Pennsylvania drug testing welfare recipients

[grunt11b]

Pennsylvania Officials Roll Out Drug Tests For Welfare Recipients | Fox News



It's a pilot program, but at least they have the balls to do it. If people have the money for illegal drugs, they have the money for food and medicine.

 

[Luissa]

Ask Florida how much money they wasted on less than 2% testing positive. They actually test positive at a lesser rate than the general population.

Cons are really for small government.

 

[ladyliberal]

As the article notes, the tests are expensive and raise difficult constitutional issues. They are also stigmatizing and frequently register false positives.

Ignoring all of these issues, it's still not clear what the tests are designed to accomplish. Although it's not stated explicitly in the article, I assume that someone who tests positive will be denied government assistance to which they would otherwise be entitled. As troubling as it is to imagine the government paying people who then abuse drugs, it's not clear that denying them the benefits, particularly benefits which would be used to support family members who are not on drugs, will improve anything. Is someone addicted to cocaine likely to quit if their habit effectively becomes more expensive? If drug tests are applied, I prefer that a positive result would prompt drug counseling or treatment rather than a denial of benefits. Of course, this would be more expensive.

 

[Mad Scientist]

4th Amendment? What's that?

 

[snjmom]

Don't they already know that the drug users wind up in jail while the women and grandmothers that are left behind in their wreckage are the ones getting welfare to take care of kids that would otherwise wind up in an overburdened foster system or the street?

 

[alan1]

I see claims that they are expensive tests.

Yeah, a whopping $6.00 for a 12 panel test when purchased in bulk. 12-Panel Drug Test - $7.99 each I'd hardly call that expensive.

 

[dblack]

This is the one-two punch of the welfare state. Get 'em dependent and then dictate how they live their lives.

Go team!

 

[dblack]

Ignoring all of these issues, it's still not clear what the tests are designed to accomplish.

The same thing all welfare state programs are designed to accomplish - conformity and control.

 

[ladyliberal]

I see claims that they are expensive tests.

Yeah, a whopping $6.00 for a 12 panel test when purchased in bulk. 12-Panel Drug Test - $7.99 each I'd hardly call that expensive.

The Fox News story linked to in the original post noted the claim made by one group that has studied the issue that

"Since few substance abusers are identified in tests, but many are tested, the cost of catching a drug abuser may run between $20,000 and $77,000 per person," the group claimed.

Read more: Pennsylvania Officials Roll Out Drug Tests For Welfare Recipients | Fox News

For all I know it could be substantially less. However, the suggestion that the cost per drug user detected could be near 50 cents is absurd. One source claims that Florida's drug testing policy (which differs in important ways from Pennsylvania's pilot program) costs the taxpayers about as much as it "saves", even ignoring the costs of defending the program in the courts and certain administrative costs (Welfare drug-testing yields 2% positive results | TBO.com).

 

[Greenbeard]

Ignoring all of these issues, it's still not clear what the tests are designed to accomplish.

The same thing all welfare state programs are designed to accomplish - conformity and control.

These (Florida and Pennsylvania's tests) are fairly obvious attempts to discourage use of public assistance by humiliating and harassing those who would apply for it.

 

[Big Fitz]

4th Amendment? What's that?

You don't have to collect welfare, therefore you don't have to submit to the drug test. That's why it's not a violation of the 4th amendment.

 

[alan1]

I see claims that they are expensive tests.

Yeah, a whopping $6.00 for a 12 panel test when purchased in bulk. 12-Panel Drug Test - $7.99 each I'd hardly call that expensive.

The Fox News story linked to in the original post noted the claim made by one group that has studied the issue that

"Since few substance abusers are identified in tests, but many are tested, the cost of catching a drug abuser may run between $20,000 and $77,000 per person," the group claimed.

Read more: Pennsylvania Officials Roll Out Drug Tests For Welfare Recipients | Fox News

For all I know it could be substantially less. However, the suggestion that the cost per drug user detected could be near 50 cents is absurd. One source claims that Florida's drug testing policy (which differs in important ways from Pennsylvania's pilot program) costs the taxpayers about as much as it "saves", even ignoring the costs of defending the program in the courts and certain administrative costs (Welfare drug-testing yields 2% positive results | TBO.com).

