Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith

[pbel]

As a ME poster for over ten years, I have prayed for peace in the ME to no avail. I thought for sure that Oslo was for sure going to happen.. I couldn't believe my Eyes, Arafat and Israeli PM were shaking hands, how could it fail?

As often happens to visionaries and man of peace, Rabin, was shot in the back and murdered by a right wing Zionist like the ones that rule Israel today...Because of that act, peace eludes us because the Israeli right would prefer war than give up an inch of "the land of (Eretz) Israel" even if it chanced its own destruction...

It's now clear: the Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith | Avi Shlaim | Comment is free | The Guardian

Shimon Peres, the Israeli foreign minister, signs the Oslo accords at the White House on 13 September 1993. Onlookers include Israel's PM, Yitzhak Rabin; Bill Clinton; and the PLO's Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. Photograph: J David AKE/AFP


Exactly 20 years have passed since the Oslo accords were signed on the White House lawn. For all their shortcomings and ambiguities, the accords constituted a historic breakthrough in the century-old conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. It was the first peace agreement between the two principal parties to the conflict: Israelis and Palestinians.

The accords represented real progress on three fronts: the Palestine Liberation Organisation recognised the state of Israel; Israel recognised the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people; and both sides agreed to resolve their outstanding differences by peaceful means. Mutual recognition replaced mutual rejection. In short, this promised at least the beginning of a reconciliation between two bitterly antagonistic national movements. And the hesitant handshake between Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat clinched the historic compromise.

Critical to the architecture of Oslo was the notion of gradualism. The text did not address any of the key issues in this dispute: Jerusalem; the right of return of 1948 refugees; the status of Jewish settlements built on occupied Palestinian land; or the borders of the Palestinian entity. All these "permanent status" issues were deferred for negotiations towards the end of the five-year transition period. Basically, this was a modest experiment in Palestinian self-government, starting with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho.

 

[Lipush]

How did Oslo agreement help Israel?

It only brought Israel victims and sorrow.

 

[abu afak]

As a ME poster for over ten years, I have prayed for peace in the ME to no avail. I thought for sure that Oslo was for sure going to happen.. I couldn't believe my Eyes, Arafat and Israeli PM were shaking hands, how could it fail?

As often happens to visionaries and man of peace, Rabin, was shot in the back and murdered by a right wing Zionist like the ones that rule Israel today...Because of that act, peace eludes us because the Israeli right would prefer war than give up an inch of "the land of (Eretz) Israel" even if it chanced its own destruction...

You don't pray for Anything except Israel's end. Clearly.
What IS your solution? Mine below.

It's now clear: the Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith | Avi Shlaim | Comment is free | The Guardian

Left Wing Revisionist Shlaim in the most anti-Israel Daily in the Western world is not exactly balanced and Not the way to peace.
If you've been posting on this for "10 years" you would be aware of that.

Shimon Peres, the Israeli foreign minister, signs the Oslo accords at the White House on 13 September 1993. Onlookers include Israel's PM, Yitzhak Rabin; Bill Clinton; and the PLO's Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. Photograph: J David AKE/AFP

Exactly 20 years have passed since the Oslo accords were signed on the White House lawn. For all their shortcomings and ambiguities, the accords constituted a historic breakthrough in the century-old conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. It was the first peace agreement between the two principal parties to the conflict: Israelis and Palestinians. The accords represented real progress on three fronts: the Palestine Liberation Organisation recognised the state of Israel; Israel recognised the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people; and both sides agreed to resolve their outstanding differences by peaceful means. Mutual recognition replaced mutual rejection. In short, this promised at least the beginning of a reconciliation between two bitterly antagonistic national movements. And the hesitant handshake between Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat clinched the historic compromise. Critical to the architecture of Oslo was the notion of gradualism. The text did not address any of the key issues in this dispute: Jerusalem; the right of return of 1948 refugees; the status of Jewish settlements built on occupied Palestinian land; or the borders of the Palestinian entity. All these "permanent status" issues were deferred for negotiations towards the end of the five-year transition period. Basically, this was a modest experiment in Palestinian self-government, starting with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho.

