then be launched at the end of the song, splattering the player's body parts all over the playing field and the stands.

It will give a whole new meaning to, "YOU'RE FIRED!"

This is North Korea, after all, and treasonous knee behavior offends Dear Leader and should not be tolerated.

 

[Montrovant]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

The options aren't legal punishments, they are employer punishments. The first amendment does not require an employer to allow employees to protest during work. There are also, supposedly, rules already in place in the NFL which require players to be on the field and standing for the national anthem, but they are not being enforced.

I don't get upset by the protests, but if the NFL decides to punish the players according to already written rules, there would be no first amendment issue.

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

There is a "social media" meme going around claiming that the NFL rulebook says something like that. It doesn't. I busted that earlier in the day -- the NFL rulebook makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

 

[Freewill]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
.

As determined by the owners. We the public will punish the owners.

 

[Richard-H]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
.

I say that they should get a real job!

But that has nothing to do with the whole 'taking a knee' during the National Anthem. I couldn't care less about that.

 

[Pogo]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

The options aren't legal punishments, they are employer punishments. The first amendment does not require an employer to allow employees to protest during work. There are also, supposedly, rules already in place in the NFL which require players to be on the field and standing for the national anthem, but they are not being enforced.

I don't get upset by the protests, but if the NFL decides to punish the players according to already written rules, there would be no first amendment issue.

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

There is a "social media" meme going around claiming that the NFL rulebook says something like that. It doesn't. I busted that earlier in the day -- the NFL rulebook makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

There's no evidence that such "operations manual" exists either. We did that too.

I'll post the link.

 

[usmbguest5318]

My answer was "No punishment".

Ditto

 

[Montrovant]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

The options aren't legal punishments, they are employer punishments. The first amendment does not require an employer to allow employees to protest during work. There are also, supposedly, rules already in place in the NFL which require players to be on the field and standing for the national anthem, but they are not being enforced.

I don't get upset by the protests, but if the NFL decides to punish the players according to already written rules, there would be no first amendment issue.

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

There is a "social media" meme going around claiming that the NFL rulebook says something like that. It doesn't. I busted that earlier in the day -- the NFL rulebook makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

There's no evidence that such "operations manual" exists either. We did that too.

I'll post the link.

Yes, there is. League Governance | NFL Football Operations

The NFL Football Operations “bible” is the Game Operations Manual — nearly 200 pages of procedures and policy for regular season games alone.

 

[Montrovant]

Oh, and as always, I chose Mango in the poll.

 

[rightwinger]

What was Trumps punishment for attacking POWs and Gold Star Parents?

 

[Pogo]

The options aren't legal punishments, they are employer punishments. The first amendment does not require an employer to allow employees to protest during work. There are also, supposedly, rules already in place in the NFL which require players to be on the field and standing for the national anthem, but they are not being enforced.

I don't get upset by the protests, but if the NFL decides to punish the players according to already written rules, there would be no first amendment issue.

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

There is a "social media" meme going around claiming that the NFL rulebook says something like that. It doesn't. I busted that earlier in the day -- the NFL rulebook makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

There's no evidence that such "operations manual" exists either. We did that too.

I'll post the link.

Yes, there is. League Governance | NFL Football Operations

The NFL Football Operations “bible” is the Game Operations Manual — nearly 200 pages of procedures and policy for regular season games alone.

Good work. First one to find it.

But it doesn't seem to say anything about standing for a national anthem. Doesn't mention "anthem" at all except in the setting "the national anthem has been played and....".. Doesn't mention "standing" either. And it's not the rule book. Matter of fact it looks like an external PR document, not an internal one.

Here's the post where I took Mudwhistle's last ball. The actual rulebook is linked there too.

Your Chicago Tribune link repeats that same 'social mediia' meme that I brought up originally and that Mudwhistle tried to claim, in his version being in the rule book:

>> The NFL's game operations manual says that "all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem."

It also says: "Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses." <<​

However that passage does not appear to be in either one. I'm afraid what you have there is a piece of bad journalism.

So to reiterate my original point to the OP ----- you can't "punish" something that isn't proscribed in the first place, ergo the poll question is not valid.

Except for the mangoes. As long as they're made into a Lassi.

 

[BluesLegend]

I guarantee you their contracts include a provision for sanctions/firing if their actions reflect poorly on the NFL. The 1st amendment doesn't give you the right to be an asshole at your place of work.

 

[Mac1958]

I can't imagine either a team or the league would fire a guy over this. First, the player's union would take them to court. But probably more importantly, one hell of a lot of players wouldn't want to play for them or be drafted by them. The team would be toxic for the most part.

 

[theHawk]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

Joe McCarthy rated this post "ironic".

