Partisan Senate report says Bin Laden was "within our grasp."

[Claudette]

Cliinton had a good shot at OBL also and didn't take it. If he had taken the shot 9-11 might not have happend. Hindsight sure is 20/20.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Where exactly do you want them to land?

At the flat lands meeting the mountain? You get pinned down from those at higher elevations.

On the side? Helicopters don't handle a slpoe well.

That leaves the top. Open area with no cover and RPG's carefully positioned to take care of that problem.

Tora Bora is mountainous you call it a desert.

The area is like an ocean. You have to cover a vast area probably at night to find your target. There are risks involved with a night flight in a mountainous area. You probably want zero tolerance for civilian casualities too right? Thermal sights aren't the best for IDing folks.

Again, I can't speak for the Senate paper, but Special Operations were already there and according to one operator were in position to take out Osama, but their mission was denied.

The bottom line is that we trusted the Pashtun.

Big, big mistake.

That's why that Senate paper is nothing more than a political attack on the right and Bush...You say you've been in country...how did you get there...please explain it to the others here...so they understand that you cannot simply send in 3 fucking divisions of troops into a mountain range 10,000 feet above sea level without any supply lines, infrastructure or accomodations.

 

[nodoginnafight]

And Bush had an opportunity to have the Taliban hand OBL over - but Bush refused. I'll agree that (imho) some of the terms were inappropriate - but he should have pursued negotiating better terms.

 

[SFC Ollie]

they don't watch to capture bin laden. it lets them keep expanding wars and using propaganda. i wouldn't be surprised if he is still on the cia payroll.

Here's one for you dumbass.....

Obama specifically said he want's to capture Bin Laden. Now prove that statement wrong and prove Bin Laden is still on the CIA payroll or SHUT THE F*CK UP!!!

but has he done anything about capturing osama? and proving the cia payroll idea is a joke right? maybe in 20 years when I can freedom of info act some stuff....

I would accept any proof that UBL was ever on the CIA payroll. Knowing that he never was. You haters never give up.

 

[SFC Ollie]

AFP: Rumsfeld decision let Bin Laden escape: Senate report

Rumsfeld decision let Bin Laden escape: Senate report
(AFP) – 1 hour ago
WASHINGTON — Osama bin Laden was "within the grasp" of US forces in late 2001 but escaped because then-defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld rejected calls for reinforcements, a hard-hitting US Senate report says.
The report, set for release Monday, is intended to help learn the lessons of the past as President Barack Obama prepares to announce a major escalation of the conflict, now in its ninth year, with up to 35,000 more US troops.
It points the finger directly at Rumsfeld for turning down requests for reinforcements as Bin Laden was trapped in December 2001 in caves and tunnels in a mountainous area of eastern Afghanistan known as Tora Bora.
"The vast array of American military power, from sniper teams to the most mobile divisions of the marine corps and the army, was kept on the sidelines," the report says.
"Instead, the US command chose to rely on airstrikes and untrained Afghan militias to attack Bin Laden and on Pakistan's loosely organized Frontier Corps to seal his escape routes."
Entitled "Tora Bora revisited: how we failed to get Bin Laden and why it matters today," the report -- commissioned by Senator John Kerry, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee -- says Bin Laden expected to die and had even written a will.
"But the Al-Qaeda leader would live to fight another day. Fewer than 100 American commandos were on the scene with their Afghan allies and calls for reinforcements to launch an assault were rejected.
"Requests were also turned down for US troops to block the mountain paths leading to sanctuary a few miles away in Pakistan.
"The decision not to deploy American forces to go after Bin Laden or block his escape was made by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and his top commander, General Tommy Franks," the report says. <more>

There is a former general who sits in on Fox who reported this is true. It was on Fox's website forever, plus you could find the same report on the military website. I believe the story goes that "we had reasonably good intelligence" that he was in a certain place at a certain time. And that is the best you can expect. But we chose not to bomb.

Perhaps because the Bush oil family does business with the Bin Ladin family? Young GW did business with the Bin Ladin's. What did they need in a petty texas oil well? Really? They purchased him 20 years ago. They knew he would be president because he stole it in 2000 and 2004. Bush let 9-11 happen so he could lie us into Iraq. Been planning this for years. And they got away with it all. And we funded it. They privatized the profits and socialized the losses on us, sucker!

