Palin kicks Demobama Butt !!!

Lumpy 1

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2009
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I'm amazed at the power the liberal media has bestowed upon Sarah Palin by hating, fearing and generally disrespecting her so much. All she had to do is mention Death Panels and she gets results, amazing! :clap2:

Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision Heh. Palin power.

The Senate Finance Committee will drop a controversial provision on consultations for end-of-life care from its proposed healthcare bill, its top Republican member said Thursday.

The committee, which has worked on putting together a bipartisan healthcare reform bill, will drop the controversial provision after it was derided by conservatives as "death panels" to encourage euthanasia.

They are dropping the death panel. But frankly, they will drop it back in once the health care rout is passed. It's not enough. NO OBAMACARE.

Obama's Ration Man: Rahm's brother Ezekiel Emanuel (read the whole thing at Political Evidence):

President Obama’s chief advisor on healthcare is Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. In addition to Dr. Emanuel being a trained oncologist, an NIH Bioethicist and a fellow at the nonprofit bioethics research institute, The Hastings Center, he's also an avowed communitarian who advocates healthcare rationing.

In February 2009, he was tapped by the administration to work on the formulation of a national healthcare strategy. Officially, Dr. Emanuel is a special advisor to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. In February Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that he is "working on (the) health care reform effort." He is "detailed" to the OMB spot and is still officially an employee of the NIH.
In Dr. Emanuel’s writings, he overtly advocates the rationing of healthcare based on age. In January 2009, just one month prior to taking his new position at the White House, Dr. Emanuel co-wrote an article entitled, “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions”, in the British medical journal The Lancet. In this article he advocates a particular healthcare allocation system which he calls the “complete lives system.” He declared in The Lancet article that in healthcare, “scarcity is the mother of allocation." He explains, “This system (complete lives system) incorporates five principles: youngest-first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value. As such, it prioritizes younger people who have not yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so without aid.”

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior. He goes further. He flatly declares that “Consideration of the importance of complete lives also supports modifying the youngest-first principle by prioritizing adolescents and young adults over infants.” From his standpoint, society has already made an economic investment in the lives of young adults whereas no significant investment has yet been made in the lives of infants, so therefore it’s only “fair” that resources be allocated toward the young adults and away from the infants. He also applies this standard to those that he deems of “no societal worth” such as people with Down syndrome. Sadly, this mindset is eerily similar to that of German National Socialists (Nazis) for the Nazis rationalized their evil attacks against the disabled and vulnerable of their society by throwing out the false notion of "Das Leben nicht lebenswert" or "the life not worth living." This was coupled with claims that the disabled were a financial burden on society. The propaganda poster below illustrates the point well.
(from Pamella Gellar, Atlas Shrugs)

Government Controlled Healthcare, a Hand that Rocks, Cradles to Graves
“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.”
- Vladimir Lenin
 
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I'm amazed at the power the liberal media has bestowed upon Sarah Palin by hating, fearing and generally disrespecting her so much. All she had to do is mention Death Panels and she gets results, amazing! :clap2:

Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision Heh. Palin power.

The Senate Finance Committee will drop a controversial provision on consultations for end-of-life care from its proposed healthcare bill, its top Republican member said Thursday.

The committee, which has worked on putting together a bipartisan healthcare reform bill, will drop the controversial provision after it was derided by conservatives as "death panels" to encourage euthanasia.

They are dropping the death panel. But frankly, they will drop it back in once the health care rout is passed. It's not enough. NO OBAMACARE.

Obama's Ration Man: Rahm's brother Ezekiel Emanuel (read the whole thing at Political Evidence):

President Obama’s chief advisor on healthcare is Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. In addition to Dr. Emanuel being a trained oncologist, an NIH Bioethicist and a fellow at the nonprofit bioethics research institute, The Hastings Center, he's also an avowed communitarian who advocates healthcare rationing.

In February 2009, he was tapped by the administration to work on the formulation of a national healthcare strategy. Officially, Dr. Emanuel is a special advisor to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. In February Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that he is "working on (the) health care reform effort." He is "detailed" to the OMB spot and is still officially an employee of the NIH.
In Dr. Emanuel’s writings, he overtly advocates the rationing of healthcare based on age. In January 2009, just one month prior to taking his new position at the White House, Dr. Emanuel co-wrote an article entitled, “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions”, in the British medical journal The Lancet. In this article he advocates a particular healthcare allocation system which he calls the “complete lives system.” He declared in The Lancet article that in healthcare, “scarcity is the mother of allocation." He explains, “This system (complete lives system) incorporates five principles: youngest-first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value. As such, it prioritizes younger people who have not yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so without aid.”

