Pacifism and the Left

[midcan5]

Here are a few more...

Democrats

Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam
Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star
George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of missions during WWII.
Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student deferments; in the autumn of 1969, Clinton entered the draft but received a high number (311) and was never called to serve. (CNN article.) "...it was his doubts about the morality of the war and the Selective Service system that led him to abandon the ROTC idea and to subject himself to a draft lottery. Only the luck of the draw - a high lottery number - kept him out. " (Jeff Greenfield, ABC News, quoting Gov. Clinton.)
Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, seven years in the Navy. "Except for his fellow service-academy graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent more years in uniform than Carter." (New Yorker Magazine)
Former Presidential Nominee Mike Dukakis - United States Army, 1955-'57 (1)
Former Senator/Vice Presidential nominee Lloyd Bentsen - B-24 pilot in WWII 1942-'45, Squadron Commander; earned Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal with three Oak Leaf Clusters. (1)
Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953
Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea; extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.
Representative Bud Cramer (D-AL) - joined the Army as a tank officer in 1972; served at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and continued military service as a member of the Army Reserve from 1976 to 1978. (link)

Republicans/Conservatives

Political
Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve (1)
Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve (1, 2)
Senator John Cornyn, R-TX - did not serve. (1)
Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve (1, 2)
Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, (formerly) fifth-ranking Republican in the House - did not serve. (1)
Rep. John T. Doolittle, R-CA, sixth-ranking Republican in the House - did not serve.
Rep. Mark Kirk, R-IL -- his website claimed he served in Operation Iraqi Freedom; in reality, he had to correct the record.
Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve (1, 2), had a "bad knee" (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland's patriotism)
Rep. Randy Kuhl, R-NY - Did not serve. (1)
Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve (1, 2)
Jack Kemp, did not serve (1, 2) (was unfit because of a knee injury, though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback for another eight years - source)
Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at 150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW) (1, 2)
Eliot Abrams, did not serve (1, 2) (however, played a key role in subverting democracy in South America)
Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve (1, 2)
Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve (1, 2)
Richard Perle, did not serve (1, 2) (is the current bloodshed in the Middle East a direct result of his treasonous meddling in Clinton Administrstion foreign policy?)
Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve. (1)
Michael Bloomberg, did not serve (1, 2)
George Pataki, did not serve (1, 2)
Spencer Abraham, did not serve
John Engler, did not serve (1, 2)
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a "Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve (1)
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service.
Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve (1)
Rep. Todd Platts, R-PA - did not serve (1)
Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition
Senator Joe Lieberman - did not serve.


Link above

 

[JoeB131]

One of my Left-wing buddies posted this in a recent thread:
"War and violence is fine with wingnuts so long as they don't have to fight it. Killing is fine and justified because you are scared. Hypocrite thy name is right wing conservative apologist for murder and death."

I thought the idea worthy of a deeper analysis....


1. Following WWI, and reaching an apex during the Vietnam War, the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism. The bumper-sticker “War is Not the Answer” expresses a nearly universal Left-wing view.

Not going to go into your silly numbering OCD Crap, but I think this whole thing shows a lack of knowledge of history.... Is this what they are teaching in Home Skule these days?

Let's review- WWI- Entered into by Progressive, Internationalist Woodrow Wilson. Republicans and the right largely opposed.

After the war, Republicans worked for and got such disarmorment measures as the Washington Naval Treaty (which limited the number of war ships the US Could build) and the Kellogg-Briand pact, which "outlawed" war (Yeah, that was helpful.) They also fought to keep the US out of the League of Nations.

WWII - Entered into by Progressive FDR. Republicans were opposed pretty much right up to Pearl Harbor being bombed.

Korea- Again, entered into by Harry Truman.

Now at this point, Republicans finally, finally figured out Isolationism was a practical impossibility. So they nominated Ike and Ike pretty much admitted the Democrats were right. But it could have gone the other way with Robert Taft pushing for Isolationism again.

Now, Vietnam, started with gusto by a Democrat named LBJ. But it was at that point that the hippies hijacked the Democratic party, and really, they have been anti-war ever since in various ways. Probably the only reason why I'm not a democrat now, because the REpublicans are really screwed up on social and economic issues, they get it right on the military issues.