I know it is hard to believe that your hero's are traitors and thieves. Not to mention the bankers looted the treasury on Bush's way out. Iraq wasn't enough. Suckers!

They knew he would be president because he stole it in 2000 and 2004. Bush let 9-11 happen so he could lie us into Iraq. Been planning this for years. And they got away with it all.

And you don't realize just how fucking stupid this makes you sound? Planning it for years? yet 911 happened less than a year after he won the election

 

[SFC Ollie]

I find it moderately amusing that so many who haven't a clue as to the topography of the Tora Bora area, think it was so easy to just move in a few thousand troops and cut off any chance of a dozen guys on foot or horse back who knew ever little rock and shrub in the area, from sneaking out of that area. Hell they could have moved one mile to a different cave and we never would have found them.

We are talking about some of the most treacherous terrain in the entire world. Just try even using Google Earth and really look at the area.

Exactly correct.

Where are you going to land? What are you going to do...march them in there in a few hours? Sometimes you libs just crack me up!!!!

Who needs to land?? Use a spooky gun ship with thermal sites.. UAV's can be used as well.. Choppers can land almost anywhere.. We did it in the jungles of Viet Nam, I am sure the desert would be a lot easier.. Less trees..

Some times you right tards crack me up!!

Afghanistan is nothing like Vietnam. Go to google earth and take a good look at that terrain. So easy for so many to point fingers.

 

[Claudette]

Guess all kinds believe the left wing blogs. Bush, Cheney and the Reps planned 9-11?????? Jeeze. Grow a brain.

 

[geauxtohell]

That's why that Senate paper is nothing more than a political attack on the right and Bush...You say you've been in country...how did you get there...please explain it to the others here...so they understand that you cannot simply send in 3 fucking divisions of troops into a mountain range 10,000 feet above sea level without any supply lines, infrastructure or accomodations.

My unit was not a rapid deployment unit. We flew commercial from our main base to Manas AFB in Tajikistan, and from there boarded C-130s into Kandahar, from there we flew via ring flight helicopters to our FOBs. The Battalion was ready to fight at bare bones at roughly two weeks post deployment. We weren't at 100% for about a month. By the time we got there in '04, the rotation system was well worked out. There wasn't the sense of urgency that capturing Bin Laden would necessitate though. So that's not necessarily a good indicator of what could or could not have happened at Tora Bora. The 82nd Airborne, 173rd Airborne, and 75th Ranger Regiment are all rapid deployment and are in a constant state of readiness. These units could also do an parachute drop onto the nearest drop zone and have been on the ground without the need for a landing strip or helicopters. But I won't Monday morning quarterback it anymore.

It appears most of the conflict is over the senior CIA officer's in the field's opinion of the matter. One, Bernstein, even claims that CENTCOM had denied him the resources he requested.

MR. SCHROEN: We had done--followed the same lead we had taken since September of '01 in defeating the Taliban. We were attacking with U.S. military forces against the al-Qaeda and Taliban militants, and we hired local tribal leaders to guard the escape routes into Pakistan. Unfortunately, many of those people proved to be loyal to bin Laden and sympathizers with the Taliban and they allowed the key guys to escape.

MR. RUSSERT: In the heat of the presidential campaign in 2004, John Kerry as part of his stump speech in effect would say things like this. Let's watch.

(Videotape, October 30, 2004):

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D-MA): As I have said for two years now, when Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda were cornered in the mountains of Tora Bora, it was wrong to outsource the job of capturing them to Afghan warlords who a week earlier were fighting against us.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Should we have had more U.S. troops in Afghanistan circling Tora Bora to prevent his escape?

MR. SCHROEN: In hindsight that would have been ideal. We fought a special operations war. It was CIA and Army Green Berets on the ground directing the bombing campaign. It was only late in the campaign that U.S. ground forces came in, and the evolution, I think, simply we didn't take it far enough. If we'd have had one more battle after Tora Bora, we probably would have gotten it right.

