Patriot Act wire taps vs. TSA search guidlines

[Jeremy]

-poll coming.

Do you consider these searches to be "reasonable" under the 4th amendment? Do you oppose both. Or do you view them as different?

A lot of people that support the TSA searches say "If you don't like it, don't fly" , but can't the same be said for the wire tap guidlines under the Patriot Act? If you do not like it, don't use those forms of communication, ie. write a hand written letter instead of using email or telephone.

The way I see it. You either have to agree with both, or oppose both.

 

[kwc57]

-poll coming.

Do you consider these searches to be "reasonable" under the 4th amendment? Do you oppose both. Or do you view them as different?

A lot of people that support the TSA searches say "If you don't like it, don't fly" , but can't the same be said for the wire tap guidlines under the Patriot Act? If you do not like it, don't use those forms of communication, ie. write a hand written letter instead of using email or telephone.

The way I see it. You either have to agree with both, or oppose both.

The old Patriot Act mantra was, "if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about". Of course, those of us against the kneejerk Patriot Act knew things would eventually evolve to where we are today.

 

[Ravi]

Wiretapping should only be done if there is no other way to catch a criminal in the act.

Searching people boarding commercial flights is the only real way to catch people smuggling bombs on their person.

It's not rocket science.

End the war on terror...save a lot of aggravation and a boatload of money.

 

[Jeremy]

Wiretapping should only be done if there is no other way to catch a criminal in the act.

Searching people boarding commercial flights is the only real way to catch people smuggling bombs on their person.

It's not rocket science.

End the war on terror...save a lot of aggravation and a boatload of money.

Seriously?

How can we do that exactly? Have the prez make televised speech and say the "war" is over. Would that diminish the threat from the Islamic extremists?

By your logic all we have to do is say "the war is over" and there would no longer be a need for these security measures?

 

[kwc57]

Wiretapping should only be done if there is no other way to catch a criminal in the act.

Searching people boarding commercial flights is the only real way to catch people smuggling bombs on their person.

It's not rocket science.

End the war on terror...save a lot of aggravation and a boatload of money.

Tell me, since the TSA came into being.....can you give us one single solitary instance where their actions have ever caught or thwarted a terrorist attack? A dedicated suicide bomber can easily get a bomb past even todays invasive pat downs. Full body scanners and invasive pat downs can not detect a bomb hidden in a body cavity. So, what's next....an anal probing? Israel has kept their airline travel safe for years without pat downs. I wonder how they do that?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Both are unconstitutional and gross violations of personal liberty.

 

[uscitizen]

-poll coming.

Do you consider these searches to be "reasonable" under the 4th amendment? Do you oppose both. Or do you view them as different?

A lot of people that support the TSA searches say "If you don't like it, don't fly" , but can't the same be said for the wire tap guidlines under the Patriot Act? If you do not like it, don't use those forms of communication, ie. write a hand written letter instead of using email or telephone.

The way I see it. You either have to agree with both, or oppose both.

The old Patriot Act mantra was, "if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about". Of course, those of us against the kneejerk Patriot Act knew things would eventually evolve to where we are today.

I remember exactly the same thing from those who supported the partiot act.
Primarially the right.
And I recall a no big deal response from the right about the illegal taps and records releases made by Verixozon and ATT. Which got a legal pardon form bush thru leglislation. Those were even illegal under the patriot act.

 

[boedicca]

The TSA hasn't been granted Search Warrants by a judge.

 

[Valerie]

Airport security scans are considered under law to be administrative searches that do not require a warrant. Airplanes are jet fueled missiles which can be boarded and potentially hijacked by anybody despite their paper "record", meanwhile the objectionable x-ray scan itself does not reveal anything other than the PHYSICAL person; it does not stand to incriminate a person in the same the way the Patriot Act could.




The Patriot Act was special act of Congress signed into law by President Bush.

"The Act dramatically reduced restrictions on law enforcement agencies' ability to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and broadened the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA PATRIOT Act’s expanded law enforcement powers could be applied." USA PATRIOT Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ravi]

Wiretapping should only be done if there is no other way to catch a criminal in the act.

Searching people boarding commercial flights is the only real way to catch people smuggling bombs on their person.

It's not rocket science.

End the war on terror...save a lot of aggravation and a boatload of money.