But really, neither party is willing to sit down with us and have an adult conversation about why the US needs to spend 900 billion a year on the military and the rest of the world just benefits from the arrangement.

 

[Pho_King]

Talk about a load of nonsense. While you have pacifism elements on the left, you also have them on the right (see Robert Taft historically, or Ron Paul today). I can't really think of any prominent politicians on the left today who are pacifists (see Obama's frequent references to Niebuhr).

I'd also question the claim that "The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good". That's true in the right's approach to foreign policy, but it's not even remotely true to most other policy areas. You have to believe that man is inherently good to believe unregulated markets will balance themselves.

I would agree completely. Its not that the left is filled with pacifists. Its filled with pussies.

 

[dilloduck]

War like Capitalism begets competition for resources and that's just not fair. I bet unicorns don't fight over anything.

 

[Polk]

OWS is as pacifist as the tea party is.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HequVgLRPUo]OWS: Occupy Oakland Violence - Police Shoot Veteran In The Face - Protesters In War Zone - YouTube[/ame]

Did you even watch the video in posted? That's not showing the protesters being violent. The cops, on the other hand...

 

[Polk]

Talk about a load of nonsense. While you have pacifism elements on the left, you also have them on the right (see Robert Taft historically, or Ron Paul today). I can't really think of any prominent politicians on the left today who are pacifists (see Obama's frequent references to Niebuhr).

I'd also question the claim that "The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good". That's true in the right's approach to foreign policy, but it's not even remotely true to most other policy areas. You have to believe that man is inherently good to believe unregulated markets will balance themselves.

I would agree completely. Its not that the left is filled with pacifists. Its filled with pussies.

You should ask bin Laden about that.

 

[Moonglow]

Talk about a load of nonsense. While you have pacifism elements on the left, you also have them on the right (see Robert Taft historically, or Ron Paul today). I can't really think of any prominent politicians on the left today who are pacifists (see Obama's frequent references to Niebuhr).

I'd also question the claim that "The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good". That's true in the right's approach to foreign policy, but it's not even remotely true to most other policy areas. You have to believe that man is inherently good to believe unregulated markets will balance themselves.

You look so nice in that outfit....pity I'm forced to grind you to dust....

1. While there are folks who endorse a myriad of positions, even Liberal Democrats who were anti-communist during the 50's....
Even so, it would be difficult for you to deny that the general position of Liberals, Democrats, were anti-anti-communist. Did you read Kangor's "Dupes"?

To this day they rail against the hero Senator McCarthy, and, without the evidence of the Venona Files, would still deny that Hiss, the Rosenbergs, et.al. were paid agents of the Soviet Union.

Care to argue that?
Didn't think so.

2.Now, as for the veracity of the OP, I note you didn't pick out specifics in the OP with which to contend....
...the reason is obvious.

a. "...the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism. The bumper-sticker “War is Not the Answer” ..."

b. they despise any " sign of militarism,"...need I provide a copy of the Colonel Holmes letter?

c. how about "oppose children viewing cartoons, like Bugs Bunny, that depict a stylized violence, not to mention playing with toy guns, war scenarios, or even drawing stick figures portraying violence."
Need news articles about children being suspended for said drawings...?

d. How about the Chris Hayes incident..."referring to military dead as heroes."



3. Now, since all the specifics are provable....if I were you, I'd look to spin the analysis, such as

a. "Liberals and Leftists is an aversion to recognizing or acknowledging evil"

or

b. the Left's discomfort with "traditional Judeo-Christian values..."

or

c. "The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good,..."

I think 'c.' is your best shot.
Here, this might help:


In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.”
-http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html

You could try to say that the Left merely sees mankind as perfectible....


Just tryin' to help...

Man is inperfect and has adapted and changed in his poli/soci environment to perfect his way of existence. To say that we are not would be to say that we are still in the stone age afraid of change.

nd as far as you , you are not perfect either.

