Patriot Act

[NATO AIR]

may we please get started on the "real" patriot act discussion?

i really, truly want to learn more about this, and you guys (you know who you are, i am not referring to the trolls and bombthrowers, they know who they are too) are the best folks i know while i'm overseas military to learn about this.

 

[Zhukov]

It lets the FBI and CIA share information and lets prosecutors add some additional charges for things that are already illegal, so they can put people away for a longer period of time. It extends the surveillance power of the intelligence agencies to a level similar to that already used against organized crime.

The biggest problem civil libertarians have with it is it allows an 'unprecedented' amount of personal intrusion. This is true, but of course they don't tell you the whole story.

The FBI can read your email, tap your phone, bring up your spending record without a warrant.

-but-

They have to have a good reason for it, high degree of suspicion, there has to be a time constrait associated with it (not enough time to get a warrant properly), and if it turns out they were wrong any other unrelated bit of illegality they find is completely inadmissible in a court of law.

In other words, they think you're a terrorist, they break into your house without a warrant because they think they don't have the time to get one, and they find a giant grow room full of pot. It turns out they got the wrong house. They can't arrest you for the pot. They'd have to go get a warrant and come back later if they wanted to prosecute you for it because all the evidence would be inadmissible.



But if you really want to know about it, read it. It's the most exciting legislation in the world.

 

[sagegirl]

may we please get started on the "real" patriot act discussion?

i really, truly want to learn more about this, and you guys (you know who you are, i am not referring to the trolls and bombthrowers, they know who they are too) are the best folks i know while i'm overseas military to learn about this.

I tend to agree that alot of previous code (law) already covers most of the pat act. I get concerned with some of the wording and definitions....a term like "appears to coerce....." in the definition of domestic terrorism could be extrapolated out and mis-used to squelch legitimate grievences.

 

[dilloduck]

I tend to agree that alot of previous code (law) already covers most of the pat act. I get concerned with some of the wording and definitions....a term like "appears to coerce....." in the definition of domestic terrorism could be extrapolated out and mis-used to squelch legitimate grievences.

I optimistically see the terms as just that for now. TERMS. When I hear of acts committed under these terms that I feel actually hurt someone I will decry the deed.

 

[Zhukov]

I tend to agree that alot of previous code (law) already covers most of the pat act. I get concerned with some of the wording and definitions....a term like "appears to coerce....." in the definition of domestic terrorism could be extrapolated out and mis-used to squelch legitimate grievences.

The "appears to coerce...." comes after you have already been arrested for a crime. If the crime you committed "appears to coerce..." they get to tack on another charge to the indictment, and a few more decades to the penalty.

The "appears to coerce..." portion is not sufficient to indict alone. That is spelled out clearly and unequivocally. It could not reasonably be argued otherwise in a court of law.

 

[White knight]

I think the patriot act was one of the good pieces of legislation along with “Check 21” born out of the September 11th attacks, which has herded the masses in the right or wrong directions.

The NSA has had the capability to read E-mails, monitor all means of voice and electronic communications via project Echelon, the ear in the sky. The way we have skirted around the law on this was to monitor the comms. overseas on British soil, with joint cooperation of the Brits.

The real benefits of the Patriot Act are achieved by the ability to bring this capability back home and capitalize on it by routing your right to privacy, along with info/data (information sharing) through a new dynamic automated system, called Total Information Awareness (TIA) now renamed Terrorist Information Awareness for paranoids who fear the New World Order. I like to call it the Oracle or Prophet, because it will have the ability to predict to a large degree the accuracy future events before they happen.

How you say, the goal is simple the means is complex.

The Oracle is an advanced project of revolutionary technology pioneered by (DARPA) Department of Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, headed by John Poindexter.
The aim is to track through a single thread, an event or person from birth to death, as much information as possible, such as financial records, medical records, communications, travel and all new sources of information as they are developed, using Open Grid Service Architecture (OGSA). This will allow access to fuse government, private, public and commercial databases. The data will be stored in ultra-large all-source information repositories or grand database.

The purpose of collecting, storing and refreshing of this data is to discover patterns and associations thru data mining and continue to develop data mining, discovery and search tools. It will use algorithms and human analysis. Unified Modeling Language (UML) will visually tie all levels of the system together generating insight from architectural patters and facilitating drill-down to understand underlying rationale to detect potential activity.
An individuals will be tracked by the Human ID at a Distance program (HID) possibly via information signature or electronic web DNA (eDNA) and by such other methods as biometric technology, face recognition or gait recognition, it will essentially be a nationwide identification system that would not require your knowledge of participation. It will track persons across multiple information sources or possibly control points.

The entire population of the U.S. and potentially the world, since it’s use has been approved for use outside the United States, would be subjected to TIA surveillance.
This raises some concerns for abuse most notably by scientists of the US Association for Computing Machinery (USACM).
They site that it is likely to be misused to the detriment of many innocent American citizens, by individuals who have a personal or political vendetta or have been compromised by blackmail or greed could do great harm.
The attack in the NAACP for political speech by the IRS could be an example of a political vendetta.

This Crown Jewel has a great potential for the social sciences; it could recognize areas of wasted or redundant human activity. It has even greater applications to world commerce, because it has a separate business model that it can run in. With the insight generated it can give corporations or individual insiders, a huge advantage over competition, allowing insiders to monopolize entire industries and drive out other competitors.
In other words it could make someone people extremely wealthy.

The bottom line is can you trust man with this much knowledge and power. This is the real issue of our time everything else is just a WMD (weapon of mass distraction). I'ts putting allot of faith in who inherits this power. I think this is the real prize for the winner of the election, 4 years of TIA.
:cof:

 

[White knight]

Normally, the neo-cons enjoy picking my post apart,