MR. RUSSERT: Again, in October of 2004, in the presidential campaign, after John Kerry made those charges, General Tommy Franks offered this observation. "We don't know to this day whether Mr. bin Laden was at Tora Bora in December 2001. ...Mr. bin Laden was never within our grasp."

You just disagree with that?

MR. SCHROEN: I absolutely do, yes.

MR. RUSSERT: And President Bush and Vice President Cheney all quoted General Franks, saying: "We don't know if bin Laden was at Tora Bora." You have no doubt.

MR. SCHROEN: I have no doubt that he was there.

Transcript for May 8 - Meet the Press- msnbc.com

By mid-November, it was clear that Tora Bora was going to be the Taliban's last stand.
How bin Laden got away | csmonitor.com

Bin Ladin, by most accounts, got away in mid-December. That left the most powerful nation on earth one month to put this thing together.

I believe we could have done it hindsight being 20/20.

We just missed the ball. That falls on Bush's shoulders as the CINC, as does every success or failure. However, I am not sure Kerry would have done any better.

I certainly don't think it was a conspiracy to let Bin Laden get away. I just think it was a fuck up. We failed to anticipate that Bin Laden would try to escape. So much so that the only "blocking" positions we had were manned by local pashtun warlords who undoubtedly took our money, and Bin Laden's money.

 

[geauxtohell]

Again, I can't speak for the Senate paper, but Special Operations were already there and according to one operator were in position to take out Osama, but their mission was denied.

The bottom line is that we trusted the Pashtun.

Big, big mistake.

That's why that Senate paper is nothing more than a political attack on the right and Bush...You say you've been in country...how did you get there...please explain it to the others here...so they understand that you cannot simply send in 3 fucking divisions of troops into a mountain range 10,000 feet above sea level without any supply lines, infrastructure or accomodations.

Oh, now you are not only are willing to believe that I was in country, but you want my opinion on the matter, to the point of being impatient, because you think it will support your own statements?

You got your response. I wouldn't have wasted my time If I knew you were going to be a jackass about it.

 

[geauxtohell]

And Bush had an opportunity to have the Taliban hand OBL over - but Bush refused. I'll agree that (imho) some of the terms were inappropriate - but he should have pursued negotiating better terms.

The Taliban was never going to fucking hand Bin Laden over. They were just stalling for time.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

That's why that Senate paper is nothing more than a political attack on the right and Bush...You say you've been in country...how did you get there...please explain it to the others here...so they understand that you cannot simply send in 3 fucking divisions of troops into a mountain range 10,000 feet above sea level without any supply lines, infrastructure or accomodations.

Oh, now you are not only are willing to believe that I was in country, but you want my opinion on the matter, to the point of being impatient, because you think it will support your own statements?

You got your response. I wouldn't have wasted my time If I knew you were going to be a jackass about it.

Fuck you grunt...When I'm eating popcorn it means I'M WAITING FOR A GODDAM ANSWER...Take your jackass comment and stick it....don't judge when you don't know.

 

[eots]

Guess all kinds believe the left wing blogs. Bush, Cheney and the Reps planned 9-11?????? Jeeze. Grow a brain.

it is not left-wing blogs ..its not about your phony two party state...jeez grow a brain

 

[geauxtohell]

Oh, now you are not only are willing to believe that I was in country, but you want my opinion on the matter, to the point of being impatient, because you think it will support your own statements?

You got your response. I wouldn't have wasted my time If I knew you were going to be a jackass about it.

Fuck you grunt...When I'm eating popcorn it means I'M WAITING FOR A GODDAM ANSWER...Take your jackass comment and stick it....don't judge when you don't know.

I know. I take exception to your impatience when you have basically called me a faker in past threads.

In other words, you'll get your fucking response when I get around to it. Which is exactly what happened.

My life doesn't exist to assist you in your petty internet ego-fest.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Oh, now you are not only are willing to believe that I was in country, but you want my opinion on the matter, to the point of being impatient, because you think it will support your own statements?

You got your response. I wouldn't have wasted my time If I knew you were going to be a jackass about it.

Fuck you grunt...When I'm eating popcorn it means I'M WAITING FOR A GODDAM ANSWER...Take your jackass comment and stick it....don't judge when you don't know.

I know. I take exception to your impatience when you have basically called me a faker in past threads.

