Once Again a Person with a Gun Stopped a Mass Shooter

[2aguy]

The reason this argument of yours never gets traction Flopper is it's clearly obvious that the person fixated on AR variations has NO IDEA of what firearms are truly dangerous. The SKS rifle that I'm "baby-sitting" for a friend in Cali (he can't have it there) is just as lethal. But since it has a wood stock and doesn't LOOK dangerous --- it doesn't get scape-goated. So you're essentially asking for REMOVING at least 27 different brands and styles of semi-auto weapons. And you don't even realize it.

Now -- you cant' stuff an SKS with a wooden stock into a smaller bag. But that's about it.

You mentioned Vegas.. The shooter DESTROYED (burned up) THREE ARs with his bump stock trick. Because the rifle is NOT designed for automatic rates of fire. How many mass shooters are gonna carry 4 ARs around on the ground with everything else they need? It's NOT a military weapon. In fact the BATF REQUIRES that no parts of AR variants are interchangeable with military models.

A semi-auto shotgun with a magazine is an awesome close quarter weapon. Not that hard to reload if you're in a Gun Free Zone with nobody to stop you..

When you REALIZE what you're asking for -- you see why nobody ever bites on your "suggestion" of blaming a single fearful LOOKING rifle.

I'm obviously not a firearms expert although I do own a gun and know how to use. People that know a lot more about firearms and public safety than me can make the decision as to just how much firepower the general public will be allowed, balancing 2nd amendment rights against pubic safety. It was decided long ago that handheld missiles and machine guns were too powerful to put in the hands of the public. As arms makers strive for more and more effective weapons, government needs to excise it's power to regulate ever more power weapons.

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

And even with their police state, the Japanese couldn't keep the Yakuza from using guns and grenades in their infrequent gang wars...the last one was in 2006 and lasted 7 years...

How did they stop the Yakuza from using guns.......? The way we demand that democrats stop gun criminals here....long prison sentences....

http://www.atimes.com/article/japans-gun-control-laws-strict-yakuza-turn-toy-pistols/



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

 

[2aguy]

The reason this argument of yours never gets traction Flopper is it's clearly obvious that the person fixated on AR variations has NO IDEA of what firearms are truly dangerous. The SKS rifle that I'm "baby-sitting" for a friend in Cali (he can't have it there) is just as lethal. But since it has a wood stock and doesn't LOOK dangerous --- it doesn't get scape-goated. So you're essentially asking for REMOVING at least 27 different brands and styles of semi-auto weapons. And you don't even realize it.

Now -- you cant' stuff an SKS with a wooden stock into a smaller bag. But that's about it.

You mentioned Vegas.. The shooter DESTROYED (burned up) THREE ARs with his bump stock trick. Because the rifle is NOT designed for automatic rates of fire. How many mass shooters are gonna carry 4 ARs around on the ground with everything else they need? It's NOT a military weapon. In fact the BATF REQUIRES that no parts of AR variants are interchangeable with military models.

A semi-auto shotgun with a magazine is an awesome close quarter weapon. Not that hard to reload if you're in a Gun Free Zone with nobody to stop you..

When you REALIZE what you're asking for -- you see why nobody ever bites on your "suggestion" of blaming a single fearful LOOKING rifle.

I'm obviously not a firearms expert although I do own a gun and know how to use. People that know a lot more about firearms and public safety than me can make the decision as to just how much firepower the general public will be allowed, balancing 2nd amendment rights against pubic safety. It was decided long ago that handheld missiles and machine guns were too powerful to put in the hands of the public. As arms makers strive for more and more effective weapons, government needs to excise it's power to regulate ever more power weapons.

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

The gun crime rates in those democratic countries are going up....their social welfare states can no longer civilize their young males raised by teenage mothers...and they are importing violent 3rd world males to run their drug gangs....

 

[2aguy]

WE had a very close call a couple of weeks ago here. The community surrounding the School noticed an AR carrying person within 1000 feet of a school. They called the cops. The cops zeroed in and arrested the person. They never gave the person any chances. At the same time, the school went into a lockdown where all the doors were locked, the students were put into class rooms in the center of the buildings and the doors were locked. It wouldn't have done the potential shooter any good to try and enter the school. Even if he had gotten past the first set of doors, the next series of doors would also have been locked as well. This would have slowed the potential shooter down giving the cops the time to take him down. But it never reached that point. The Community handled it so the school didn't have to handle it other than a lockdown. 3 hours later, the students were released to the parents.

