Ozone Depletion NOT MAN caused!

[Old Rocks]

Unsupported opinion is indictutive of a weak mind afraid to search for real information. The links I trotted out just happened to be from real scientists, not the faux ones we have on this board.

 

[Old Rocks]

Old Crock, I did not read your links, did you win the argument.

mdn, they were from real scientific sources. Do you honestly think that you are capable of understanding them?

 

[westwall]

At least that is what this group of scientists say. Evidently there is far more evidence to support the theory that Cosmic Rays are the actual culprit. Don't tell Chris


http://www.science.uwaterloo.ca/~qblu/Lu-2009PRL.pdf

You are an oil industry troll.

All your posts are about global warming or the oil industry.

I checked your profile and your stats.

You're a Goldman Sachs, rape the people troll...so there!

 

[westwall]

Unsupported opinion is indictutive of a weak mind afraid to search for real information. The links I trotted out just happened to be from real scientists, not the faux ones we have on this board.

Uhhhh so was the link I provided doofus! Yours are however, old.

 

[mdn2000]

Old Crock, I did not read your links, did you win the argument.

mdn, they were from real scientific sources. Do you honestly think that you are capable of understanding them?

Thats why I asked if you won, dumbass.

 

[Old Rocks]

Unsupported opinion is indictutive of a weak mind afraid to search for real information. The links I trotted out just happened to be from real scientists, not the faux ones we have on this board.

Uhhhh so was the link I provided doofus! Yours are however, old.

Getting senile, Walleyes? Note that the article refers to the one that you posted in past tense.

And there was no major decrease in the ozone in 2009.


Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer? - physicsworld.com
Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer?
Mar 26, 2009 1 comment


New data gathered from satellites and ground-based stations support the idea that much of the destruction of Antarctic ozone involves the action of cosmic rays, says a physicist in Canada. This goes against the widely-accepted notion that the ozone layer — which shields Earth from harmful ultraviolet radiation — is depleted via the action of direct sunlight.

Qing-Bin Lu of the University of Waterloo also predicts, given the timing of the 11–year cosmic-ray cycle, that the ozone hole will be particularly large in 2008–09 and 2019–2020 (Phys Rev Lett 102 118501 ).

 

[mdn2000]

Unsupported opinion is indictutive of a weak mind afraid to search for real information. The links I trotted out just happened to be from real scientists, not the faux ones we have on this board.

Uhhhh so was the link I provided doofus! Yours are however, old.

Getting senile, Walleyes? Note that the article refers to the one that you posted in past tense.

And there was no major decrease in the ozone in 2009.


Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer? - physicsworld.com
Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer?
Mar 26, 2009 1 comment


New data gathered from satellites and ground-based stations support the idea that much of the destruction of Antarctic ozone involves the action of cosmic rays, says a physicist in Canada. This goes against the widely-accepted notion that the ozone layer — which shields Earth from harmful ultraviolet radiation — is depleted via the action of direct sunlight.

Qing-Bin Lu of the University of Waterloo also predicts, given the timing of the 11–year cosmic-ray cycle, that the ozone hole will be particularly large in 2008–09 and 2019–2020 (Phys Rev Lett 102 118501 ).

Tell Flash Gordon, he will know what to do about cosmic-rays.

 

[Intense]

Unsupported opinion is indictutive of a weak mind afraid to search for real information. The links I trotted out just happened to be from real scientists, not the faux ones we have on this board.

Uhhhh so was the link I provided doofus! Yours are however, old.

Getting senile, Walleyes? Note that the article refers to the one that you posted in past tense.

And there was no major decrease in the ozone in 2009.


Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer? - physicsworld.com
Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer?
Mar 26, 2009 1 comment


New data gathered from satellites and ground-based stations support the idea that much of the destruction of Antarctic ozone involves the action of cosmic rays, says a physicist in Canada. This goes against the widely-accepted notion that the ozone layer — which shields Earth from harmful ultraviolet radiation — is depleted via the action of direct sunlight.

