On the new ideology of the Republican Party

[C_Clayton_Jones]

On the new ideology of the Republican Party

The ideology is not necessarily new, it’s been right at 30 years since the GOP became hostile to environmental concerns. I remember well James Watt’s (Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior) recommendation with regard to the then new ‘hole’ in the ozone layer: Ray-Bans.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Wry, you kinda open yourself up for attacks because of the way you frame your OP. It's like you're looking for a fight rather than a serious discussion, which is fine if that's what you want.

Far as I know, the official GOP economic plan does not include ending regulations, just reducing them to what is actually needed and makes economic sense. When has Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, or any of the GOP candidates said we should eliminate all regs?

so true actually the GOP is for very strong regulations that encourage capitalism, just not regulations that encourage socialism.

When consumers are free they regulate 1000's of businesses out of business every month. When liberals end competition as they did in health care, for example, no one goes out of business and costs go through the roof and poverty reaches soviet levels.

When the Republican candidates advocate the elimination the EPA it does not seem they are for strong regualations. The 'jobs' bills posted on this message board (15 Reid ignored) want to allow states to regulate what goes into rivers, rivers which extend beyond their borders. Why do you think the Koch Brothers are spending so much money? It's not because they care about the people downstream; why are they behind all the spending on Prop. 2 in Ohio? Not because they care about the American worker.

In the OP I wrote, " I do see compromise on permits and such as a viable and win - win possibility. I acknowledge there are regualtions, fees, fines, permits and inspection which become oppressive.

As for attacks, I ignore the fools and the less dull ones eventually get it. I've yet to read any substantive posts from those on the far right. I do want to see an open and honest debate which is why the OP is provocative.

 

[Flopper]

What work does the EPA do for us?
If companies illegally pollute they can be takne to court to remedy the situation. We don't need an EPA promulgating regulations for that. The spectre of large fines and court costs should keep companies in line. Regulations will not be effective in preventing intentional abuse.

Ecological disasters can cost billions in cleanup and resulting lawsuits, destroy lives, property, and businesses. The purpose of the EPA is not to sue people but rather to prevent environmental disasters such as the Love Canal, Picher, Oklahoma Lead Contamination, and Alabama PCB Poisoning.

It’s not shocking that top business executives are openly supporting EPA regulations. Businesses require certainty and reliability so they can plan ahead and make the proper investments needed now to prosper down the road. Having EPA guidance and certification of compliance provides businesses with important assurance that they are in compliance with the law.

When it comes to the environment, an once of prevention is certainly worth a pound of cure. What you suggest is ridiculous, dealing with environmental problems only after they occur in the courts.

Yes! You have ouitlined the problem exactly. The EPA lives in fear of environmental disasters. To make sure that never happens they will scotch a million decent projects if they even think there might be a suspicion of some environmental damage, no matter how minute.
We do not live in a risk free world. To pretend that gov't can solves problems in advance of their existence is absurd.
THe issue is not the EPA's guidelines. The issue is that the change and increase those guidelines without regard to consequences.

Only a fool would argue that it is better to deal with environmental disasters than to prevent them.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ecological disasters can cost billions in cleanup and resulting lawsuits, destroy lives, property, and businesses. The purpose of the EPA is not to sue people but rather to prevent environmental disasters such as the Love Canal, Picher, Oklahoma Lead Contamination, and Alabama PCB Poisoning.

It’s not shocking that top business executives are openly supporting EPA regulations. Businesses require certainty and reliability so they can plan ahead and make the proper investments needed now to prosper down the road. Having EPA guidance and certification of compliance provides businesses with important assurance that they are in compliance with the law.

When it comes to the environment, an once of prevention is certainly worth a pound of cure. What you suggest is ridiculous, dealing with environmental problems only after they occur in the courts.

Yes! You have ouitlined the problem exactly. The EPA lives in fear of environmental disasters. To make sure that never happens they will scotch a million decent projects if they even think there might be a suspicion of some environmental damage, no matter how minute.
We do not live in a risk free world. To pretend that gov't can solves problems in advance of their existence is absurd.
THe issue is not the EPA's guidelines. The issue is that the change and increase those guidelines without regard to consequences.