Want to see right winged pacifism? Look at Westboro church and all the right winged people that hide behind their religion to shirk military duty.
I would like to thank you for your military service.

 

[Moonglow]

The TV Parental Guidelines system was first proposed on December 19, 1996 by the United States Congress, the television industry and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), and went into effect by January 1, 1997 on most major U.S. broadcast and cable networks in response to public concerns of increasingly explicit sexual content, graphic violence and strong profanity in television programs. It was established as a voluntary-participation system, with ratings to be determined by the individually-participating broadcast and cable networks.

TV Parental Guidelines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This act was established by a republican led majority in both houses of Congress. The backlash over violent cartoons was led by republicans not democrats.

 

[Polk]

Talk about a load of nonsense. While you have pacifism elements on the left, you also have them on the right (see Robert Taft historically, or Ron Paul today). I can't really think of any prominent politicians on the left today who are pacifists (see Obama's frequent references to Niebuhr).

I'd also question the claim that "The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good". That's true in the right's approach to foreign policy, but it's not even remotely true to most other policy areas. You have to believe that man is inherently good to believe unregulated markets will balance themselves.

You look so nice in that outfit....pity I'm forced to grind you to dust....

1. While there are folks who endorse a myriad of positions, even Liberal Democrats who were anti-communist during the 50's....
Even so, it would be difficult for you to deny that the general position of Liberals, Democrats, were anti-anti-communist. Did you read Kangor's "Dupes"?

To this day they rail against the hero Senator McCarthy, and, without the evidence of the Venona Files, would still deny that Hiss, the Rosenbergs, et.al. were paid agents of the Soviet Union.

Care to argue that?
Didn't think so.

2.Now, as for the veracity of the OP, I note you didn't pick out specifics in the OP with which to contend....
...the reason is obvious.

a. "...the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism. The bumper-sticker “War is Not the Answer” ..."

b. they despise any " sign of militarism,"...need I provide a copy of the Colonel Holmes letter?

c. how about "oppose children viewing cartoons, like Bugs Bunny, that depict a stylized violence, not to mention playing with toy guns, war scenarios, or even drawing stick figures portraying violence."
Need news articles about children being suspended for said drawings...?

d. How about the Chris Hayes incident..."referring to military dead as heroes."



3. Now, since all the specifics are provable....if I were you, I'd look to spin the analysis, such as

a. "Liberals and Leftists is an aversion to recognizing or acknowledging evil"

or

b. the Left's discomfort with "traditional Judeo-Christian values..."

or

c. "The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good,..."

I think 'c.' is your best shot.
Here, this might help:


In 1969, Hillary Rodham gave the student commencement address at Wellesley in which she said that “ for too long our leaders have used politics as the art of making what appears to be impossible, possible….We’re not interested in social reconstruction; it’s human reconstruction.”
-http://www.wellesley.edu/PublicAffairs/Commencement/1969/053169hillary.html

You could try to say that the Left merely sees mankind as perfectible....

Just tryin' to help...

I'll focus on the Chris Hayes incident, since someone else already pointed out that the backlash against violent in cartoons/media generally came from the right.

What exactly was so outrageous about the comment Hayes made? He said using the term "hero" can often times bleed from crediting people for their service to claiming that war is a necessity. And guess what? That's absolutely true. Look at countless numbers of threads here, and you'll see conservatives claiming liberals "hate the troops" because they don't see a particular military intervention as worthwhile.

I'd go one step further on the "hero" question though. The idea that everyone who has served in the military is a "hero" is complete rubbish. If everyone who serves is a "hero", we've turned the word into a meaningless catchphrase that degrades the service of those who have performed true acts of heroism (rescuing a wounded comrade from enemy fire, falling on a grenade to save the rest of the unit). On the flip side, not everyone who has ever put on the uniform is a saint. There are tons of people who served in the military while also having drug problems, or beating their spouse, or any number of other terrible things. Are they great human beings in spite of that because of their chosen line of work? It's a noble sacrifice to serve, especially in a period where the nation is in a conflict and there is no draft, but making that choice doesn't absolve people of responsibility for the other actions they commit.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Okay, I will grant the Conservatives / Republicans used to own the issue of defense. Then came Bush (the idiot, not the one I voted for). What a mess.
Then came Obama and the strangest danm thing happened! The Left was suddenly cheering about taking out more AQ and Taliban leaders in three years, than Bush did in seven. Then came the invasion of a nuclear ally to take out OBL. Then came the drone strike of Al Qeada member Al-Awlaki and suddenly it's the Dems that are hawks and the danm GOP sounds like choir boys from the ACLU. Then Boehner cries "Why isn't Obama DOING anything in Libya!".
One day before he does.
In.
Out.
Cheap.
No lives lost.
Exit strategy!