Qing-Bin Lu of the University of Waterloo also predicts, given the timing of the 11–year cosmic-ray cycle, that the ozone hole will be particularly large in 2008–09 and 2019–2020 (Phys Rev Lett 102 118501 ).

From Your Link.


D.MacDonald08
Mar 29, 2009 10:23 PM
United States
Dr. Neil Harris’s comments look very strange.

No. 1: Harris argues that there is no need for the cosmic ray mechanism because the sunlight induced photochemistry is sufficient to explain the observed ozone hole. This seems to contradict what he said earlier, quoted in a news article published in Nature, "Chemists poke holes in ozone theory", Nature 449, 382-383 (2007):

"This must have far-reaching consequences," Rex says. "If the measurements are correct, we can basically no longer say we understand how ozone holes come into being."... The result was a shock: at least 60% of ozone destruction at the poles seems to be due to an unknown mechanism, Rex told a meeting of stratosphere researchers in Bremen, Germany, last week. ... "Our understanding of chloride chemistry has really been blown apart," says John Crowley, an ozone researcher at the Max Planck Institute of Chemistry in Mainz, Germany. "Until recently everything looked like it fitted nicely," agrees Neil Harris, an atmosphere scientist who heads the European Ozone Research Coordinating Unit at the University of Cambridge, UK. "Now suddenly it’s like a plank has been pulled out of a bridge."

No. 2: It is also quite difficult to understand Dr. Harris’ comment "In any case, Lu is wrong to compare cosmic ray intensity against total ozone because measurements of the latter depend on the movement of ozone around the atmosphere as well as the actual disappearance of ozone". Total (column) ozone data from NASA satellites are daily released to the public during the (Antarctic) ozone hole season ( ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa… ), and time series of total ozone in the polar hole has been reported by other atmospheric scientists in the literature.

What Lu found in his recent article published in Physical Review Letters is the time correlation between cosmic ray intensity and total ozone in the polar ozone hole. I don’t see there is any problem with the data presented in Lu’s article. Perhaps, Lu should have included the 2008 data in the figures to compare with his prediction. But no 2008 data could be seen in his article.


Do cosmic rays destroy the ozone layer? - physicsworld.com

 

[Intense]

From Your Link

NASA
Ozone Hole Watch Images, data, and information, updated daily


Ozone Hole Watch

 

[Intense]

From July 14 to 16, 2000, the surface of the sun exploded. Huge, bright flares spewed out into space like powerful fountains colorfully lit from beneath. Within a few hours, the solar storm bombarded Earth with a shower of positively-charged hydrogen atoms, called protons, causing scientific and communications satellites to short-circuit. Through a series of chemical reactions in our atmosphere, the protons drastically diminished the upper-most areas of the ozone layer, a protective blanket mostly in the stratosphere that blocks life-threatening ultraviolet radiation from reaching the Earth. This shower of protons, known by solar science insiders as the Bastille Day event, was the third largest of its kind in the last 30 years.

For more information, movies, and high-resolution images visit ISTP Sun-Earth Connection Event, July 14–16, 2000, and Hot Shots from SOHO, July 14, 2000.

Atmospheric scientist Charles Jackman and a team of researchers from NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center and Hampton University in Virginia recognized a rare opportunity to gather further proof that solar storms destroy ozone. They already knew that when protons bombard the upper atmosphere, they break up molecules of gases like nitrogen and water vapor. Once freed, those products readily react with ozone molecules and reduce the ozone layer. So, Jackman and his colleagues recalled specific Northern Hemisphere atmospheric data from NASA and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) satellites that continuously monitor the composition of gases and molecules that surround our planet.