Clinton rightly Blamed the Palestinians/Arafat for the lack of agreement.
Oslo was merely a confidence building get together eclipsed by Camp David and the Palestinian Failure to compromise on anything.

1. I am for a Two state solution as per Resolution 242.
That is with New Negotiated "secure and recognized" boundaries.
2. At this point that would necessarily involve a Land Swap to compensate the Palestinians for settlements that are definitely going to be part of Israel, compensated for or not.
All outposts would be shut and any Israeli presence outside the Green Line ended.
ergo, all new settlements within the Green Line are moot to the eventual agreement.
3. There is NO 'Right of Return' but compensation would be given to the few serious claimants by the sponsors of the agreement. (USA, EU, KSA, etc)
4. Pan Palestinian elections are a precursor. Two governments are not a serious party to negotiation.
5. If Your idea of a solution is withdrawal to the Precise 1967 borders and a full 'Right of Returd', you are NOT for peace.​

You're up.
.

 

[pbel]

As a ME poster for over ten years, I have prayed for peace in the ME to no avail. I thought for sure that Oslo was for sure going to happen.. I couldn't believe my Eyes, Arafat and Israeli PM were shaking hands, how could it fail?

As often happens to visionaries and man of peace, Rabin, was shot in the back and murdered by a right wing Zionist like the ones that rule Israel today...Because of that act, peace eludes us because the Israeli right would prefer war than give up an inch of "the land of (Eretz) Israel" even if it chanced its own destruction...

You don't pray for Anything except Israel's end. Clearly.
What IS your solution? Mine below.

It's now clear: the Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith | Avi Shlaim | Comment is free | The Guardian

Left Wing Revisionist Shlaim in the most anti-Israel Daily in the Western world is not exactly balanced and Not the way to peace.
If you've been posting on this for "10 years" you would be aware of that.

Shimon Peres, the Israeli foreign minister, signs the Oslo accords at the White House on 13 September 1993. Onlookers include Israel's PM, Yitzhak Rabin; Bill Clinton; and the PLO's Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. Photograph: J David AKE/AFP

Exactly 20 years have passed since the Oslo accords were signed on the White House lawn. For all their shortcomings and ambiguities, the accords constituted a historic breakthrough in the century-old conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. It was the first peace agreement between the two principal parties to the conflict: Israelis and Palestinians. The accords represented real progress on three fronts: the Palestine Liberation Organisation recognised the state of Israel; Israel recognised the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people; and both sides agreed to resolve their outstanding differences by peaceful means. Mutual recognition replaced mutual rejection. In short, this promised at least the beginning of a reconciliation between two bitterly antagonistic national movements. And the hesitant handshake between Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat clinched the historic compromise. Critical to the architecture of Oslo was the notion of gradualism. The text did not address any of the key issues in this dispute: Jerusalem; the right of return of 1948 refugees; the status of Jewish settlements built on occupied Palestinian land; or the borders of the Palestinian entity. All these "permanent status" issues were deferred for negotiations towards the end of the five-year transition period. Basically, this was a modest experiment in Palestinian self-government, starting with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho.

Clinton rightly Blamed the Palestinians/Arafat for the lack of agreement.
Oslo was merely a confidence building get together eclipsed by Camp David and the Palestinian Failure to compromise on anything.

1. I am for a Two state solution as per Resolution 242.
That is with New Negotiated "secure and recognized" boundaries.
2. At this point that would necessarily involve a Land Swap to compensate the Palestinians for settlements that are definitely going to be part of Israel, compensated for or not.
All outposts would be shut and any Israeli presence outside the Green Line ended.
ergo, all new settlements within the Green Line are moot to the eventual agreement.
3. There is NO 'Right of Return' but compensation would be given to the few serious claimants by the sponsors of the agreement. (USA, EU, KSA, etc)
4. Pan Palestinian elections are a precursor. Two governments are not a serious party to negotiation.
5. If Your idea of a solution is withdrawal to the Precise 1967 borders and a full 'Right of Returd', you are NOT for peace.​

You're up.
.

Like I have said on many occasions your words seethe with hate: "Right of Returd" is exactly what you preach, peace for negotiations under the Israeli Boot...Abbas is too smart for you deficient right wing wackos...He knows to wait it out until the UN promotes a Palestinian State from non-member status to full to the 67 borders with the US abstaining.