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior. He goes further. He flatly declares that “Consideration of the importance of complete lives also supports modifying the youngest-first principle by prioritizing adolescents and young adults over infants.” From his standpoint, society has already made an economic investment in the lives of young adults whereas no significant investment has yet been made in the lives of infants, so therefore it’s only “fair” that resources be allocated toward the young adults and away from the infants. He also applies this standard to those that he deems of “no societal worth” such as people with Down syndrome. Sadly, this mindset is eerily similar to that of German National Socialists (Nazis) for the Nazis rationalized their evil attacks against the disabled and vulnerable of their society by throwing out the false notion of "Das Leben nicht lebenswert" or "the life not worth living." This was coupled with claims that the disabled were a financial burden on society. The propaganda poster below illustrates the point well.
(from Pamella Gellar, Atlas Shrugged)

Government Controlled Healthcare, a Hand that Rocks, Cradles to Graves
“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.”
- Vladimir Lenin


Palin has dominated the public discourse and Obamacare is running a distant second...
 
I'm amazed at the power the liberal media has bestowed upon Sarah Palin by hating, fearing and generally disrespecting her so much. All she had to do is mention Death Panels and she gets results, amazing! :clap2:

Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision Heh. Palin power.

The Senate Finance Committee will drop a controversial provision on consultations for end-of-life care from its proposed healthcare bill, its top Republican member said Thursday.

The committee, which has worked on putting together a bipartisan healthcare reform bill, will drop the controversial provision after it was derided by conservatives as "death panels" to encourage euthanasia.

They are dropping the death panel. But frankly, they will drop it back in once the health care rout is passed. It's not enough. NO OBAMACARE.

Obama's Ration Man: Rahm's brother Ezekiel Emanuel (read the whole thing at Political Evidence):

President Obama’s chief advisor on healthcare is Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. In addition to Dr. Emanuel being a trained oncologist, an NIH Bioethicist and a fellow at the nonprofit bioethics research institute, The Hastings Center, he's also an avowed communitarian who advocates healthcare rationing.

In February 2009, he was tapped by the administration to work on the formulation of a national healthcare strategy. Officially, Dr. Emanuel is a special advisor to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. In February Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that he is "working on (the) health care reform effort." He is "detailed" to the OMB spot and is still officially an employee of the NIH.
In Dr. Emanuel’s writings, he overtly advocates the rationing of healthcare based on age. In January 2009, just one month prior to taking his new position at the White House, Dr. Emanuel co-wrote an article entitled, “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions”, in the British medical journal The Lancet. In this article he advocates a particular healthcare allocation system which he calls the “complete lives system.” He declared in The Lancet article that in healthcare, “scarcity is the mother of allocation." He explains, “This system (complete lives system) incorporates five principles: youngest-first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value. As such, it prioritizes younger people who have not yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so without aid.”

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior. He goes further. He flatly declares that “Consideration of the importance of complete lives also supports modifying the youngest-first principle by prioritizing adolescents and young adults over infants.” From his standpoint, society has already made an economic investment in the lives of young adults whereas no significant investment has yet been made in the lives of infants, so therefore it’s only “fair” that resources be allocated toward the young adults and away from the infants. He also applies this standard to those that he deems of “no societal worth” such as people with Down syndrome. Sadly, this mindset is eerily similar to that of German National Socialists (Nazis) for the Nazis rationalized their evil attacks against the disabled and vulnerable of their society by throwing out the false notion of "Das Leben nicht lebenswert" or "the life not worth living." This was coupled with claims that the disabled were a financial burden on society. The propaganda poster below illustrates the point well.
(from Pamella Gellar, Atlas Shrugged)

Government Controlled Healthcare, a Hand that Rocks, Cradles to Graves
“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.”
- Vladimir Lenin

Can I just take issue with a few assertions you've made?

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior.

The article is about how scarce medical resources – organs and vaccines – should be distributed. Let me give you a simple example.

There are two people who need an organ transplant to continue to live. One is sixteen years of age and otherwise perfectly healthy. The other is eighty years of age. Who should get the single organ that is available for transplant?

He flatly declares that “Consideration of the importance of complete lives also supports modifying the youngest-first principle by prioritizing adolescents and young adults over infants.”

Again, let's say that an infant of three months of age and a person of sixteen years of age both need a vaccine to keep them alive. There is only one vaccination available. Who should be given the vaccination?

He also applies this standard to those that he deems of “no societal worth” such as people with Down syndrome.

There are two infants. Both are three months of age. Both will die within a week unless they receive an organ transplant. An organ becomes available. Which infant should received the organ?

Can you answer those questions?
 
I'm amazed at the power the liberal media has bestowed upon Sarah Palin by hating, fearing and generally disrespecting her so much. All she had to do is mention Death Panels and she gets results, amazing! :clap2:

Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision Heh. Palin power.