Their findings, published in the August 1, 2001, issue of Geophysical Research Letters, show that less than one percent of total atmospheric ozone in the Northern Hemisphere can be quickly reduced by one of these events. “It is an indication of the power of the sun to actually affect the atmosphere in a sudden, cataclysmic way,” Jackman says. While the results do not show a significant impact on human health, especially considering that most of the ozone loss documented in this study occurs over the northern polar region, they are important scientifically. The study gives detailed and quantified knowledge of how a solar storm affects upper-level ozone. As scientists race to better understand humankind’s role in ozone loss, they must first be able to tease out the natural causes.

A Violent Sun Affects the Earth's Ozone : Feature Articles

 

[Chris]

At least that is what this group of scientists say. Evidently there is far more evidence to support the theory that Cosmic Rays are the actual culprit. Don't tell Chris


http://www.science.uwaterloo.ca/~qblu/Lu-2009PRL.pdf

You are an oil industry troll.

All your posts are about global warming or the oil industry.

I checked your profile and your stats.

You're a Goldman Sachs, rape the people troll...so there!

I wish.

You work for the oil industry.

 

[DiveCon]

You are an oil industry troll.

All your posts are about global warming or the oil industry.

I checked your profile and your stats.

You're a Goldman Sachs, rape the people troll...so there!

I wish.

You work for the oil industry.

prove it

 

[Old Rocks]

From Your Link

NASA
Ozone Hole Watch Images, data, and information, updated daily


Ozone Hole Watch

Thank you. If you go to that site and look at the bottom bar graph, you will see there was no significant destruction of ozone in 2008 and 2009, as predicted. Apparently the CR effect is much less significant than the affect of the CFCs.

Ozone Hole Watch

 

[Old Rocks]

From July 14 to 16, 2000, the surface of the sun exploded. Huge, bright flares spewed out into space like powerful fountains colorfully lit from beneath. Within a few hours, the solar storm bombarded Earth with a shower of positively-charged hydrogen atoms, called protons, causing scientific and communications satellites to short-circuit. Through a series of chemical reactions in our atmosphere, the protons drastically diminished the upper-most areas of the ozone layer, a protective blanket mostly in the stratosphere that blocks life-threatening ultraviolet radiation from reaching the Earth. This shower of protons, known by solar science insiders as the Bastille Day event, was the third largest of its kind in the last 30 years.

For more information, movies, and high-resolution images visit ISTP Sun-Earth Connection Event, July 14–16, 2000, and Hot Shots from SOHO, July 14, 2000.

Atmospheric scientist Charles Jackman and a team of researchers from NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center and Hampton University in Virginia recognized a rare opportunity to gather further proof that solar storms destroy ozone. They already knew that when protons bombard the upper atmosphere, they break up molecules of gases like nitrogen and water vapor. Once freed, those products readily react with ozone molecules and reduce the ozone layer. So, Jackman and his colleagues recalled specific Northern Hemisphere atmospheric data from NASA and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) satellites that continuously monitor the composition of gases and molecules that surround our planet.

Their findings, published in the August 1, 2001, issue of Geophysical Research Letters, show that less than one percent of total atmospheric ozone in the Northern Hemisphere can be quickly reduced by one of these events. “It is an indication of the power of the sun to actually affect the atmosphere in a sudden, cataclysmic way,” Jackman says. While the results do not show a significant impact on human health, especially considering that most of the ozone loss documented in this study occurs over the northern polar region, they are important scientifically. The study gives detailed and quantified knowledge of how a solar storm affects upper-level ozone. As scientists race to better understand humankind’s role in ozone loss, they must first be able to tease out the natural causes.

A Violent Sun Affects the Earth's Ozone : Feature Articles

Now if you go to your ealier site, you can see from the bottom bar graph again, the minimums for the ozone, that the CFCs have reduced the minimums from the pre-1980 levels from 227 to a low of 92. That is over 50% for a bad year like 1994, while the damage from the solar flare was less than 1%. Seems a significant differance in the magnitude of effects.

http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/

 

[Intense]

I think we need more research. We need to learn how to follow the truth where it leads us. My position is not about criticizing what we have done, or where we are, but understand the matter better, and should we trip over a solution in the process, all the better. There is new and valuable information here.