Tell me, since the TSA came into being.....can you give us one single solitary instance where their actions have ever caught or thwarted a terrorist attack? A dedicated suicide bomber can easily get a bomb past even todays invasive pat downs. Full body scanners and invasive pat downs can not detect a bomb hidden in a body cavity. So, what's next....an anal probing? Israel has kept their airline travel safe for years without pat downs. I wonder how they do that?

I don't know...they do arrest people with weapons, but I don't know if it is possible for them to know the intent of the people boarding planes with weapons. Here is one example:

TSA: Four Discoveries and Three Arrests in 12 Hours at Tampa

As for the profiling, as I was looking for an answer to your question I found that they do profile, and of course that also raises some civil liberties questions (interesting article):

TSA's 'behavior detection' leads to few arrests - USATODAY.com

If you think Israel doesn't pat down people they suspect of terrorism you aren't very bright.

 

[kwc57]

Wiretapping should only be done if there is no other way to catch a criminal in the act.

Searching people boarding commercial flights is the only real way to catch people smuggling bombs on their person.

It's not rocket science.

End the war on terror...save a lot of aggravation and a boatload of money.

Tell me, since the TSA came into being.....can you give us one single solitary instance where their actions have ever caught or thwarted a terrorist attack? A dedicated suicide bomber can easily get a bomb past even todays invasive pat downs. Full body scanners and invasive pat downs can not detect a bomb hidden in a body cavity. So, what's next....an anal probing? Israel has kept their airline travel safe for years without pat downs. I wonder how they do that?

I don't know...they do arrest people with weapons, but I don't know if it is possible for them to know the intent of the people boarding planes with weapons. Here is one example:

TSA: Four Discoveries and Three Arrests in 12 Hours at Tampa

As for the profiling, as I was looking for an answer to your question I found that they do profile, and of course that also raises some civil liberties questions (interesting article):

TSA's 'behavior detection' leads to few arrests - USATODAY.com

If you think Israel doesn't pat down people they suspect of terrorism you aren't very bright.

SUSPECT is the key word in your sentence. Of course Israel would pat down someone they suspect of terrorism. They'd be morons if they didn't. Tell me how that equates to the US patting down children, disabled people, nuns and the elderly? What are they suspected of?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_security#Israel

 

[Jeremy]

Tell me, since the TSA came into being.....can you give us one single solitary instance where their actions have ever caught or thwarted a terrorist attack? A dedicated suicide bomber can easily get a bomb past even todays invasive pat downs. Full body scanners and invasive pat downs can not detect a bomb hidden in a body cavity. So, what's next....an anal probing? Israel has kept their airline travel safe for years without pat downs. I wonder how they do that?

I don't know...they do arrest people with weapons, but I don't know if it is possible for them to know the intent of the people boarding planes with weapons. Here is one example:

TSA: Four Discoveries and Three Arrests in 12 Hours at Tampa

As for the profiling, as I was looking for an answer to your question I found that they do profile, and of course that also raises some civil liberties questions (interesting article):

TSA's 'behavior detection' leads to few arrests - USATODAY.com

If you think Israel doesn't pat down people they suspect of terrorism you aren't very bright.

SUSPECT is the key word in your sentence. Of course Israel would pat down someone they suspect of terrorism. They'd be morons if they didn't. Tell me how that equates to the US patting down children, disabled people, nuns and the elderly? What are they suspected of?

Airport security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're suspected of naively believing in the 4th Amendment.

 

[kwc57]

I don't know...they do arrest people with weapons, but I don't know if it is possible for them to know the intent of the people boarding planes with weapons. Here is one example:

TSA: Four Discoveries and Three Arrests in 12 Hours at Tampa

As for the profiling, as I was looking for an answer to your question I found that they do profile, and of course that also raises some civil liberties questions (interesting article):

TSA's 'behavior detection' leads to few arrests - USATODAY.com

If you think Israel doesn't pat down people they suspect of terrorism you aren't very bright.

SUSPECT is the key word in your sentence. Of course Israel would pat down someone they suspect of terrorism. They'd be morons if they didn't. Tell me how that equates to the US patting down children, disabled people, nuns and the elderly? What are they suspected of?

Airport security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're suspected of naively believing in the 4th Amendment.

Don't worry, we're from the government and we're here to help. It's for your own good.

 

[Paulie]

Mandate pat downs by the girls when entering Hooters, and i'll compromise on the TSA pat downs.