So much for trying to label the LibDems as "pacifists".
They're not against going after our enemies.
They just do it better.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

One of my Left-wing buddies posted this in a recent thread:
"War and violence is fine with wingnuts so long as they don't have to fight it. Killing is fine and justified because you are scared. Hypocrite thy name is right wing conservative apologist for murder and death."

I thought the idea worthy of a deeper analysis....


1. Following WWI, and reaching an apex during the Vietnam War, the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism. The bumper-sticker “War is Not the Answer” expresses a nearly universal Left-wing view.

a. The Left believes that just about every conflict can be settled through negotiations, that war solves nothing, and that American expenditures on defense are merely a sign of militarism, imperialism, and the insatiable appetite of the “military-industrial complex.”

b. In fact, violence is deemed immoral, and the use of the military considered nefarious, unless it is used as boy scouts would be.

c. Many Leftists oppose children viewing cartoons, like Bugs Bunny, that depict a stylized violence, not to mention playing with toy guns, war scenarios, or even drawing stick figures portraying violence.



2. A central theme of Leftism is pacifism, largely because no welfare state can afford a strong military. Europeans came to rely on America to fight the world’s evils and even to defend their countries. This means that ‘equality’ trumps morality.

a. That is why Liberal elites are so confused: they venerate a Cuban tyranny with its egalitarian society over a free, decent, and prosperous America that has greater inequality of material wealth.

b. The Right regards pacifism as an accessory to evil.


3. Everything associated with the military is held in disrepute: nationalism, a strong military, honoring the military, referring to military dead as heroes. And even referring to anything as “evil.”

a. Since the end of WWII, the Left has opposed fighting almost any evil. Even when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, the Left opposed military intervention. What could be more moral than opposing Saddam’s take-over of a nation, and considering the strategic importance of the area, and even the fact that the UN supported the use of the military…still, two-thirds of the House Democrats, and 46 of 56 Democrat Senators voted against the war.

b. Pacifism, the antithesis of nationalism, is a major attraction of both the United Nations and the World Court, both venerated by the Left. These vaunted institutions are opposed to all nationalism, except, of course, Palestinian.



4. The generalization of pacifism leads to the Left’s view of nationalism, and then to contempt for the idea of American exceptionalism, of an America which is prepared to use force to fight what it deems as evil, an affirmation of traditional Judeo-Christian values which include support for the death penalty.



5. What is, then, the tenet that separates the Left from the Right, the Liberal from the conservative? It is simply this: by nature, is man basically good? The Leftist subscribes to the idea that a) man is, by his nature, basically good; b) the ‘Nobel Savage’ of Rousseau; c) given the correct government and laws, society can establish Utopia here, on this Earth, and now. Based on this doctrine, pacifism is logical. As is nuclear disarmament.

a. A distinguishing characteristic of Liberals and Leftists is an aversion to recognizing or acknowledging evil and its permutations, i.e., communism. On another level, it explains the Left’s dislike for capitalism, a system which produces winners and losers, a painful fact that the Left would rather not see.

b. Pacifism is the proclivity to appease evil and ignore the sad facts of life. It is a form of wishful thinking.



6. The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good, in the sense of altruistic. Personal aggrandizement is a very strong element in human nature, and, therefore, there must be checks and balances, and these may include force, and, in fact, wars.

a. The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience.

b. The Bible cites God Himself as declaring that the “will of man’s heart is evil from his youth” (Genesis 8:21).
Largely covered in "Still The Best Hope," Prager

Cool story bro

 

[Two Thumbs]

OWS is as pacifist as the tea party is.