He has in his hand a list of football players................


And yet ------------ there's this:

​

Having it both ways --- Priceless.

How is it ironic? No one is suggesting the teams don't have a right to protest or send out whatever message they want. All President Trump did was state the obvious fact that choosing to send out an anti-American message will have massive backlash.

Apparently you just figured out your own question. Even though you're still lost in the swamp of characterizing free speech as "anti-American" (feel free to prove that one). Yes, Rump riled the rabid (in a state that doesn't have an NFL team anyway) that there should be coercion against anyone stepping out of line. And if he had said the same words in a German accent with a straight-armed salute you'd STILL not see the irony.

Yes, we get to characterize their protest as anti-American if we want to. If your side gets to call everything racist just because they feel like it is, then we can certainly do the same.

It's laughable that suddenly anyone promoting a sentiment you don't like and calling for some type of action is "coercion". Yet the left has no problem trying to force everyone else into going along with their bullshit: like forcing people to bake cakes, forcing people to go along with fantasies of gender changing, or getting people fired from their job because they attended a protest on public property on their own time.

 

[Montrovant]

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

There is a "social media" meme going around claiming that the NFL rulebook says something like that. It doesn't. I busted that earlier in the day -- the NFL rulebook makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

There's no evidence that such "operations manual" exists either. We did that too.

I'll post the link.

Yes, there is. League Governance | NFL Football Operations

The NFL Football Operations “bible” is the Game Operations Manual — nearly 200 pages of procedures and policy for regular season games alone.

Good work. First one to find it.

But it doesn't seem to say anything about standing for a national anthem. Doesn't mention "anthem" at all except in the setting "the national anthem has been played and....".. Doesn't mention "standing" either. And it's not the rule book. Matter of fact it looks like an external PR document, not an internal one.

Here's the post where I took Mudwhistle's last ball. The actual rulebook is linked there too.

The actual game operation manual is not available. It is a different document than the rulebook.

The Game Operations Manual is one of the league’s three comprehensive policy manuals for member clubs — the other two are for administrative and business operations, and media and public relations — and, by necessity, it is often military-like in its precision and astonishing in its thoroughness.

The league’s Game Operations Department uses the manual to govern the conduct of home clubs, to ensure they protect players and provide the conditions for a fair and fan-friendly contest. Clubs face warnings and other penalties for noncompliance.

I'm not sure if the GOM would be the one to find any possible rules about the anthem, or if that would be more likely to be in the media and public relations manual. However, it's certainly possible that the quotes which have been reported are real.

 

[Montrovant]

Actually, there are no rules in the NFL that say anything about what the players are supposed to be doing during the national anthem. Matter of fact, they didn't start having the players on the field for the anthem until 2009, and it was marketing to make them look more "patriotic".

Anyone ever consider the fact that if the NFL hadn't done that marketing ploy, it wouldn't have given the players a platform to protest from?

And consider this....................a boycott by the fans won't have much effect. The real cash cow for the NFL is selling advertisements for stuff like beer and man products.

I don't really see beer sales going down just because some NFL players take a knee during the national anthem.

There is a "social media" meme going around claiming that the NFL rulebook says something like that. It doesn't. I busted that earlier in the day -- the NFL rulebook makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

There's no evidence that such "operations manual" exists either. We did that too.

I'll post the link.

Yes, there is. League Governance | NFL Football Operations

The NFL Football Operations “bible” is the Game Operations Manual — nearly 200 pages of procedures and policy for regular season games alone.

Good work. First one to find it.

But it doesn't seem to say anything about standing for a national anthem. Doesn't mention "anthem" at all except in the setting "the national anthem has been played and....".. Doesn't mention "standing" either. And it's not the rule book. Matter of fact it looks like an external PR document, not an internal one.

Here's the post where I took Mudwhistle's last ball. The actual rulebook is linked there too.

Your Chicago Tribune link repeats that same 'social mediia' meme that I brought up originally and that Mudwhistle tried to claim, in his version being in the rule book:

>> The NFL's game operations manual says that "all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem."

It also says: "Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses." <<​

However that passage does not appear to be in either one. I'm afraid what you have there is a piece of bad journalism.

I have yet to see a copy of the Game Operations Manual. It is not the same thing as the rulebook.

 

[Montrovant]

I can't imagine either a team or the league would fire a guy over this. First, the player's union would take them to court. But probably more importantly, one hell of a lot of players wouldn't want to play for them or be drafted by them. The team would be toxic for the most part.

It's very possible that the NFL might fine or suspend, though, given enough motivation. That's obviously not there at this point, but that could change.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
.

Specific? For each kneel you dig a grave for a fallen vet with a hand trough.