Open Letter to Democrats

[liebuster]

I'm sure its been up here before but I though it would be good to see again before tomorrow.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZs8k4pJcyk[/ame]

 

[Madeline]

It's a very well done ad, liebuster, but I object to these themes:

* Government is taking our health care away

* TARP was Obama's mess

* Dems did not listen to the people and deserve to lose

* Dems have been taking/handing out bribes

* The nation "needs" a political civil war

* Socialism = communism and both are evil

I wish the GOP-ers or tea baggers would actually tag Obama for shit he really has done wrong, rather than relying on flawed mythology.

But, it is a persuasive piece of advertising.

 

[liebuster]

It's a very well done ad, liebuster, but I object to these themes:

* Government is taking our health care away Obama Administration admits rationing panels exist in ObamaCare | Liberty Scout

* TARP was Obama's mess He voted for it though. congress was also in the hands of dems.
U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote
* Dems did not listen to the people and deserve to loseThe people did not want the Tarp, stimulus, and health care bill. I would say thats not listening
* Dems have been taking/handing out bribes He didn't even talk about the big bribes:http://www.ihatethemedia.com/congressman-jack-kingston-recites-healthcare-bribes-and-kickbacks
* The nation "needs" a political civil warDon't know where it said this. It could have just don't remember.
* Socialism = communism and both are evilSocialism is communism lite. Socialism is an economy manipualted and controlled by the central government. Communism is where the economy is the government. They are closely tied together.
I wish the GOP-ers or tea baggers would actually tag Obama for shit he really has done wrong, rather than relying on flawed mythology.I just did

But, it is a persuasive piece of advertising.

there you go.

 

[Madeline]

liebuster, socialism is not communism-lite. Marxist theory is, men can be conditioned by a government that prizes cooperation to such a degree, this will become their nature and thus, no government whatsoever will be needed. The Planet Earth has never and will never see a "communist" government....it is utter bullshit. Nations such as the fomer Soviet Union were, in fact, fascist dictatorships -- the very opposite of Marxism.

The concept of socialism is no more or less that business must be restrained for the good of the people and that some middle class needs are better met by government than by business. Take a good, hard look at the Gulf, liebuster. That Spill is the failure of socialism you so vehemently advocate for.

As for health care, reasonable people disagree. Many, like myself, want universal coverage provided by the government -- essentially, nationalizing the private health insurance and Big Pharma industries. While universal coverage is not without its problems, it is cheaper and more efficient, and the for-profit system we have now is bankrupting us.

You would like this book....

It's a fictionalized expose' of the Soviet universal coverage health care system, and it was written by a dissident whilst he was in a Gulag. If you want a peek at the potential down-side of universal care, this should do it, in spades.

 

[liebuster]

liebuster, socialism is not communism-lite. Marxist theory is, men can be conditioned by a government that prizes cooperation to such a degree, this will become their nature and thus, no government whatsoever will be needed. The Planet Earth has never and will never see a "communist" government....it is utter bullshit. Nations such as the fomer Soviet Union were, in fact, fascist dictatorships -- the very opposite of Marxism.

The concept of socialism is no more or less that business must be restrained for the good of the people and that some middle class needs are better met by government than by business. Take a good, hard look at the Gulf, liebuster. That Spill is the failure of socialism you so vehemently advocate for.

As for health care, reasonable people disagree. Many, like myself, want universal coverage provided by the government -- essentially, nationalizing the private health insurance and Big Pharma industries. While universal coverage is not without its problems, it is cheaper and more efficient, and the for-profit system we have now is bankrupting us.

You would like this book....

It's a fictionalized expose' of the Soviet universal coverage health care system, and it was written by a dissident whilst he was in a Gulag. If you want a peek at the potential down-side of universal care, this should do it, in spades.