That's a blatant lie.

Not even a good one, since there's been more arrest for the pee party than

well

Has any TP been arrested?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

OWS is as pacifist as the tea party is.

That's a blatant lie.

Not even a good one, since there's been more arrest for the pee party than

well

Has any TP been arrested?

Tea Party member arrested on gun charge at NY airport


Lexington Police Serving Former Rand Paul Volunteer With Criminal Summons



Top Tea Party organizer arrested for soliciting prostitute


Tea Party leader arrested on piracy charges


Former Tea Party spokesman Michael Kobulnicky arrested in sex assault case

 

[Two Thumbs]

OWS is as pacifist as the tea party is.

That's a blatant lie.

Not even a good one, since there's been more arrest for the pee party than

well

Has any TP been arrested?

Tea Party member arrested on gun charge at NY airport


Lexington Police Serving Former Rand Paul Volunteer With Criminal Summons



Top Tea Party organizer arrested for soliciting prostitute


Tea Party leader arrested on piracy charges


Former Tea Party spokesman Michael Kobulnicky arrested in sex assault case

so no one was arrested while at a rally when it actually counts.

thanks, you actually proved my point.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

That's a blatant lie.

Not even a good one, since there's been more arrest for the pee party than

well

Has any TP been arrested?

Tea Party member arrested on gun charge at NY airport


Lexington Police Serving Former Rand Paul Volunteer With Criminal Summons



Top Tea Party organizer arrested for soliciting prostitute


Tea Party leader arrested on piracy charges


Former Tea Party spokesman Michael Kobulnicky arrested in sex assault case

so no one was arrested while at a rally when it actually counts.

thanks, you actually proved my point.

You mean I can stomp on a woman's head at a rally, and as long as they don't arrest me AT the rally - it doesn't count?


Cool!

I need to go up to Mississippi and straighten things out, I was arrested once there for pot. But as I just lerned from you, it wasn't at a rally so it doesn't count. They apparently weren't informed of that in Mississippi.

I'm not sure what your point is, but the evidence would suggesting tea party members are a bunch of violent sex offending air saftey violating pirates.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Tea Party member arrested on gun charge at NY airport


Lexington Police Serving Former Rand Paul Volunteer With Criminal Summons



Top Tea Party organizer arrested for soliciting prostitute


Tea Party leader arrested on piracy charges


Former Tea Party spokesman Michael Kobulnicky arrested in sex assault case

so no one was arrested while at a rally when it actually counts.

thanks, you actually proved my point.

You mean I can stomp on a woman's head at a rally, and as long as they don't arrest me AT the rally - it doesn't count?


Cool!

I need to go up to Mississippi and straighten things out, I was arrested once there for pot. But as I just lerned from you, it wasn't at a rally so it doesn't count. They apparently weren't informed of that in Mississippi.

I'm not sure what your point is, but the evidence would suggesting tea party members are a bunch of violent sex offending air saftey violating pirates.

Hey, I did forget about the single incidence of violence at a TP rally.

sorry, it's been YEARS since that occurred and pee partiers got locked up just a few weeks ago.


Idiot, a few arrest of a few members does not make the TP as violent or as criminal as the PP.

If you were an adult, that could do simple math, you'd see that.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Only a rightwing nut could make the desire for peace look like a character flaw.

Clear differences in meaning are hardly, it seems, in your ken.


"desire for peace" is very different from avoiding confronting evil.




War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

John Stuart Mill

 

[initforme]

I believe in a strong military. I also strongly believe at this time there needs to be some major cuts in the military and that it has more than enough people serving in it. In these financial times, not even the military should be spared of being examined and massively cut in spots where there is waste and excess. I feel that defense contractors are making out like bandits at our expense. If that makes me unpatriotic then please send me the T shirt saying NO PATRIOT and I will wear it proudly.