Only a fool would argue that it is better to deal with environmental disasters than to prevent them.

So your solution is to shut down all commerce because heaven forbid one act might--might--result is some environmental issue? Really?
Maybe we can prevent all car accidents by mandating a 35mph speed limit.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wry, you kinda open yourself up for attacks because of the way you frame your OP. It's like you're looking for a fight rather than a serious discussion, which is fine if that's what you want.

Far as I know, the official GOP economic plan does not include ending regulations, just reducing them to what is actually needed and makes economic sense. When has Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, or any of the GOP candidates said we should eliminate all regs?

so true actually the GOP is for very strong regulations that encourage capitalism, just not regulations that encourage socialism.

When consumers are free they regulate 1000's of businesses out of business every month. When liberals end competition as they did in health care, for example, no one goes out of business and costs go through the roof and poverty reaches soviet levels.

When the Republican candidates advocate the elimination the EPA it does not seem they are for strong regualations. The 'jobs' bills posted on this message board (15 Reid ignored) want to allow states to regulate what goes into rivers, rivers which extend beyond their borders. Why do you think the Koch Brothers are spending so much money? It's not because they care about the people downstream; why are they behind all the spending on Prop. 2 in Ohio? Not because they care about the American worker.

In the OP is wrote, " I do see compromise on permits and such as a viable and win - win possibility. I acknowledge there are regualtions, fees, fines, permits and inspection which become oppressive.

As for attacks, I ignore the fools and the less dull ones eventually get it. I've yet to read any substantive posts from those on the far right. I do want to see an open and honest debate which is why the OP is provocative.

Is advcating eliminating the EPA, which is one of the most abusive agencies in gov't, the same as elimimating all regulations?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Is eliminating all police agencies the same as eliminating all laws? For those who can, think of the consequences.

 

[tinydancer]

The current push to end government regulations by the Republican Party is both dangerous and myopic. It is wholly focused on increasing the profits of American Industry - both heavy and financial - at the expense of our environment and our children.

Consider these historical consequences of deregulation:

Superfund Sites Where You Live | Superfund | US EPA

What is Acid Rain? | Acid Rain | US EPA

Cuyahoga River Fire - Ohio History Central - A product of the Ohio Historical Society

The GOP worries about the debt and its effect on our children and grandchildren; so do I. I'd rather they pay taxes tomorrow then suffer the consequences of industrial pollution.

The debate is all about ideology, the Republican ideology is to allow industry - heavy and financial - the freedom to act in their own self interest, using a rational that these industries will be good citizens. History suggests otherwise.

I do see compromise on permits and such as a viable and win - win possibility; I do not see it as long as the Eric Cantor's control the House of Representatives. The GOP has become radicalized, it is no longer a party of the people, and likely has not been so for decades. Yet, it once pretended to be a big tent; today the tent has room only for billionaires and their industrial lobbyists and Wall Street's Masters of the Universe.

Hey half of Obama's economic advisers are from Goldman Sachs so bite me. Don't put up bullshit like this. Because posters like me will call you on it. You are shooting out your ass and only posting" bullshit du jour" that you picked up from another website.

Give me a fucking break. Masters of the Universe. Spare me.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The current push to end government regulations by the Republican Party is both dangerous and myopic. It is wholly focused on increasing the profits of American Industry - both heavy and financial - at the expense of our environment and our children.

Consider these historical consequences of deregulation:

Superfund Sites Where You Live | Superfund | US EPA

What is Acid Rain? | Acid Rain | US EPA

Cuyahoga River Fire - Ohio History Central - A product of the Ohio Historical Society

The GOP worries about the debt and its effect on our children and grandchildren; so do I. I'd rather they pay taxes tomorrow then suffer the consequences of industrial pollution.