 

[Jeremy]

Mandate pat downs by the girls when entering Hooters, and i'll compromise on the TSA pat downs.

I second that motion!

 

[Paulie]

Mandate pat downs by the girls when entering Hooters, and i'll compromise on the TSA pat downs.

I second that motion!

Only because there's alcohol being served there, and it would be dangerous if people smuggled in guns and bombs in such an environment.

I hope you're mind is in the right place on this one.

 

[Jeremy]

Mandate pat downs by the girls when entering Hooters, and i'll compromise on the TSA pat downs.

I second that motion!

Only because there's alcohol being served there, and it would be dangerous if people smuggled in guns and bombs in such an environment.

I hope you're mind is in the right place on this one.

Of course. Saftey first!

 

[George Costanza]

-poll coming.

Do you consider these searches to be "reasonable" under the 4th amendment? Do you oppose both. Or do you view them as different?

A lot of people that support the TSA searches say "If you don't like it, don't fly" , but can't the same be said for the wire tap guidlines under the Patriot Act? If you do not like it, don't use those forms of communication, ie. write a hand written letter instead of using email or telephone.

The way I see it. You either have to agree with both, or oppose both.

Totally opposed to both. The Patriot Act is largely unconstitutional, very much including the wire tap portions thereof. TSA searches are yet another, hysterical, overreaction to the threat of terrorism. Ever since 9/11, our country has turned itself inside out trying to prevent further attacks of any kind. Long lines everywhere you go. Purile "seraches" that a sixth grader could smuggle dynamite past if he so desired. And for what? The inconvenience to the public greatly outweighs any actual threat of anything.

We could stop shoplifting once and for all if we wanted to - just strip/body cavity search everyone leaving the store. On board for that? I'm sure not.

 

[The Infidel]

-poll coming.

Do you consider these searches to be "reasonable" under the 4th amendment? Do you oppose both. Or do you view them as different?

A lot of people that support the TSA searches say "If you don't like it, don't fly" , but can't the same be said for the wire tap guidlines under the Patriot Act? If you do not like it, don't use those forms of communication, ie. write a hand written letter instead of using email or telephone.

The way I see it. You either have to agree with both, or oppose both.

No I don’t think these are reasonable searches…. When is the last time an old fart or a lil kid blew a plane up?

The TSA searches are IMO a violation of my privacy, but I for now will just not fly.

The Patriot Act does’nt allow the gov’t to tap my lines w/o probable cause b/c I am not a known terrorist.
Now on the other hand if I were to send an email or call a known terrorist, then thay would then have cause.

The Patriot Act didn’t do anything more than to add a “group” of individuals (i.e. terrorists that are trying to kill us ALL) to the list of folks that the gov’t can monitor.


So when the TSA goes for my crotch I have to draw a line in the sand.

When we start having non-muslim old ladies or crazy lil kids trying to blow us out of the sky get back to me.

 

[Ravi]

Tell me, since the TSA came into being.....can you give us one single solitary instance where their actions have ever caught or thwarted a terrorist attack? A dedicated suicide bomber can easily get a bomb past even todays invasive pat downs. Full body scanners and invasive pat downs can not detect a bomb hidden in a body cavity. So, what's next....an anal probing? Israel has kept their airline travel safe for years without pat downs. I wonder how they do that?

I don't know...they do arrest people with weapons, but I don't know if it is possible for them to know the intent of the people boarding planes with weapons. Here is one example:

TSA: Four Discoveries and Three Arrests in 12 Hours at Tampa

As for the profiling, as I was looking for an answer to your question I found that they do profile, and of course that also raises some civil liberties questions (interesting article):

TSA's 'behavior detection' leads to few arrests - USATODAY.com

If you think Israel doesn't pat down people they suspect of terrorism you aren't very bright.

SUSPECT is the key word in your sentence. Of course Israel would pat down someone they suspect of terrorism. They'd be morons if they didn't. Tell me how that equates to the US patting down children, disabled people, nuns and the elderly? What are they suspected of?

Airport security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do you suggest, we give nuns (easy to get uniforms on ebay) and people with plastic bags full of liquid tied to their bellies a pass? bwahahaha!

Quit bitching at me...I have been against this nonsense from the beginning and am laughing at the discomfort of you morons that didn't care until last week.

btw, Obama's first pick for TSA head wanted to model our security system on Israel's but all the rightwingoon's outcry made him to decide to drop out.

You reap what you sow.