 

[Old Rocks]

One of my Left-wing buddies posted this in a recent thread:
"War and violence is fine with wingnuts so long as they don't have to fight it. Killing is fine and justified because you are scared. Hypocrite thy name is right wing conservative apologist for murder and death."

I thought the idea worthy of a deeper analysis....


1. Following WWI, and reaching an apex during the Vietnam War, the Left has generally been hostile to anything having to do with war, often embracing pacifism. The bumper-sticker “War is Not the Answer” expresses a nearly universal Left-wing view.

a. The Left believes that just about every conflict can be settled through negotiations, that war solves nothing, and that American expenditures on defense are merely a sign of militarism, imperialism, and the insatiable appetite of the “military-industrial complex.”

b. In fact, violence is deemed immoral, and the use of the military considered nefarious, unless it is used as boy scouts would be.

c. Many Leftists oppose children viewing cartoons, like Bugs Bunny, that depict a stylized violence, not to mention playing with toy guns, war scenarios, or even drawing stick figures portraying violence.



2. A central theme of Leftism is pacifism, largely because no welfare state can afford a strong military. Europeans came to rely on America to fight the world’s evils and even to defend their countries. This means that ‘equality’ trumps morality.

a. That is why Liberal elites are so confused: they venerate a Cuban tyranny with its egalitarian society over a free, decent, and prosperous America that has greater inequality of material wealth.

b. The Right regards pacifism as an accessory to evil.


3. Everything associated with the military is held in disrepute: nationalism, a strong military, honoring the military, referring to military dead as heroes. And even referring to anything as “evil.”

a. Since the end of WWII, the Left has opposed fighting almost any evil. Even when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, the Left opposed military intervention. What could be more moral than opposing Saddam’s take-over of a nation, and considering the strategic importance of the area, and even the fact that the UN supported the use of the military…still, two-thirds of the House Democrats, and 46 of 56 Democrat Senators voted against the war.

b. Pacifism, the antithesis of nationalism, is a major attraction of both the United Nations and the World Court, both venerated by the Left. These vaunted institutions are opposed to all nationalism, except, of course, Palestinian.



4. The generalization of pacifism leads to the Left’s view of nationalism, and then to contempt for the idea of American exceptionalism, of an America which is prepared to use force to fight what it deems as evil, an affirmation of traditional Judeo-Christian values which include support for the death penalty.



5. What is, then, the tenet that separates the Left from the Right, the Liberal from the conservative? It is simply this: by nature, is man basically good? The Leftist subscribes to the idea that a) man is, by his nature, basically good; b) the ‘Nobel Savage’ of Rousseau; c) given the correct government and laws, society can establish Utopia here, on this Earth, and now. Based on this doctrine, pacifism is logical. As is nuclear disarmament.

a. A distinguishing characteristic of Liberals and Leftists is an aversion to recognizing or acknowledging evil and its permutations, i.e., communism. On another level, it explains the Left’s dislike for capitalism, a system which produces winners and losers, a painful fact that the Left would rather not see.

b. Pacifism is the proclivity to appease evil and ignore the sad facts of life. It is a form of wishful thinking.



6. The Right understands that man’s nature, while not inherently evil, is not good, in the sense of altruistic. Personal aggrandizement is a very strong element in human nature, and, therefore, there must be checks and balances, and these may include force, and, in fact, wars.

a. The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience.

b. The Bible cites God Himself as declaring that the “will of man’s heart is evil from his youth” (Genesis 8:21).
Largely covered in "Still The Best Hope," Prager

Sure, PC, sure. And Bush let Bin Laden go for seven years out of the kindness of his heart?

I have a dd214 that states Honorable. And I can and have used violence when neccessary. But I do not glory in it. And I don't like the idea of people using it when it is not neccessary. You 'Conservatives' seem to think that there is some kind of glory in violence and killing. So many of you here state you are just itching to use it against your fellow Americans for one reason or another.

The present right glorifies the philosophy of an insane woman, Rand, that hero worshipped a child murderer.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Finding fault with pacifism. I guess that includes Quakers, Buddhists, Gandhi, MLK, Mother Teresa, HH the Dalai Lama. It's possible to find fault with non-violence and NV heroes.