I linked the actual cost of a drug test.
I see a whole lot of "may" and "claim" in your links.

 

[Article 15]

I see claims that they are expensive tests.

Yeah, a whopping $6.00 for a 12 panel test when purchased in bulk. 12-Panel Drug Test - $7.99 each I'd hardly call that expensive.

The Fox News story linked to in the original post noted the claim made by one group that has studied the issue that

"Since few substance abusers are identified in tests, but many are tested, the cost of catching a drug abuser may run between $20,000 and $77,000 per person," the group claimed.

Read more: Pennsylvania Officials Roll Out Drug Tests For Welfare Recipients | Fox News

For all I know it could be substantially less. However, the suggestion that the cost per drug user detected could be near 50 cents is absurd. One source claims that Florida's drug testing policy (which differs in important ways from Pennsylvania's pilot program) costs the taxpayers about as much as it "saves", even ignoring the costs of defending the program in the courts and certain administrative costs (Welfare drug-testing yields 2% positive results | TBO.com).

I linked the actual cost of a drug test.
I see a whole lot of "may" and "claim" in your links.

Is that the test they are using or is that just one you found?

Does your price include the costs to administer the tests?

 

[Article 15]

Ignoring all of these issues, it's still not clear what the tests are designed to accomplish.

The same thing all welfare state programs are designed to accomplish - conformity and control.

These (Florida and Pennsylvania's tests) are fairly obvious attempts to discourage use of public assistance by humiliating and harassing those who would apply for it.

In their defense, these are the same type of people who assume welfare recipient = drug user.

 

[auditor0007]

I see claims that they are expensive tests.

Yeah, a whopping $6.00 for a 12 panel test when purchased in bulk. 12-Panel Drug Test - $7.99 each I'd hardly call that expensive.

Yea, they use those drug store tests since they are the most accurate.

 

[auditor0007]

The Fox News story linked to in the original post noted the claim made by one group that has studied the issue that



For all I know it could be substantially less. However, the suggestion that the cost per drug user detected could be near 50 cents is absurd. One source claims that Florida's drug testing policy (which differs in important ways from Pennsylvania's pilot program) costs the taxpayers about as much as it "saves", even ignoring the costs of defending the program in the courts and certain administrative costs (Welfare drug-testing yields 2% positive results | TBO.com).

I linked the actual cost of a drug test.
I see a whole lot of "may" and "claim" in your links.

Is that the test they are using or is that just one you found?

Does your price include the costs to administer the tests?

He found the cost of the self test you can buy at the local drug store when bought in bulk. While those tests are fairly accurate, they could not be used for this purpose. A judge would never accept the results.

 

[bripat9643]

These (Florida and Pennsylvania's tests) are fairly obvious attempts to discourage use of public assistance by humiliating and harassing those who would apply for it.

If I have to take a drug test to get a job programming computers, then I fail to see the reason welfare recipients can't be asked to take a drug test.

 

[Luissa]

I see claims that they are expensive tests.

Yeah, a whopping $6.00 for a 12 panel test when purchased in bulk. 12-Panel Drug Test - $7.99 each I'd hardly call that expensive.

Yeah, that would be great if that is all it cost them.

 

[Greenbeard]

These (Florida and Pennsylvania's tests) are fairly obvious attempts to discourage use of public assistance by humiliating and harassing those who would apply for it.

If I have to take a drug test to get a job programming computers, then I fail to see the reason welfare recipients can't be asked to take a drug test.

I didn't say they can't be. I was pushing back against the notion that this is some nefarious plot to control the population when it's obviously just a thinly-veiled attempt to cull the rolls, PRWORA-style.

 

[Luissa]

4th Amendment? What's that?

You don't have to collect welfare, therefore you don't have to submit to the drug test. That's why it's not a violation of the 4th amendment.

It is if they share it with law enforcement.
"Scriven wrote, adding that she found it "troubling" that the drug tests are not kept confidential like medical records. The results can also be shared with law enforcement officers and a drug abuse hotline."http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/rick-scott-drug-testing-welfare-florida_n_1029332.html

When you get drug tested for a job and you test positive they are not sharing this information with law enforcement.