You don't need to have armed teachers or guards on the premises. What you need is to train the community to pay attention and train the cops. The resources are already there.

The Sandy Hook shooter used a hammer to break the glass on the doors...and what keeps a mass shooter from attacking the kids as they line up at the start of the day, or when they come out at the end of the day....

You guys don't think, but get all smug when you post....

 

[Flopper]

I'm obviously not a firearms expert although I do own a gun and know how to use. People that know a lot more about firearms and public safety than me can make the decision as to just how much firepower the general public will be allowed, balancing 2nd amendment rights against pubic safety. It was decided long ago that handheld missiles and machine guns were too powerful to put in the hands of the public. As arms makers strive for more and more effective weapons, government needs to excise it's power to regulate ever more power weapons.

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

There is so much misinformation out there. Most of it PRODUCED as propaganda by guys like Bloomberg. The guy that is pushing the TOTALLY false notion that there have been 18 school shootings so far this year. Even Obama repeated this crap last week.

The US is BARELY in the top 20 of firearm homicide rates in the world. And MOST of countries ABOVE us have damn near COMPLETE firearm bans. Almost EVERY central -- south american country is way above our firearm homicide rates.

Japan that you mentioned has always had very very little crime and violence. It's CULTURE -- not firearms. Even their suicide rate is 15 times less than ours. NOT BECAUSE of their laws.. Note the difference below in VIOLENCE and suicide and remember that is CULTURAL. Not always because of law and enforcement.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

I think it's actually 17 school shootings but maybe there has been a new one.
March 20: Lexington Park, Maryland
March 13: Seaside, California
March 8: Mobile, Alabama
March 7: Birmingham, Alabama
March 7: Jackson, Mississippi
March 2: Mount Pleasant, Michigan
February 27: Norfolk, Virginia
February 27: Itta Bena, Mississippi
February 24: Savannah, Georgia
February 14: Parkland, Florida
February 9: Nashville
February 5: Oxon Hill, Maryland
February 1: Los Angeles
January 31: Philadelphia
January 23: Benton, Kentucky
January 22: Italy, Texas
January 20: Winston Salem, North Carolina
2018 school shootings: A list of incidents that resulted in casualties - CNN

 

[Flopper]

I'm obviously not a firearms expert although I do own a gun and know how to use. People that know a lot more about firearms and public safety than me can make the decision as to just how much firepower the general public will be allowed, balancing 2nd amendment rights against pubic safety. It was decided long ago that handheld missiles and machine guns were too powerful to put in the hands of the public. As arms makers strive for more and more effective weapons, government needs to excise it's power to regulate ever more power weapons.

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

And even with their police state, the Japanese couldn't keep the Yakuza from using guns and grenades in their infrequent gang wars...the last one was in 2006 and lasted 7 years...

How did they stop the Yakuza from using guns.......? The way we demand that democrats stop gun criminals here....long prison sentences....

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

Yet the Homicide Rate in Japan stands at .31 per hundred thousand inhabitants compared to the US murder rate of 4.88.

Japan rarely sees more 10 deaths from guns a year compared to the US's 33,000 a year.
Gun Death Rate Rose Again in 2016, C.D.C. Says
Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

 

[flacaltenn]

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

There is so much misinformation out there. Most of it PRODUCED as propaganda by guys like Bloomberg. The guy that is pushing the TOTALLY false notion that there have been 18 school shootings so far this year. Even Obama repeated this crap last week.

The US is BARELY in the top 20 of firearm homicide rates in the world. And MOST of countries ABOVE us have damn near COMPLETE firearm bans. Almost EVERY central -- south american country is way above our firearm homicide rates.