 

[westwall]

You are an oil industry troll.

All your posts are about global warming or the oil industry.

I checked your profile and your stats.

You're a Goldman Sachs, rape the people troll...so there!

I wish.

You work for the oil industry.

I did for two years over 25 years ago. Couldn't stand corporate life and have been self employed ever since. What's your excuse for supporting legislation that benefits "investors" at the expense of everyone else to the point of poverty? So go right ahead and rape the people.

I won't.

 

[Toronado3800]

Atomic chlorine, Cl, and Chlorine Monoxide, ClO break down ozone in labs, right? Is this disputed?

If it is wrong then we can go spitting CFCs into the wind again.

If it is right why would lazy ppl want to liberally experiment with the world I am leaving to my child. Conservative careful me isn't going to help any cosmic rays destroy his ozone layer with my laziness.

 

[Old Rocks]

A twenty year study that culminated in a Nobel Prize in Chemistry seems to be a pretty good indicator that these people had something right.

NOBEL PRIZE TO OZONE RESEARCHERS

STOCKHOLM, Sweden- Three noted chemistry researchers have been awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for atmospheric studies which led to an understanding of how the ozone layer forms and decomposes. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences praised the researchers' contribution "to our salvation from a global environmental problem that could have catastrophic consequences."

The one million dollar prize will be shared by F. Sherwood Rowland, Bren Professor of Chemistry, UC Irvine; Mario Molina, who currently is a member of the Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology; and Paul Crutzen, a professor at Max-Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany and adjunct professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego.

The award culminates 20 years of study on the ozone layer by the researchers. The three winners of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry are the first ever to receive the award for atmospheric chemistry or environmental science.

 

[westwall]

A twenty year study that culminated in a Nobel Prize in Chemistry seems to be a pretty good indicator that these people had something right.

NOBEL PRIZE TO OZONE RESEARCHERS

STOCKHOLM, Sweden- Three noted chemistry researchers have been awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for atmospheric studies which led to an understanding of how the ozone layer forms and decomposes. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences praised the researchers' contribution "to our salvation from a global environmental problem that could have catastrophic consequences."

The one million dollar prize will be shared by F. Sherwood Rowland, Bren Professor of Chemistry, UC Irvine; Mario Molina, who currently is a member of the Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology; and Paul Crutzen, a professor at Max-Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany and adjunct professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego.

The award culminates 20 years of study on the ozone layer by the researchers. The three winners of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry are the first ever to receive the award for atmospheric chemistry or environmental science.

And this is 15 years old. How is it relevant to the article I posted?

 

[Chris]

A twenty year study that culminated in a Nobel Prize in Chemistry seems to be a pretty good indicator that these people had something right.

NOBEL PRIZE TO OZONE RESEARCHERS

STOCKHOLM, Sweden- Three noted chemistry researchers have been awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for atmospheric studies which led to an understanding of how the ozone layer forms and decomposes. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences praised the researchers' contribution "to our salvation from a global environmental problem that could have catastrophic consequences."

The one million dollar prize will be shared by F. Sherwood Rowland, Bren Professor of Chemistry, UC Irvine; Mario Molina, who currently is a member of the Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at Massachusetts Institute of Technology; and Paul Crutzen, a professor at Max-Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany and adjunct professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography at UC San Diego.

The award culminates 20 years of study on the ozone layer by the researchers. The three winners of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry are the first ever to receive the award for atmospheric chemistry or environmental science.

And this is 15 years old. How is it relevant to the article I posted?

Sorry, Westwall you've been outed.

You work for the oil industry. For those who are interested check out Westwall's personal profile and statistics on this board. Every thread he has started has been about the oil industry or an attack on global warming.

Begone troll!