The Senate Finance Committee will drop a controversial provision on consultations for end-of-life care from its proposed healthcare bill, its top Republican member said Thursday.

The committee, which has worked on putting together a bipartisan healthcare reform bill, will drop the controversial provision after it was derided by conservatives as "death panels" to encourage euthanasia.

They are dropping the death panel. But frankly, they will drop it back in once the health care rout is passed. It's not enough. NO OBAMACARE.

Obama's Ration Man: Rahm's brother Ezekiel Emanuel (read the whole thing at Political Evidence):

President Obama’s chief advisor on healthcare is Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. In addition to Dr. Emanuel being a trained oncologist, an NIH Bioethicist and a fellow at the nonprofit bioethics research institute, The Hastings Center, he's also an avowed communitarian who advocates healthcare rationing.

In February 2009, he was tapped by the administration to work on the formulation of a national healthcare strategy. Officially, Dr. Emanuel is a special advisor to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. In February Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that he is "working on (the) health care reform effort." He is "detailed" to the OMB spot and is still officially an employee of the NIH.
In Dr. Emanuel’s writings, he overtly advocates the rationing of healthcare based on age. In January 2009, just one month prior to taking his new position at the White House, Dr. Emanuel co-wrote an article entitled, “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions”, in the British medical journal The Lancet. In this article he advocates a particular healthcare allocation system which he calls the “complete lives system.” He declared in The Lancet article that in healthcare, “scarcity is the mother of allocation." He explains, “This system (complete lives system) incorporates five principles: youngest-first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value. As such, it prioritizes younger people who have not yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so without aid.”

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior. He goes further. He flatly declares that “Consideration of the importance of complete lives also supports modifying the youngest-first principle by prioritizing adolescents and young adults over infants.” From his standpoint, society has already made an economic investment in the lives of young adults whereas no significant investment has yet been made in the lives of infants, so therefore it’s only “fair” that resources be allocated toward the young adults and away from the infants. He also applies this standard to those that he deems of “no societal worth” such as people with Down syndrome. Sadly, this mindset is eerily similar to that of German National Socialists (Nazis) for the Nazis rationalized their evil attacks against the disabled and vulnerable of their society by throwing out the false notion of "Das Leben nicht lebenswert" or "the life not worth living." This was coupled with claims that the disabled were a financial burden on society. The propaganda poster below illustrates the point well.
(from Pamella Gellar, Atlas Shrugged)

Government Controlled Healthcare, a Hand that Rocks, Cradles to Graves
“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.”
- Vladimir Lenin

Can I just take issue with a few assertions you've made?

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior.


There are two people who need an organ transplant to continue to live. One is sixteen years of age and otherwise perfectly healthy. The other is eighty years of age. Who should get the single organ that is available for transplant?

Can you answer those questions?

the 16 year old is an obese iv drug user and the eighty year old is a body builder and productive member of society

the old man get the transplant
 
Diuretic Diuretic is offline
The Sultan of Spin
Member #3196

Great questions and I think if you went to the blog Atlas Shrugs you may get a more profound answer than I could give!
To be honest with you, I find your queries quite confounding and seem incapable of a proper answer at this time. I'll sleep on it and get back with you.
 
Diuretic Diuretic is offline
The Sultan of Spin
Member #3196

Great questions and I think if you went to the blog Atlas Shrugs you may get a more profound answer than I could give!
To be honest with you, I find your queries quite confounding and seem incapable of a proper answer at this time. I'll sleep on it and get back with you.

Okay, much appreciated.
 
Palin was for end of life counseling when she was the Gov...before she quit being the gov, that is...now she's just a liar.
 
I'm amazed at the power the liberal media has bestowed upon Sarah Palin by hating, fearing and generally disrespecting her so much. All she had to do is mention Death Panels and she gets results, amazing! :clap2:

Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision Heh. Palin power.

The Senate Finance Committee will drop a controversial provision on consultations for end-of-life care from its proposed healthcare bill, its top Republican member said Thursday.

The committee, which has worked on putting together a bipartisan healthcare reform bill, will drop the controversial provision after it was derided by conservatives as "death panels" to encourage euthanasia.

They are dropping the death panel. But frankly, they will drop it back in once the health care rout is passed. It's not enough. NO OBAMACARE.

Obama's Ration Man: Rahm's brother Ezekiel Emanuel (read the whole thing at Political Evidence):

President Obama’s chief advisor on healthcare is Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. In addition to Dr. Emanuel being a trained oncologist, an NIH Bioethicist and a fellow at the nonprofit bioethics research institute, The Hastings Center, he's also an avowed communitarian who advocates healthcare rationing.