In other words, you'll get your fucking response when I get around to it. Which is exactly what happened.

My life doesn't exist to assist you in your petty internet ego-fest.

blah blah blah......whatever.....excuse me for taking you at your word and giving you the benefit of the doubt...sorry I interrupted your anime finger banging session.

 

[geauxtohell]

Fuck you grunt...When I'm eating popcorn it means I'M WAITING FOR A GODDAM ANSWER...Take your jackass comment and stick it....don't judge when you don't know.

I know. I take exception to your impatience when you have basically called me a faker in past threads.

In other words, you'll get your fucking response when I get around to it. Which is exactly what happened.

My life doesn't exist to assist you in your petty internet ego-fest.

blah blah blah......whatever.....excuse me for taking you at your word and giving you the benefit of the doubt...sorry I interrupted your anime jerk off session.

Like I said, you got your got your response.

Have fun with it, Carl Von Clauswitz.

 

[Meister]

OK.

What is Kerry and his merry band of Libtards trying to distract us from this week?
Senate report: Bin Laden was 'within grasp' - Afghanistan- msnbc.com

Why do people think that Bin Laden is still alive?
I really do believe we got him with that Daisey Cutter bomb dropped in Dec. of 2001.
Bin Laden always liked to be in front of a camera. We saw him in front of a camera before and right after 9-11. If you remember he was praising the terrorists for such a good job they did. After the US used the Daisey Cutter on those two camps in Afganistan, we haven't seen him in front of camera since. We had voice messages from him, but the were low quality, and any Don Rickles could have passed a good voice impersonation of him.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

OK.

What is Kerry and his merry band of Libtards trying to distract us from this week?
Senate report: Bin Laden was 'within grasp' - Afghanistan- msnbc.com

Why do people think that Bin Laden is still alive?
I really do believe we got him with that Daisey Cutter bomb dropped in Dec. of 2001.
Bin Laden always liked to be in front of a camera. We saw him in front of a camera before and right after 9-11. If you remember he was praising the terrorists for such a good job they did. After the US used the Daisey Cutter on those two camps in Afganistan, we haven't seen him in front of camera since. We had voice messages from him, but the were low quality, and any Don Rickles could have passed a good voice impersonation of him.

Awesome...they actually rupture internal organs as far as a 1000 feet from the detonation site.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiP7-HBHwPc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiP7-HBHwPc[/ame]

 

[SFC Ollie]

OK.

What is Kerry and his merry band of Libtards trying to distract us from this week?
Senate report: Bin Laden was 'within grasp' - Afghanistan- msnbc.com

Why do people think that Bin Laden is still alive?
I really do believe we got him with that Daisey Cutter bomb dropped in Dec. of 2001.
Bin Laden always liked to be in front of a camera. We saw him in front of a camera before and right after 9-11. If you remember he was praising the terrorists for such a good job they did. After the US used the Daisey Cutter on those two camps in Afganistan, we haven't seen him in front of camera since. We had voice messages from him, but the were low quality, and any Don Rickles could have passed a good voice impersonation of him.

I have often pointed out the same thing, Why hasn't there even been a photograph of him. With our spy satellites even we should have been able to spot his ass somewhere. And yes he loved the spot light.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Oh, now you are not only are willing to believe that I was in country, but you want my opinion on the matter, to the point of being impatient, because you think it will support your own statements?

You got your response. I wouldn't have wasted my time If I knew you were going to be a jackass about it.

Fuck you grunt...When I'm eating popcorn it means I'M WAITING FOR A GODDAM ANSWER...Take your jackass comment and stick it....don't judge when you don't know.

I know. I take exception to your impatience when you have basically called me a faker in past threads.

In other words, you'll get your fucking response when I get around to it. Which is exactly what happened.

My life doesn't exist to assist you in your petty internet ego-fest.

definately a woman....no doubt.

 

[rdean]

Of course, Republicans will say it's a lie. Republicans have a problem with reality. Much better to just make up their own. They even believe we won in Iraq. Even as Iraq slaughters their own Christians and drives them out of a homeland they lived in since before Islam existed. If it doesn't fit in with the Republican version of reality, it's a lie. They will accept nothing else.