Japan that you mentioned has always had very very little crime and violence. It's CULTURE -- not firearms. Even their suicide rate is 15 times less than ours. NOT BECAUSE of their laws.. Note the difference below in VIOLENCE and suicide and remember that is CULTURAL. Not always because of law and enforcement.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

I think it's actually 17 school shootings but maybe there has been a new one.
March 20: Lexington Park, Maryland
March 13: Seaside, California
March 8: Mobile, Alabama
March 7: Birmingham, Alabama
March 7: Jackson, Mississippi
March 2: Mount Pleasant, Michigan
February 27: Norfolk, Virginia
February 27: Itta Bena, Mississippi
February 24: Savannah, Georgia
February 14: Parkland, Florida
February 9: Nashville
February 5: Oxon Hill, Maryland
February 1: Los Angeles
January 31: Philadelphia
January 23: Benton, Kentucky
January 22: Italy, Texas
January 20: Winston Salem, North Carolina
2018 school shootings: A list of incidents that resulted in casualties - CNN

Where did CNN get it? It's from Bloomberg's phony organization. I'll remember the name later. That list INCLUDES ----

1) Drug deals gone bad in school parking lots at 2AM
2) Accidental discharges within 1/2 mile from the school.
3) Suicides under the bleachers before and after school hours.

I'm not taking anything from CNN's site. But if you check for THEIR SOURCE --- I'll check it out if it is NOT Bloomberg propaganda from EVERYTOWNRESEARCH.org, They LIE and the media and Obama repeat it.


From you CNN site...

The parameters CNN followed in this count are:

• A shooting that involved at least one person being shot (not including the shooter)
• A shooting that occurred on school grounds
• We included grades K through college/university level
• We included gang violence, fights and domestic violence
• We included accidental discharge of a firearm as long as the first two parameters are met

Note -- It's like I said. NOT mass shootings. Most are accidental or suicides or on College campus crime and DOMESTIC VIOLENCE in those places. Some don't even HARM A SINGLE STUDENT. Stop it with phony fake news and sources.

 

[flacaltenn]

The one here in Nashville was GANG related. Single victim. From a drive-by... NOT a "mass school shooting"..

 

[flacaltenn]

The long, shameful list of school shootings in America

Go click on these "mass school shootings" and see for yourself. For my town I got this..

An unidentified man was shot and injured while sitting in his car in a parking lot outside of a dorm. He was taken to a local hospital in critical condition. Tennessee State announced that the victim was not a student at the school, and Nashville Police announced they were investigating the incident.

290 School Shootings In America Since 2013
290 School Shootings In America Since 2013

Go tell Bloomberg and the media that their lying has been exposed and Bloomberg is wasting his money..
Go tell pompous ass "fact-checkers" like Snopes and Obama who repeat these lies that they are doing Putin's work for him.

 

[2aguy]

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

There is so much misinformation out there. Most of it PRODUCED as propaganda by guys like Bloomberg. The guy that is pushing the TOTALLY false notion that there have been 18 school shootings so far this year. Even Obama repeated this crap last week.

The US is BARELY in the top 20 of firearm homicide rates in the world. And MOST of countries ABOVE us have damn near COMPLETE firearm bans. Almost EVERY central -- south american country is way above our firearm homicide rates.

Japan that you mentioned has always had very very little crime and violence. It's CULTURE -- not firearms. Even their suicide rate is 15 times less than ours. NOT BECAUSE of their laws.. Note the difference below in VIOLENCE and suicide and remember that is CULTURAL. Not always because of law and enforcement.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia

I think it's actually 17 school shootings but maybe there has been a new one.
March 20: Lexington Park, Maryland
March 13: Seaside, California
March 8: Mobile, Alabama
March 7: Birmingham, Alabama
March 7: Jackson, Mississippi
March 2: Mount Pleasant, Michigan
February 27: Norfolk, Virginia
February 27: Itta Bena, Mississippi
February 24: Savannah, Georgia
February 14: Parkland, Florida
February 9: Nashville
February 5: Oxon Hill, Maryland
February 1: Los Angeles
January 31: Philadelphia
January 23: Benton, Kentucky
January 22: Italy, Texas
January 20: Winston Salem, North Carolina
2018 school shootings: A list of incidents that resulted in casualties - CNN

Dipshit....the Washington post exposed that list as a lie...they went through the list and one of them was a guy committing suicide in a school parking lot where the school had been closed for 7 months......please...do some basic research before you post...