The debate is all about ideology, the Republican ideology is to allow industry - heavy and financial - the freedom to act in their own self interest, using a rational that these industries will be good citizens. History suggests otherwise.

I do see compromise on permits and such as a viable and win - win possibility; I do not see it as long as the Eric Cantor's control the House of Representatives. The GOP has become radicalized, it is no longer a party of the people, and likely has not been so for decades. Yet, it once pretended to be a big tent; today the tent has room only for billionaires and their industrial lobbyists and Wall Street's Masters of the Universe.

Hey half of Obama's economic advisers are from Goldman Sachs so bite me. Don't put up bullshit like this. Because posters like me will call you on it. You are shooting out your ass and only posting" bullshit du jour" that you picked up from another website.

Give me a fucking break. Masters of the Universe. Spare me.

Brilliant response, substantive - not. Common and vulgar.

 

[tinydancer]

Now you want to equalize shit? Okey dokey.

Everybody and this is what we did in Canada to make little whiners go away, everyone pays a goods and services tax. And I'm talking everyone but First Nations (they get a pass on on taxes).

Pay your GST on the goldfish you buy for your Oscar to GST on Miracle Grow to the GST when you take a cab or get your hair/nails done or GST to rent a Disney movie.

You breathe. You pay the tax.

You guys are heading that way. You keep up with the bullsit on the so called billionaires who make over $200,000. a year (by the way notice how Axelrod so deftly changed truth? that millionaire and billionaire became 2 person household earning $200,000.?) you will all end up paying a value added tax.

aka goods and services tax.

 

[tinydancer]

The current push to end government regulations by the Republican Party is both dangerous and myopic. It is wholly focused on increasing the profits of American Industry - both heavy and financial - at the expense of our environment and our children.

Consider these historical consequences of deregulation:

Superfund Sites Where You Live | Superfund | US EPA

What is Acid Rain? | Acid Rain | US EPA

Cuyahoga River Fire - Ohio History Central - A product of the Ohio Historical Society

The GOP worries about the debt and its effect on our children and grandchildren; so do I. I'd rather they pay taxes tomorrow then suffer the consequences of industrial pollution.

The debate is all about ideology, the Republican ideology is to allow industry - heavy and financial - the freedom to act in their own self interest, using a rational that these industries will be good citizens. History suggests otherwise.

I do see compromise on permits and such as a viable and win - win possibility; I do not see it as long as the Eric Cantor's control the House of Representatives. The GOP has become radicalized, it is no longer a party of the people, and likely has not been so for decades. Yet, it once pretended to be a big tent; today the tent has room only for billionaires and their industrial lobbyists and Wall Street's Masters of the Universe.

Hey half of Obama's economic advisers are from Goldman Sachs so bite me. Don't put up bullshit like this. Because posters like me will call you on it. You are shooting out your ass and only posting" bullshit du jour" that you picked up from another website.

Give me a fucking break. Masters of the Universe. Spare me.

Brilliant response, substantive - not. Common and vulgar.

Aye carumba.

What is vulgar are the swine in Washington playing with Monopoly Money they don't have and never earned.

And one will never be able to mandate and enforce a nation to care about itself by laws enacted by people who are so removed from the earth inside a beltway swilling wines (I'm into Corsican myself recently quite lovely drys) and dining on Kobe beef.

You as an "enviromentalist" miss the point of conservationism entirely. But keep supporting the morons you have elected and keep slamming Republicans. Keep yacking off making yourself feel all warm and fuzzy.

As a true "vulgar" conservationist,I beleive both sides of the aisle need to be hammered into submission to pass true legislation to keep our countries environmentally sound. But with useful idiots like you. you make the job so much more difficult to get actual conservation laws passed.

 

[editec]

What environmental regs does the GOP want to repeal?

 

[tinydancer]

Oh and for those that don't know...



