Pearl Harbor-C19-bullsh&t

[Camp]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not save the fleet at PH.

 

[harmonica]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

 

[Camp]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

..we didn't even have a reliable/etc intelligence service

Office of Strategic Services - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Agreed. Each military branch and other agencies had their own services and they actually competed with each other. The Navy probably had the best but with no coordination with the State Department both missed a lot.

 

[harmonica]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

..we didn't even have a reliable/etc intelligence service

Office of Strategic Services - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Agreed. Each military branch and other agencies had their own services and they actually competed with each other. The Navy probably had the best but with no coordination with the State Department both missed a lot.

..yes the Navy was ''good to go'''.....navies ruled the seas--roads of the world ....Britain's Navy was ''the'' reason Britain ruled so much at one time ....now, I guess it's the Air Force that gets the best......they had the best when I was in.....I was a Marine on a Navy base in Hawaii.....my married buddy had housing right next to AF housing/etc which seemed better ... ...his wife was Navy....but we were stationed farther north.....for some reason they had housing near Wheeler AFB...this was 30 years ago--I forgot a lot

 

[miketx]

COVIDIOT Tramp knew in November 2019 and did nothing.

US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — TV report

White House was reportedly not interested in the intel, but it was passed onto NATO, IDF; when it reached Israel's Health Ministry, 'nothing was done'

www.timesofisrael.com

US intelligence agencies alerted Israel to the coronavirus outbreak in China already in November, Israeli television reported Thursday.

According to Channel 12 news, the US intelligence community became aware of the emerging disease in Wuhan in the second week of that month and drew up a classified document.

Information on the disease outbreak was not in the public domain at that stage — and was known only apparently to the Chinese government.

US intelligence informed the Trump administration, “which did not deem it of interest,” but the report said the Americans also decided to update two allies with the classified document: NATO and Israel, specifically the IDF.

Anything from any media source is tainted with bullshit.

 

[Camp]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

 

[Desperado]

FDR wanted America involved in WW2 but Americans were opposed
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II.

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff

www.thenewamerican.com

 

[miketx]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

Trumps fault.

 

[Camp]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

Trumps fault.

Trump can't be blamed for Pearl Harbor.

 

[miketx]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

Trumps fault.

Trump can't be blamed for Pearl Harbor.

Nonsense, Trump is responsible for everything. My back is hurting and that bastard in responsible! My bag of M&M's was stale...Trump!

 

[harmonica]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

....the radar angle would not have made much difference---the carriers would still be ok.......the BBs did not affect the war that much......in the biggest battles [ [ until MUCH later 1944 Philippines Battle of Leyte Gulf biggest naval battle ]] of the Solomon Islands, the US still won ''very handily''--......
...the ''bigger''/time consuming problem for defeating Japan was logistics/manpower--not BBs--not the Japanese .. ......it took a loooong time to gather/train/equip/move/etc manpower and supplies .......
....most of the battles after Guadalcanal and before Iwo were over ''quickly''.....Guadalcanal was mainly a defensive battle [ offensive strategically ] ......in 1942, the US was just starting to gear up manpower and supplies

 

[harmonica]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

Trumps fault.

Trump can't be blamed for Pearl Harbor.

Nonsense, Trump is responsible for everything. My back is hurting and that bastard in responsible! My bag of M&M's was stale...Trump!

and he's responsible for RACISM---that's a big one

 

[Camp]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

Trumps fault.

Trump can't be blamed for Pearl Harbor.

Nonsense, Trump is responsible for everything. My back is hurting and that bastard in responsible! My bag of M&M's was stale...Trump!

Use your stale M&Ms in cookies or brownies. Pancakes also.

 

[harmonica]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

...also:
1. Sunday morning--not a lot of pilots/etc on duty
2. would have taken time to get pilots up in the air
3. takes time for orders to be given and received
etc
all = good defense would not be that good
....I've read many times how many personnel would not and could not believe the Japanese were attacking...they thought it was US planes/etc = time wasted

 

[Camp]

FDR wanted America involved in WW2 but Americans were opposed
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II.

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff

www.thenewamerican.com

America's 80-year-old debunked conspiracy theory that keeps on ticking.

 

[blackhawk]

Preal Harbor or COVID-19 hindsight is always 20/20 there are none more brilliant than those who know exactly what should have been done after the fact.

 

[Desperado]

FDR wanted America involved in WW2 but Americans were opposed
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II.

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff

www.thenewamerican.com

America's 80-year-old debunked conspiracy theory that keeps on ticking.