Analysis | No, there haven’t been 18 school shootings in 2018. That number is flat wrong.

It is a horrifying statistic. And it is wrong.


Everytown has long inflated its total by including incidents of gunfire that are not really school shootings. Take, for example, what it counted as the year’s first: On the afternoon of Jan. 3, a 31-year-old man who had parked outside a Michigan elementary school called police to say he was armed and suicidal. Several hours later, he killed himself. The school, however, had been closed for seven months. There were no teachers. There were no students.

Also listed on the organization’s site is an incident from Jan. 20, when at 1 a.m. a man was shot at a sorority event on the campus of Wake Forest University.

A week later, as a basketball game was being played at a Michigan high school, someone fired several rounds from a gun in the parking lot. No one was injured, and it was past 8 p.m., well after classes had ended for the day, but Everytown still labeled it a school shooting.

 

[2aguy]

How long ago was it that the govt decided how much firepower should be in the hands of ordinary citizens? Was it before or after the Congress wrote in the Marques of Reprisal clause to Constitution and PAID privateers to go after pirates in their "world class" (at the time) battleships?? 8 cannon on a cruiser seems perfectly legit in that context...

And the context has changed quite a bit in last two hundred and fifty years. The primary reason for the second amendment was not to provide citizens the means to overthrow the government but rather to support the militias. The founders believed every able bodied man should be a member of a militia and when invading armies or hoards of Indians attacked, the militias would come to the defense of the people.

Today we look favorable on our armed forces and believe we could not survived without it. In colonial days, they believed just the opposite. Standing armies were abhorrent and were a danger to the freedom of people as well being costly to maintain. It was the militias that would defend the people and for that to happen, our citizen soldier would have to have guns.

To the colonialist a gun meant the musket, an imported item that cost the equivalent of two months pay. Without constant attention its iron rusted, and blacksmiths were ill equipped to repair it. The musket was not efficient for self-defense or hunting. It was not accurate beyond a few hundred feet (it had no sight, and soldiers were instructed not to aim, but fire in volleys. It frequently misfired and was cumbersome to reload, awkward qualities for individual self-defense; by the time you had put ball and powder back in, your foe would be upon you with knife, club or ax. About the only reason for owning a musket in those days was to join others in a militia to fight off attacking Indians or other hostel forces. This explains why only 14% of the men owned muskets and about half of them were not operational.

The founders believe every able bodied man should own a gun because the new nation would be depending on them for defense. To that end, gun ownership was encouraged and protected by the constitution. The context today is totally different.

Spiking the Gun Myth

No...the context is not different......the modern Government of Germany first registered and then confiscated the guns of it's citizens......and then they sent 12 million Germans and other Europeand into gas chambers to be murdered.....the Russian government murdered 25 million people, the Chinese government murdered 70 million people...

The Mexican government has made it impossible for citizens to own guns...and 10s of thousands of Mexican citizens are murdered by the police and soldiers of Mexico, who are the allies of the drug cartels....

Brazil has 60,000 people murdered every year, with extreme gun control laws...as the criminals easily get, and use guns to murder them......

All unarmed and defenseless when their government decided to murder them.....

If anything, it is more important than ever before that the population of a country be armed, in order to keep the government from crossing that line ever again...

You can cherry pick statistics to prove your point. However, I can do same. The UK has adopted some the most restrictive gun control of any European country. Are tens of thousands of people being slaughtered by criminals? Nope, in fact the homicide rate is one fifth that of the US. Japan has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. For most Japanese, owning a gun is all but impossible. The homicide rate in the US is 14 times greater than Japan. The secret to gun control is creating laws without loopholes that are enforced throughout the country.

It is utterly insane that people have to buy guns to protect themselves because the government is not able to control gun ownership. Other democratic countries do it quite effectively while maintaining a higher degree of personal freedom than in the US.

And even with their police state, the Japanese couldn't keep the Yakuza from using guns and grenades in their infrequent gang wars...the last one was in 2006 and lasted 7 years...

How did they stop the Yakuza from using guns.......? The way we demand that democrats stop gun criminals here....long prison sentences....