Goldman Sachs personnel in the ObamaWhite House



Lael Brainard: Brainard is the United States Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs in the administration of Obama

Gregory Craig: Former White House Counsel, Recently hired by Goldman Sachs

Thomas Donilon: Deputy National Security Adviser(despite having a career that is mostly involved with domestic politics). Donilon was a lawyer at O’Melveny and Myers and made almost $4 million representing meltdown clients including Penny Pritzker (of Chicago) and Goldman.

William C. Dudley : president and chief executive officer of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, partner and managing director at Goldman, Sachs and was the firm’s chief U.S. economist for a decade

Douglas Elmendorf: Obama Director of the Congressional Budget Office in January 2009, replaced Furman as Director of the Hamilton Project (Note that the Hamilton Project was funded by Robert Rubin and Goldman Sachs)

Rahm Emanuel: Obama Chief of staff, on the payroll of Goldman Sachs, receiving $3,000 per month from the firm to “introduce us to people,” in the words of one Goldman partner at the time.

Dianna Farrell: Obama Administration: Deputy Director, National Economic Council, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Financial Analyst

Stephen Friedman: Obama Administration: Chairman, President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Board Member (Chairman, 1990-94; Director, 2005

Michael Frohman: Robert Rubin’s Chief of Staff while Rubin served as Secretary of the Treasury and an Obama “head hunter” according to “Rubin Proteges Change Their Tune as They Join Obama’s Team” in the New York Times.

Anne Fudge: appointed Fudge to Obama budget deficit reduction committee. Fudge has been the PR craftsman for some of America’s largest corporations. She sits, according to the Washington Post, as a Trustee of the Brookings Institution within which the Hamilton Project is embedded.

Jason Furman: directed economic policy for the Obama Presidential Campaign, served as the second Director of the Hamilton Project after Peter Orszag’s departure for the Obama administration

Mark Gallogly: Sits on the Hamilton Project’s advisory council. He is also, according to Wikipedia, currently a member of Obama’s President’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board.

Timothy Geithner: Secretary of the Treasury, a former managing director of Goldman Sachs

Gary Gensler: Obama Administration: Commissioner, Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner and Co-head of Finance

Michael Greenstone: the 4th Director of the Hamilton Project. Just as attorney Craig went from advising Obama to defending Goldman Sachs against the SEC complaint, Greenstone has used the revolving door to go from went an economic adviser position to Obama to one of the Goldman Sachs outlets, in this case its think tank embedded in the Brookings Institution and funded by Goldman and Robert Rubin. All 3 previous Directors of the Hamilton Project work in the Obama administration.

Robert Hormats: Obama Administration: Undersecretary for Economic, Energy and Agricultural Affairs, State DepartmentFormer Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman, Goldman Sachs Group

Neel Kashkari: served under Treasury Secretary Paulson and was kept on by Obama after his inauguration for a limited period to work on TARP oversight, former Vice President of Goldman Sachs in San Francisco where he where he led Goldman’s Information Technology Security Investment Banking practice.

Karen Kornbluh: (sometimes called "Obama’s brain") Obama Ambassador to the OECD, was Deputy Chief of Staff to Mr. Goldman Sachs, Robert Rubin

Jacob (AKA "Jack") Lew: the United States Deputy Secretary of State for Management and Resources. According to Wikipedia, Lew sits on the Brookings-Rubin funded Hamilton Project Advisory Board. He also served with Robert Rubin in Bill Clinton’s cabinet as Director of OMB.

David Lipton: now at Obama’s National Economic Council and the National Security Council. Lipton -worked with Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner, on the US response to the Asian financial crisis of the 1990’s. MergeFoundations reports that Lipton worked closely with Robert Rubin:

Emil Michael: White House Fellow, former investment banker with Goldman Sachs

Philip Murphy: Obama Administration: Ambassador to Germany, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Head of Goldman Sachs, Frankfurt

Barack Obama: Obama owes his career to Goldman Sachs which was not only his biggest financial contributor when he ran for the presidency but also his biggest contributor when he ran for the Senate

Peter Orszag, Obama Budget Director, founding director of the Hamilton Project, funded by Goldman Sachs and Robert Rubin. Wikipedia indicates that Robert Rubin, Goldman’s ex-head, was one of Orszag’s mentors.