In February 2009, he was tapped by the administration to work on the formulation of a national healthcare strategy. Officially, Dr. Emanuel is a special advisor to the director of the White House Office of Management and Budget for health policy. In February Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times reported that he is "working on (the) health care reform effort." He is "detailed" to the OMB spot and is still officially an employee of the NIH.
In Dr. Emanuel’s writings, he overtly advocates the rationing of healthcare based on age. In January 2009, just one month prior to taking his new position at the White House, Dr. Emanuel co-wrote an article entitled, “Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions”, in the British medical journal The Lancet. In this article he advocates a particular healthcare allocation system which he calls the “complete lives system.” He declared in The Lancet article that in healthcare, “scarcity is the mother of allocation." He explains, “This system (complete lives system) incorporates five principles: youngest-first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value. As such, it prioritizes younger people who have not yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so without aid.”

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior. He goes further. He flatly declares that “Consideration of the importance of complete lives also supports modifying the youngest-first principle by prioritizing adolescents and young adults over infants.” From his standpoint, society has already made an economic investment in the lives of young adults whereas no significant investment has yet been made in the lives of infants, so therefore it’s only “fair” that resources be allocated toward the young adults and away from the infants. He also applies this standard to those that he deems of “no societal worth” such as people with Down syndrome. Sadly, this mindset is eerily similar to that of German National Socialists (Nazis) for the Nazis rationalized their evil attacks against the disabled and vulnerable of their society by throwing out the false notion of "Das Leben nicht lebenswert" or "the life not worth living." This was coupled with claims that the disabled were a financial burden on society. The propaganda poster below illustrates the point well.
(from Pamella Gellar, Atlas Shrugged)

Government Controlled Healthcare, a Hand that Rocks, Cradles to Graves
“Medicine is the keystone of the arch of socialism.”
- Vladimir Lenin

Can I just take issue with a few assertions you've made?

In other words, Dr. Emanuel places a higher value on a young adult's life, than he would the life of a senior.


There are two people who need an organ transplant to continue to live. One is sixteen years of age and otherwise perfectly healthy. The other is eighty years of age. Who should get the single organ that is available for transplant?

Can you answer those questions?

the 16 year old is an obese iv drug user and the eighty year old is a body builder and productive member of society

the old man get the transplant


However, if Mickey Mantle comes along with a booze destroyed liver, he gets the transplant first.
 
Diuretic Diuretic is offline
The Sultan of Spin
Member #3196
*There are two people who need an organ transplant to continue to live. One is sixteen years of age and otherwise perfectly healthy. The other is eighty years of age. Who should get the single organ that is available for transplant?

I would explain my dilemma to the eighty year old and the family of the sixteen year old and ask for their consul. If no resolution in favor of the 16 year old I would go for a coin toss.

*Again, let's say that an infant of three months of age and a person of sixteen years of age both need a vaccine to keep them alive. There is only one vaccination available. Who should be given the vaccination?

I would consider both lives of equal value, given these limited facts and would go for a coin toss.

*There are two infants. Both are three months of age. Both will die within a week unless they receive an organ transplant. An organ becomes available. Which infant should received the organ?

Again with the coin toss.

Sometimes things just have to be left to fate and can't be judged fairly. I come from the perspective that all life has equal value. The old versus young example caused me the most problem because of limited information. The resolution is too simplified but I see no other choices.
 
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Okay, I take your point.

Now mine.

The principle of all lives being equal is attractive but as a principle it isn't useful when decisions about scarce medical interventions have to be made. That's a point I would like to make. I would also like to make the point that the complete llives system isn't immune from criticism but that criticism should at least be fair.
 
*The principle of all lives being equal is attractive but as a principle it isn't useful when decisions about scarce medical interventions have to be made.

Okay then, in your world who makes the decision, competing doctors, the patients, a government panel, a coin tosser or what?

*I would also like to make the point that the complete llives system isn't immune from criticism but that criticism should at least be fair.

fair, mmm... something about eye of the beholder, free thought and impossible dilemmas.
 
*The principle of all lives being equal is attractive but as a principle it isn't useful when decisions about scarce medical interventions have to be made.

Okay then, in your world who makes the decision, competing doctors, the patients, a government panel, a coin tosser or what?

*I would also like to make the point that the complete llives system isn't immune from criticism but that criticism should at least be fair.

fair, mmm... something about eye of the beholder, free thought and impossible dilemmas.

Who makes the decision? Anyone who properly understands the agreed principles.

Criticism has a purpose and its purpose is to try and achieve clarity, to improve. Unfortunately in this sort of discussion "criticism" is frequently changed into a clamorous attack which seeks to destroy rather than improve.
 

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