Abbas will keep the peace and wait, and Hamas will continue to nip and tug...

The right is no match when it comes to chess.

 

[toastman]

Right of return is a pipe dream. It's just not gonna happen and with very good reasons.

 

[abu afak]

Like I have said on many occasions your words seethe with hate "Right of Returd" is exactly what you preach, peace for negotiations under the Israeli Boot...Abbas is too smart for you deficient right wing wackos...He knows to wait it out until the UN promotes a Palestinian State from non-member status to full to the 67 borders with the US abstaining.

Abbas will keep the peace and wait, and Hamas will continue to nip and tug...

The right is no match when it comes to chess.

You're LYING again goofy.
You FAILED To show Any hate when last challenged. ZERO. Not a single past post/sentence of mine.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/312800-future-of-palestine.html#post7829298

Worse, and despite 10 claimed years of posting in ME sections... You don't even have a decent proposed solution! ! !

That's TWO FAILED Basic Challenges.
Your posts are Hateful FRAUD, you can't post anything of substance.
`

 

[pbel]

Right of return is a pipe dream. It's just not gonna happen and with very good reasons.

I agree with you...my only addition would be that Compensation be given by both parties that lost anything.

 

[pbel]

As a ME poster for over ten years, I have prayed for peace in the ME to no avail. I thought for sure that Oslo was for sure going to happen.. I couldn't believe my Eyes, Arafat and Israeli PM were shaking hands, how could it fail?

As often happens to visionaries and man of peace, Rabin, was shot in the back and murdered by a right wing Zionist like the ones that rule Israel today...Because of that act, peace eludes us because the Israeli right would prefer war than give up an inch of "the land of (Eretz) Israel" even if it chanced its own destruction...

You don't pray for Anything except Israel's end. Clearly.
What IS your solution? Mine below.

It's now clear: the Oslo peace accords were wrecked by Netanyahu's bad faith | Avi Shlaim | Comment is free | The Guardian

Left Wing Revisionist Shlaim in the most anti-Israel Daily in the Western world is not exactly balanced and Not the way to peace.
If you've been posting on this for "10 years" you would be aware of that.

Shimon Peres, the Israeli foreign minister, signs the Oslo accords at the White House on 13 September 1993. Onlookers include Israel's PM, Yitzhak Rabin; Bill Clinton; and the PLO's Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas. Photograph: J David AKE/AFP

Exactly 20 years have passed since the Oslo accords were signed on the White House lawn. For all their shortcomings and ambiguities, the accords constituted a historic breakthrough in the century-old conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. It was the first peace agreement between the two principal parties to the conflict: Israelis and Palestinians. The accords represented real progress on three fronts: the Palestine Liberation Organisation recognised the state of Israel; Israel recognised the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people; and both sides agreed to resolve their outstanding differences by peaceful means. Mutual recognition replaced mutual rejection. In short, this promised at least the beginning of a reconciliation between two bitterly antagonistic national movements. And the hesitant handshake between Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat clinched the historic compromise. Critical to the architecture of Oslo was the notion of gradualism. The text did not address any of the key issues in this dispute: Jerusalem; the right of return of 1948 refugees; the status of Jewish settlements built on occupied Palestinian land; or the borders of the Palestinian entity. All these "permanent status" issues were deferred for negotiations towards the end of the five-year transition period. Basically, this was a modest experiment in Palestinian self-government, starting with the Gaza Strip and the West Bank town of Jericho.

Clinton rightly Blamed the Palestinians/Arafat for the lack of agreement.
Oslo was merely a confidence building get together eclipsed by Camp David and the Palestinian Failure to compromise on anything.

1. I am for a Two state solution as per Resolution 242.
That is with New Negotiated "secure and recognized" boundaries.
2. At this point that would necessarily involve a Land Swap to compensate the Palestinians for settlements that are definitely going to be part of Israel, compensated for or not.
All outposts would be shut and any Israeli presence outside the Green Line ended.
ergo, all new settlements within the Green Line are moot to the eventual agreement.
3. There is NO 'Right of Return' but compensation would be given to the few serious claimants by the sponsors of the agreement. (USA, EU, KSA, etc)
4. Pan Palestinian elections are a precursor. Two governments are not a serious party to negotiation.
5. If Your idea of a solution is withdrawal to the Precise 1967 borders and a full 'Right of Returd', you are NOT for peace.​

You're up.
.