Mark Patterson: Obama Administration: Chief of Staff to Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geitner, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Lobbyist 2005-2008; Vice President for Government Relations

Mark Peterson: Chief of staff to Timothy Geithner, Goldman Sachs vice president and lobbyist

Steve Ratner: the shady billionaire financier who Obama appointed as his “car czar” and who resigned after it was revealed that his company, the Quadrangle Group, was apparently involved in “pay to play” for a billion dollars or so of New York State pension funds, and was under possible indictment by the New York AG and the SEC, also sits on the Advisory Council of the Goldman funded Hamilton Project

Robert Reischauer: a member of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission from 2000-2009 and was its vice chair from 2001-2008. He too sits on the Hamilton Project’s advisory board.

Alice Rivlin: Obama named Alice Rivlin to his so called deficit reduction commission.

James Rubin: Son of Robert Rubin. Served as a headhunter for Obama per the New York Times article, "Rubin Proteges Change Their Tune as They Join Obama’s Team"

Gene Sperling: advisor to Timothy Geithner on bailouts, Sperling paid by Goldman Sachs for one year of consulting work.

Adam Storch: Obama Managing Executive of the Security and Exchange Commission’s Division of Enforcement Vice President in the Goldman Sachs Business Intelligence Group

Larry Summers: Obama chief economic adviser and head of the National Economic Counsel, Worked under Robert Rubin at Goldman Sachs

John Thain: Obama Administration: Advisor to Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geitner, Former Goldman Sachs Title: President and Chief Operating Officer (1999-2003)



Under the Bush Adminstration:

Joshua Bolten: Bush II Administration: White House Chief of Staff (2006 – 2009), Former Goldman Sachs Title: Executive Director, Legal & Government Affairs (1994-99)

William C Dudley: NY Federal Reserve: Current President/CEO, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner and managing director – 2007

Edward C. Forst: Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008 Former Goldman Sachs Title: Co-head of Goldman’s investment management business

Stephen Friedman: NY Federal Reserve: Former Chairman of the Board – 2009, former Goldman Sachs Title: Board Member (Chairman, 1990-94; Director, 2005-)

Gary Gensler: Bush II Administration: Undersecretary, Treasury (1999-2001) and Assistant Secretary, Treasury (1997-1999), Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner and Co-head of Finance

Reuben Jeffery III: Bush II Administration: Undersecretary for Economic, Energy and Agricultural Affairs, State Department (2007 –2009) Former Goldman Sachs Title: Managing Partner Paris until 2002 Security Investment Banking Practice

Dan Jester: Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Deputy CFO

Neel Kashkari: Bush II Administration: Assistant Secretary for Financial Stability, Treasury (2008 – 2009) Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice President, San Francisco; led Information Technology Security Investment Banking Practice

Henry Paulson: Bush II Administration: Secretary, Treasury 2006 - 2009, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Chairman and CEO (1998-2006)

Robert Rubin: Bush II Administration: Secretary, Treasury 1995-1999, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman (1987-90)

Robert Steel: Bush II Administration: Under Secretary for Domestic Finance, Treasury, (2006 – 2008) Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman – 2004

Steve Shafran: Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008 Former Goldman Sachs Title: Private equity business in Asia until 2000

Kendrick R. Wilson III: Bush II Administration: Advisor on setting up TARP to Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson 2008 Former Goldman Sachs Title: Chairman of Goldman’s financial institutions groups

Robert Zoellick: Bush II Administration: United States Trade Representative (2001-2005), Deputy Secretary of State (2005-2006), World Bank President (2007 -), Former Goldman Sachs Title: Vice Chairman, International (2006-07)



Other Noteworthy Appointees:

Mark Carney: Current Title: Governor, Bank of Canada, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Managing Director Goldman Sachs Canada until 2003

Mario Draghi: Current Title: Governor of the Bank of Italy (2006- ), Former Goldman Sachs Title: European Deputy Chairman/Partner until 2006