Interesting opinion on marxism/communism. I guess I have always read about "communist" countries with that are utter failures. Cuba comes to mind where it is basically a government run "plantation". I have always known that a required element in communism is that all the people in the "commune" must be willing to work equally for the benifit of their neighbor. That would be easier to do in a more small local community. It usually fails on a large scale due to human nature. Marxism is a utopian idea that will never be achieved due to human nature of shelfisness. I have no problem with socialist or even "communist" ideas on a local level. You have the leaders living down the street from you. YOu will usually have a much smaller corruption problem when the ruling class has their kids going to school with your kids.

I have always viewed socialism as a smaller form of government as compared to communism but the principles are the same. The requirement of working equally for your neighbor at a country wide level. Not as severe with more economic freedom than a communist country but at its heart the same-trying to meet the needs of the "middle class"

I think once you had your "universal health care" you would want the old system back. I have heard stories of people not even able to buy their own procedures in england because its all run by the gov. Its crazy to even think about trying to buy health care services. My father in law spends about a 1/3 of the year in europe for buisness and he always says if he is ever sick over there to get him back home to an American hospital as soon as possible. The problem with Univeral health care is it always leads to rationing. The gov will decide what treatment to get and there is nothing to do about it. At least in this system you have the economic freedom to get what you want as long as your willing to work for it. No it is not perfect but I firmly believe that that is a result from encroaching gov involvement for the past 40 or so years.

I believe in the freedom of the individual to make its own choices. This quote about socialism is what I vehemently disagree with: "business must be restrained for the good of the people". Who are you to tell me what is good for me and what is not???? In the words of Ted Nugent: " I AM A FREE MAN! DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!

ps. Thanks for the book recommendation

 

[Madeline]

Liebuster wrote....

Interesting opinion on marxism/communism. I guess I have always read about "communist" countries with that are utter failures. Cuba comes to mind where it is basically a government run "plantation". I have always known that a required element in communism is that all the people in the "commune" must be willing to work equally for the benifit of their neighbor. That would be easier to do in a more small local community. It usually fails on a large scale due to human nature. Marxism is a utopian idea that will never be achieved due to human nature of shelfisness. I have no problem with socialist or even "communist" ideas on a local level. You have the leaders living down the street from you. YOu will usually have a much smaller corruption problem when the ruling class has their kids going to school with your kids.

I agree, 100%.

I have always viewed socialism as a smaller form of government as compared to communism but the principles are the same. The requirement of working equally for your neighbor at a country wide level. Not as severe with more economic freedom than a communist country but at its heart the same-trying to meet the needs of the "middle class".

No, the principles are totally different. Communism assumes man's basic nature is good and cooperative; socialism assumes man's basic nature is greedy and must be restrained.

I think once you had your "universal health care" you would want the old system back. I have heard stories of people not even able to buy their own procedures in england because its all run by the gov. Its crazy to even think about trying to buy health care services. My father in law spends about a 1/3 of the year in europe for buisness and he always says if he is ever sick over there to get him back home to an American hospital as soon as possible. The problem with Univeral health care is it always leads to rationing. The gov will decide what treatment to get and there is nothing to do about it. At least in this system you have the economic freedom to get what you want as long as your willing to work for it. No it is not perfect but I firmly believe that that is a result from encroaching gov involvement for the past 40 or so years.

Rationing is a feature of universal care, agreed. But by "default", so it the for-profit, private system we have now -- and the private one costs 3xs more. I would rather give everyone adequate care than merely give no care or only emergency care to the rest of us so we can give cadillac care to the wealthy.

I believe in the freedom of the individual to make its own choices. This quote about socialism is what I vehemently disagree with: "business must be restrained for the good of the people". Who are you to tell me what is good for me and what is not???? In the words of Ted Nugent: " I AM A FREE MAN! DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!

ps. Thanks for the book recommendation

Freedom is a belief, not a reality. BP's "freedom" has cost most of the Gulf their occupations, health and social networks. The "freedom" of AIG nearly cost all of us our ability to provide for our families....etc. Think about the Trusts circa 1920's US. Those evil monopolies were strangling the US middle class.

I frankly dun give two fucks about the "freedom" of the Rockefellers and DuPonts. I care about mine and yours.

Hope you like the book...very readable, which amazes me as it was originally written in Russian.