Debunked by who? Can't be debunked if it still around 80 years later

 

[Camp]

NO POTUS would've known what to do or would've done it in time

Maybe not any given POTUS, but IT IS the job of multiple org's to give him a heads up

and oh, a Pandemic of this caliber has been expected by said entities

so, either they didn't do their job(s) , or the potus refused to listen to them

~S~

..same bullshit was said about PH....Billy Mitchell predicted PH
......you just said it!!!!! = EXPECTED, not known ...jesus f christ!!!!hahahahhaha..we EXPECT a BIG earthquake/CAR ACCIDENTS/etc ....

I'm not about to play blame game here Harmonica

I could care less who is at fault

It's about their response to it now

THAT has consequences

Trump ,only because he's potus now, will inherit the 'Covid Economy' , of '20 ....just as Obama inherited the 'Crash economy' of '08

Trump's had it easy up to now, what he does from here on in will either make him or break him, as well as ring on down history for him

~S~

Part of the Trump strategy is deflecting and changing the narrative. In this case and situation, the purpose is to deflect away from the response and focus on a false narrative of making him a victim being blamed for him not "predicting" the pandemic.

hahahahhaahhah--exactly what I stated in the OP--they said the same FALSE crap about FDR

True, and FDR did a hell of a lot to prepare for WWII. Also, he prepared in many ways for PH. We were in PH because he moved the fleet there from the west coast in preparation for a war with Japan. He installed a new invention called radar and it worked, only to be ignored by an officer who misinterpreted the sighting of Japanese aircraft. Carriers were absent from PH and safely at sea. They would neutralize the Japanese Navy soon after PH at Midway.

......I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years--you prove to know NOTHING about WW2/PH
....FYI the fleet/PH/PH airfields and planes were destroyed----not saved......how did you think otherwise???!!!!!!!

Aircraft carriers were saved. I said that in my post. Never mentioned airfields. Anyhow, like you, I have been reading about WWII for over 40 years. In addition, I worked very closely with a Guadalcanal Marine veteran and had many long discussions with him about WWII. Also, I had an uncle who served on the USS Enterprise who was pretty knowledgeable about the war in the Pacific since he was an actual participant. My knowledge for the European theater comes from a couple of uncles who were paratroopers. I also heard a lot of stories about my uncle who became missing in action as a B-17 pilot.

..so FDR saved the carriers, but not the fleet/AIRPOWER/ or thousands of lives??!!

Correct. Whether he is fairly blamed or not is a matter of debatable subjective opinion, but he definitely did not

you said it--''opinion'' which does not equal truth/proof/etc

It means there is no wrong or right. People can debate forever and never reach a conclusion one way or another. I can argue if the radar had been interpreted correctly and acted on, PH would have turned out completely different. US planes would have been in the air and confronting Japanese attackers. Battleships would have been alerted and anti-aircraft weapons manned. No surprise, no victory for Japan. So, after all the debate, one could argue it all came down to one officer misinterpreting the new technology of a thing called radar as being a flight of B-17's coming in from the east instead of an attacking Japanese force coming in from the west.

...also:
1. Sunday morning--not a lot of pilots/etc on duty
2. would have taken time to get pilots up in the air
3. takes time for orders to be given and received
etc
all = good defense would not be that good
....I've read many times how many personnel would not and could not believe the Japanese were attacking...they thought it was US planes/etc = time wasted

You may be right. That is why the subject is debatable. How can one judge the various factors? Japenese attackers caught US defenders by complete surprise. Ships and airfields did not know they were being addicted until they were under attack, so the first waves of attackers went unchallenged. You're a Marine veteran. You know how important it is for you to warn about gooks in the wire. It determines how many, if any, sappers get through.

 

[Camp]

FDR wanted America involved in WW2 but Americans were opposed
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II.

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff

www.thenewamerican.com

America's 80-year-old debunked conspiracy theory that keeps on ticking.

Debunked by who? Can't be debunked if it still around 80 years later

Debunked repeatedly by actual scholars and historians. Look at the sources for these conspiracy theories abour PH.

 

[Desperado]

FDR wanted America involved in WW2 but Americans were opposed
Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II.

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not

Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack on Pearl Harbor, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. By James Perloff

www.thenewamerican.com

America's 80-year-old debunked conspiracy theory that keeps on ticking.

Debunked by who? Can't be debunked if it still around 80 years later

Debunked repeatedly by actual scholars and historians. Look at the sources for these conspiracy theories abour PH.

There are just as many actual scholars and historians that agree that FDR allowed the Japanese to attack PH. Even the circumstantial evidence is enough to bring the case to a Grand Jury.