Edward Liddy: Current Title: AIG CEO, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Board Member (Chairman, 1990-94; Director, 2005-)

Duncan Niederauer: Current Title: Chair/CEO NYSE, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Managing Director – 2007

Romano Prodi: Current Title: Prime Minister of Italy (1996-1998 and 2006-2008) and President of the European Commission (1999-2004), Former Goldman Sachs Title: Paid adviser/consultant 1990 – 1993

Massimo Tononi: Current Title: Italian Deputy Treasury Chief (2006-2008), Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner 2004 - 2006

Malcolm Turnbull: Current Title: Federal Leader, Liberal Party, Australia, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Partner (1998-2001)

David Watson: Current Title: Monetary Policy Committee, Bank of England, Former Goldman Sachs Title: Chief European economist

 

[tinydancer]

What environmental regs does the GOP want to repeal?

The GOP? Oh that's easy. No recycling of the bones from the kitties and puppies we have eaten.

 

[tinydancer]

Let's make sure everyone can get a grip on this White House. And I know how the game is played in DC but to lie so blatantly. Well that's Bam Bam.

Rahm Emanuel: Obama Chief of staff, on the payroll of Goldman Sachs, receiving $3,000 per month from the firm to “introduce us to people,” in the words of one Goldman partner at the time.

 

[editec]

Its pretty much the same geniuses who crashed the economy now in charge of reviving it.

Parties come and go but the WONKS just change chairs and keep on playing.

Hopefully some of our partisan chums are going to finally reconize how they're being played for dupes by this scam.

Until they do?

The WONKS will continue to win, the people to lose.

 

[The Rabbi]

Is eliminating all police agencies the same as eliminating all laws? For those who can, think of the consequences.

That's your response? Really?
How does that answer the question? Seriously.

 

[pete]

The current push to end government regulations by the Republican Party is both dangerous and myopic. It is wholly focused on increasing the profits of American Industry - both heavy and financial - at the expense of our environment and our children.

Consider these historical consequences of deregulation:

Superfund Sites Where You Live | Superfund | US EPA

What is Acid Rain? | Acid Rain | US EPA

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1642

The GOP worries about the debt and its effect on our children and grandchildren; so do I. I'd rather they pay taxes tomorrow then suffer the consequences of industrial pollution.

The debate is all about ideology, the Republican ideology is to allow industry - heavy and financial - the freedom to act in their own self interest, using a rational that these industries will be good citizens. History suggests otherwise.

I do see compromise on permits and such as a viable and win - win possibility; I do not see it as long as the Eric Cantor's control the House of Representatives. The GOP has become radicalized, it is no longer a party of the people, and likely has not been so for decades. Yet, it once pretended to be a big tent; today the tent has room only for billionaires and their industrial lobbyists and Wall Street's Masters of the Universe.

and why exactly do you think china has done so well .... ? Why do businesses go over seas only to import back ... ? We all breathe the same air and if there is no bubble over the us and the rest of the world isnt following the same stifling regulations there is no point. Its going to take thousands of years if not millions before the air is unsafe, but at the same time technology will be changing and change quicker if regulations are lifted hopefully for the better. This in turn creating industry and jobs.
African dust storms have covered my vehicles when I used to live in TX ....

 

[daveman]

No one suggests Republicans like dirty air or dirty water...

Really?

Do you support the elimination of the EPA?

 

[daveman]

If you want to see the most fouled, polluted and most dangerous places on Earth, visit any Progressive Utopia.

East Germany was a fucking skank hole, so is North Korea and Haiti

All of the east bloc soviet satellite nations had serious pollution problems, not because they were progressive, in fact all including the Soviet Union were conservative an authoritarian. Your ignorance in such matters is impressive. That you are not embarrassed by your posts is incredible.

For someone who opposes personal attacks, you sure do engage in them a lot.

 

[daveman]

The current push to end government regulations by the Republican Party is both dangerous and myopic.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.