Japan’s gun control laws so strict the Yakuza turn to toy pistols



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

---

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”

Yet the Homicide Rate in Japan stands at .31 per hundred thousand inhabitants compared to the US murder rate of 4.88.

Japan rarely sees more 10 deaths from guns a year compared to the US's 33,000 a year.
Gun Death Rate Rose Again in 2016, C.D.C. Says
Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

The homicide rate doesn't matter if the criminals get guns easily....the fact that they aren't murdering people with their guns is not due to their gun control laws which obviously failed if they have the guns in the first place......

2nd Amendment supporters want sentencing laws like Japan.....but we want 30 years for actual crimes with guns...rape, robbery and murder...

The huge fucking problem? The democrat party keeps making laws that let violent gun criminals out of jail...that is the problem...not normal, law abiding people owning and carrying guns......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Dr Grump]

So you actually believe that New Zealand would be like the United States, but you made guns illegal, and then guns disappeared. You're telling me that's what you actually believe happened? There were 300 million guns in New Zealand? The owners said aw crap, they turned them in? And the exact same thing would happen in the US?

And you haven't read that and said wow, you're a complete and utter fucking moron yet? Seriously"?

NZ wouldn't have 300 million guns to start with because there are only 4.5 million people. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

Of course it would take time in the US. There is no quick fix. But if you put in restrictions on the types of weapons people are allowed and had proper background checks, eventually, over time, the number of guns on the street would decline, and also those in charge (whether it be the local sheriff or FBI) would have the tools to enforce the current laws.

 

[Dr Grump]

Dr Grump is obviously a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit who isn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate

And Kaz is a moron who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It has worked in NZ and Australia. And parts of the UK. So who is being intellectually dishonest again?

 

[2aguy]

So you actually believe that New Zealand would be like the United States, but you made guns illegal, and then guns disappeared. You're telling me that's what you actually believe happened? There were 300 million guns in New Zealand? The owners said aw crap, they turned them in? And the exact same thing would happen in the US?

And you haven't read that and said wow, you're a complete and utter fucking moron yet? Seriously"?

NZ wouldn't have 300 million guns to start with because there are only 4.5 million people. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

Of course it would take time in the US. There is no quick fix. But if you put in restrictions on the types of weapons people are allowed and had proper background checks, eventually, over time, the number of guns on the street would decline, and also those in charge (whether it be the local sheriff or FBI) would have the tools to enforce the current laws.

We already have proper background checks...the police just aren't enforcing them......and the democrats keep putting violent gun criminals out of jail....so they can keep killing people....

The number of guns isn't the issue.....as more Americans own and carry guns our crime rates have gone down, the issue is democrats who keep letting violent criminals out of jail to repeatedly commit murder...

Of course...you are using New Zealand because their neighbor, Australia, banned and confiscated guns...and their gun crime rate is going up....kind of ruins the point of your argument.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

Dr Grump is obviously a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit who isn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate

And Kaz is a moron who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It has worked in NZ and Australia. And parts of the UK. So who is being intellectually dishonest again?

No...it didn't work in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

 

[kaz]

So you actually believe that New Zealand would be like the United States, but you made guns illegal, and then guns disappeared. You're telling me that's what you actually believe happened? There were 300 million guns in New Zealand? The owners said aw crap, they turned them in? And the exact same thing would happen in the US?

And you haven't read that and said wow, you're a complete and utter fucking moron yet? Seriously"?

NZ wouldn't have 300 million guns to start with because there are only 4.5 million people. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

Of course it would take time in the US. There is no quick fix. But if you put in restrictions on the types of weapons people are allowed and had proper background checks, eventually, over time, the number of guns on the street would decline, and also those in charge (whether it be the local sheriff or FBI) would have the tools to enforce the current laws.

OK, that's your plan to disarm honest citizens. BTW, I already knew how to do that. Now what's your plan for criminals? That's the point of this thing, which you keep running away from.

And address that you're allies with the Democrats who demand we have no open border and endless drugs cross that line because of it

 

[kaz]

Dr Grump is obviously a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit who isn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate

And Kaz is a moron who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It has worked in NZ and Australia. And parts of the UK. So who is being intellectually dishonest again?