My own solution would be to sign a Palestinian peace acceptable to the ARAB League peace offer recently re-presented...

My-own preference would be integration into a loose Confederation in a shared Jerusalem...and free access to religious sites in both countries.

F Hamas...let them stew in their misery...I have no patience for ass-biting Horseflies.

I have posted this position on these very boards many, many times.

I would then trade and become part and parcel of helping the ME develop first and then democratize...in a slow calculated process.

 

[Hossfly]

Like I have said on many occasions your words seethe with hate "Right of Returd" is exactly what you preach, peace for negotiations under the Israeli Boot...Abbas is too smart for you deficient right wing wackos...He knows to wait it out until the UN promotes a Palestinian State from non-member status to full to the 67 borders with the US abstaining.

Abbas will keep the peace and wait, and Hamas will continue to nip and tug...

The right is no match when it comes to chess.

You're LYING again goofy.
You FAILED To show Any hate when last challenged. ZERO. Not a single past post/sentence of mine.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/312800-future-of-palestine.html#post7829298

Worse, and despite 10 claimed years of posting in ME sections... You don't even have a decent proposed solution! ! !

That's TWO FAILED Basic Challenges.
Your posts are Hateful FRAUD, you can't post anything of substance.
`

Ten years of posting about the Middle East, and nary a word about what was happening in other Middle East countries. Phillip's only focus seems to be on Israel, and innocent people in the other Middle East countries can be murdered right and left, and he wouldn't even blink.

 

[pbel]

Like I have said on many occasions your words seethe with hate "Right of Returd" is exactly what you preach, peace for negotiations under the Israeli Boot...Abbas is too smart for you deficient right wing wackos...He knows to wait it out until the UN promotes a Palestinian State from non-member status to full to the 67 borders with the US abstaining.

Abbas will keep the peace and wait, and Hamas will continue to nip and tug...

The right is no match when it comes to chess.

You're LYING again goofy.
You FAILED To show Any hate when last challenged. ZERO. Not a single past post/sentence of mine.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/312800-future-of-palestine.html#post7829298

Worse, and despite 10 claimed years of posting in ME sections... You don't even have a decent proposed solution! ! !

That's TWO FAILED Basic Challenges.
Your posts are Hateful FRAUD, you can't post anything of substance.
`

Ten years of posting about the Middle East, and nary a word about what was happening in other Middle East countries. Phillip's only focus seems to be on Israel, and innocent people in the other Middle East countries can be murdered right and left, and he wouldn't even blink.

Hoss, you really are a whiner, constantly biting people with your forever wa! wa!! ..."you never talk about ME countries, you say...What don't you get about: This is the ISRAEL/PALISTINE forum, and the monitors instantly move those posts...

Are you really that dense, or do you get paid to annoy posters by Israel? What a waste of money...

 

[Hossfly]

You're LYING again goofy.
You FAILED To show Any hate when last challenged. ZERO. Not a single past post/sentence of mine.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/israel-and-palestine/312800-future-of-palestine.html#post7829298

Worse, and despite 10 claimed years of posting in ME sections... You don't even have a decent proposed solution! ! !

That's TWO FAILED Basic Challenges.
Your posts are Hateful FRAUD, you can't post anything of substance.
`

Ten years of posting about the Middle East, and nary a word about what was happening in other Middle East countries. Phillip's only focus seems to be on Israel, and innocent people in the other Middle East countries can be murdered right and left, and he wouldn't even blink.

Hoss, you really are a whiner, constantly biting people with your forever wa! wa!! ..."you never talk about ME countries, you say...What don't you get about: This is the ISRAEL/PALISTINE forum, and the monitors instantly move those posts...

Are you really that dense, or do you get paid to annoy posters by Israel? What a waste of money...

But I thought Israel and Palestine were part of the ME and their affairs had a direct connection with the other countries. Sorry. My bad, sissified pussy.

 

[Lipush]

Why nobody answered my question?