You had fewer guns, a different culture, a far more homogeneous population and no open border with a third world country, and I don't know my arse from my elbow, got it.

Now cut the crap, we ALL know how to disarm honest citizens. Stop stating the obvious and move on to disarming the criminals, who are the problem, and you keep hiding from discussing

 

[kaz]

So you actually believe that New Zealand would be like the United States, but you made guns illegal, and then guns disappeared. You're telling me that's what you actually believe happened? There were 300 million guns in New Zealand? The owners said aw crap, they turned them in? And the exact same thing would happen in the US?

And you haven't read that and said wow, you're a complete and utter fucking moron yet? Seriously"?

NZ wouldn't have 300 million guns to start with because there are only 4.5 million people. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

Of course it would take time in the US. There is no quick fix. But if you put in restrictions on the types of weapons people are allowed and had proper background checks, eventually, over time, the number of guns on the street would decline, and also those in charge (whether it be the local sheriff or FBI) would have the tools to enforce the current laws.

We already have proper background checks...the police just aren't enforcing them......and the democrats keep putting violent gun criminals out of jail....so they can keep killing people....

The number of guns isn't the issue.....as more Americans own and carry guns our crime rates have gone down, the issue is democrats who keep letting violent criminals out of jail to repeatedly commit murder...

Of course...you are using New Zealand because their neighbor, Australia, banned and confiscated guns...and their gun crime rate is going up....kind of ruins the point of your argument.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

When Dr Grump goes into another culture and country and condescendingly lectures us, you know he's trying to be a dick already.

He's the Ugly New Zealander ...

 

[kaz]

Dr Grump is obviously a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit who isn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate

And Kaz is a moron who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It has worked in NZ and Australia. And parts of the UK. So who is being intellectually dishonest again?

No...it didn't work in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

What Dr. Grump has is penis envy. America is so much richer and stronger than his that he needs to salvage some manhood. So he acts like this. Rather than discussing an issue, he says pretend we're an Island Nation with 4.5 million white people and a few Maoris and it works for them, so it'll work for a diverse nation of 350 million with an open border to a third world country

 

[2aguy]

Dr Grump is obviously a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit who isn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate

And Kaz is a moron who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It has worked in NZ and Australia. And parts of the UK. So who is being intellectually dishonest again?

No...it didn't work in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
============
The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

What Dr. Grump does is penis envy. America is so much richer and stronger than he is that he needs to salvage some manhood. So he acts like this. Rather than discussing an issue, he says pretend we're an Island Nation with 4.5 million white people and a few Maoris and it works for them, so it'll work for a diverse nation of 350 million with an open border to a third world country

When the New Zealand people are using their money and bodies to protect the world from Russian and Chinese aggression, maybe then he could have something intelligent to say....but considering New Zealand is a backwater country, so far out in the middle of nowhere and the only real thing they contribute to the world are an unpleasant fruit, the kiwi, and locations shot for hobbit movies....they really don't have much to brag on...

 

[Flopper]

Dr Grump is obviously a fundamentally dishonest piece of shit who isn't willing to engage in an intellectually honest debate

And Kaz is a moron who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. It has worked in NZ and Australia. And parts of the UK. So who is being intellectually dishonest again?

No...it didn't work in Australia...

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

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These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

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Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.
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The second part of the series....
Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


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'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

But....military weapons?

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

What Dr. Grump does is penis envy. America is so much richer and stronger than he is that he needs to salvage some manhood. So he acts like this. Rather than discussing an issue, he says pretend we're an Island Nation with 4.5 million white people and a few Maoris and it works for them, so it'll work for a diverse nation of 350 million with an open border to a third world country

When the New Zealand people are using their money and bodies to protect the world from Russian and Chinese aggression, maybe then he could have something intelligent to say....but considering New Zealand is a backwater country, so far out in the middle of nowhere and the only real thing they contribute to the world are an unpleasant fruit, the kiwi, and locations shot for hobbit movies....they really don't have much to brag on...

New Zealand is great place to visit but I wouldn't won't to live there, too cold, internet is not good, but wonderful scenery. There 1.1 million firearms in a population of 5 million. Homicides via guns are very low, about 8 a year compared to the US about 13,000 a year in the US.