What was the big idea about Oslo agreements to start with?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why nobody answered my question?

What was the big idea about Oslo agreements to start with?

The Oslo agreements were for the Palestinians to surrender and disarm. The "PA" was created to sub contract the occupation to the Palestinians.

It was (is) great for Israel.

 

[Hossfly]

Why nobody answered my question?

What was the big idea about Oslo agreements to start with?

The Oslo agreements were for the Palestinians to surrender and disarm. The "PA" was created to sub contract the occupation to the Palestinians.

It was (is) great for Israel.

Disarm. Does that mean they did away with their nukes and chemical weapons but were allowed to keep their guns for "defense"? Defense being murder and terrorism. Or as Tinmore sez, "resistance"?

 

[Lipush]

Why nobody answered my question?

What was the big idea about Oslo agreements to start with?

The Oslo agreements were for the Palestinians to surrender and disarm. The "PA" was created to sub contract the occupation to the Palestinians.

It was (is) great for Israel.

It brought Israel 1500 casualties.

I don't see anything 'great' about it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why nobody answered my question?

What was the big idea about Oslo agreements to start with?

The Oslo agreements were for the Palestinians to surrender and disarm. The "PA" was created to sub contract the occupation to the Palestinians.

It was (is) great for Israel.

It brought Israel 1500 casualties.

I don't see anything 'great' about it.

It is the occupation that brought Israel 1500 casualties.

Let's not try to shift the blame, shall we.

 

[docmauser1]

It is the occupation that brought Israel 1500 casualties. Let's not try to shift the blame, shall we.

Typical palistanian excuses, of course.

 

[Lipush]

The Oslo agreements were for the Palestinians to surrender and disarm. The "PA" was created to sub contract the occupation to the Palestinians.

It was (is) great for Israel.

It brought Israel 1500 casualties.

I don't see anything 'great' about it.

It is the occupation that brought Israel 1500 casualties.

Let's not try to shift the blame, shall we.

Occupation of what, exactly?

Those were the Palestinians and Olso agreement causing us 1500 casualties.

Your twisting of reality cannot change the facts.

 

[georgephillip]

From the 2013 Edward Said Lecture: Violence and Dignity:

"Shortly afterwards, Gaza was placed under closure, breaking any connection to the rest of Palestine. That was extended in the framework of the Oslo accords of 1993, which declared that Gaza and the West Bank are an indivisible territorial unity.

"It remains US-Israeli policy to the present.

"Separation of the two regions in violation of the pledges at Oslo is a crucial policy goal: it guarantees that any limited autonomy that might be achieved in the West Bank will have no access to the outside world apart from Jordan, and that is being barred by the systematic takeover of the Jordan Valley.

"Its Palestinian population of 300,000 before 1967 has been reduced steadily to less than 60,000. By now more than three-fourths of the Valley is free of Palestinians in a program that the Israeli press accurately calls 'tihur babiq’a,' cleansing in the Valley.

"Regular expulsions continue, with extreme cruelty.

"We will soon be commemorating the 20th anniversary of the Oslo accords, which were hailed at the time as a historic breakthrough on the path towards resolution of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

"Not hailed universally of course, certainly not by prominent Palestinian figures, among them Raja Shehadah, Palestine’s leading legal specialist, who had been trying in vain for years to block Israel’s violations of international law in the territories and who recognized that the accords were a surrender in the interests of the Tunis-based PLO, which was being marginalized within the territories but now restored to power.

"Another was Edward Said, who saw exactly what was happening and condemned the capitulation at once. Historian Rashid Khalidi, an adviser to Palestinian negotiators, describes the Oslo accords as an 'infernal trap.'

"Still another was Haidar abdul-Shafi, probably the most respected Palestinian within the territories. He headed the Palestinian delegation at the US-run Madrid negotiations.

"Refusing to capitulate to US-Israel demands, he insisted that any agreement must bar illegal Israeli settlement in the territories. The issue was ignored at Oslo, and Abdul-Shafi refused to attend the signing ceremony on the White House lawn, a 'day of awe' as it was described in the US press.

"There were many illusions about Oslo..."

Violence and Dignity: Reflections on the Middle East (2013 Edward Said Lecture)