On issue of gays in military,P...Congress...

[Zona]

I was in the Navy from 1969 until 1989. That's 20 straight years of unbroken service. I retired honorably and was glad I served. In that 20 year period of time I personally know of five different times in which gays were discharged from the service. In each case it was because the gays openly admitted their homosexuality and came out of the closet except in one case when two people engaged in homosexual activity was actually caught in the act onboard a ship I was stationed on. Their sexual preferences, while I was in, was not tolerated. As I said, I retired from the Navy in 1989. That was 20 years ago so I have been out of the military for as long as I was in. While I do believe the times are changing, I don't believe that allowing gays to openly serve in the military is going to be as well accepted as some seem to insist that it will. Myself, personally, I am glad I am no longer on active duty and have to tolerate this type of thing. I was not raised to accept and believe that homosexuality was normal - and I do not believe it is normal behavior now. I am very thankful that I don't have to put up with this crap. I believe that time is going to show that allowing homosexuals to serve openly is a very bad mistake.

When you first joined, remember when women werent allowed to serve on ships. didnt you say the same thing about them serving on board?

I hope you understand my point.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Do you honestly think you didn't serve with gays? In hind sight, seriously, do you think everyone you served with was straight?

if you really believe that, then you are either naive or just want to be blind.

It wont make a bit of difference. Its been proven by other large militaries. The homophobes will come out of course...

There was rumor and I had 2 females discharged from my Platoon, I don't believe they were gay but they decided not to fight it. And I know of one troop who was going to be processed out as I was doing my final out processing. They found gay porno films in his wall locker. Other than that I do not know of any gays that I served with. There may have been some, but I didn't know about it. And I would have heard about it if it was within my Battalion and sometimes within the Brigade. I believe it will make a difference, as I have said, we shall see.

perfect post. You really didnt know about the gays that were in your battalion because they had to hide it. They hid it because , like those two women you mentioned, they would have been kicked out.

There was also a time when blacks weren't allowed in a battalion just like yours a few years ago. Cant you see the same type things were said when they were threatened with segregation? Same crap. It will break up unit cohesion, it will not be normal, it will blah blah blah.

Racists, sexists, homophobes.....same crap.

Racism cannot be compared to homosexuals. Not even close to the same thing.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Do you honestly think you didn't serve with gays? In hind sight, seriously, do you think everyone you served with was straight?

if you really believe that, then you are either naive or just want to be blind.

It wont make a bit of difference. Its been proven by other large militaries. The homophobes will come out of course...

There was rumor and I had 2 females discharged from my Platoon, I don't believe they were gay but they decided not to fight it. And I know of one troop who was going to be processed out as I was doing my final out processing. They found gay porno films in his wall locker

And there's the witch-hunt that you say doesn't exist.

Showing your ignorance of the military again?

In a training atmosphere there are things called a health and welfare inspection.

The Nco's search the entire barracks unannounced looking for any thing that would hurt the health or welfare of anyone in the barracks. Things like weapons, drugs, or paraphernalia. In this case the Drill Sergeant inspecting this troops locker noticed the name on a VHS tape "Back Door Buddies". Sort of gave it all away real fast.

 

[Rudy]

There was rumor and I had 2 females discharged from my Platoon, I don't believe they were gay but they decided not to fight it. And I know of one troop who was going to be processed out as I was doing my final out processing. They found gay porno films in his wall locker

And there's the witch-hunt that you say doesn't exist.

Showing your ignorance of the military again?

In a training atmosphere there are things called a health and welfare inspection.

The Nco's search the entire barracks unannounced looking for any thing that would hurt the health or welfare of anyone in the barracks. Things like weapons, drugs, or paraphernalia. In this case the Drill Sergeant inspecting this troops locker noticed the name on a VHS tape "Back Door Buddies". Sort of gave it all away real fast.

I'm sure someone wouldn't keep a gay porn in their footlocker knowing about the possibility of a health & comfort inspection...

The possibility of the DI planting the tape in his footlocker is more likely.

Witch Hunt.

 

[Damo]

The celebrated Spartan Army actively tried to prevent its soldiers from having wives or girlfriends. In fact they were forbidden to get married. They viewed filial love as a positive advantage for an army. Just something to think about.
Normal? Homosexual behavior is quite normal for a small percentage of the population, along with left handedness. Homosexuality, like left handedness cannot be 'cured' as it is an innate part of a person's being. A homosexual or a south paw exhibit behavior that runs contrary to the majority of the population but that doesn't make their behavior any less normal. Just because you find homosexual behavior distasteful, doesn't give you the right to victimize and discriminate against people who are of that orientation. Left handedness until relatively recently was regarded by religious fanatics and the general population as an aberration and satanic. People were tortured, vilified and punished for something which to them was as natural as breathing. I don't care whether you like homosexuals or homosexuality, but please don't make life any more difficult for people who, by no choice of their own, have a sexual orientation that differs from the majority. At the end of the day no one is trying to make you participate in their sexual activity, just respect their right to be who they are without fear of prejudice.

 

[rdean]

I wonder if there is a statistic, but it seems the same guys so terrified of the gays are the same ones that beat up women, or don't have a woman.

 

[FireGod]

I wonder if there is a statistic, but it seems the same guys so terrified of the gays are the same ones that beat up women, or don't have a woman.

I believe it is a fear of sex. Think about it for a bit.

 

[eagleseven]

I believe it is a fear of sex. Think about it for a bit.

The severely homophobic guys I know became surprisingly "live and let live" after their first girlfriend.

How many enlisted had girlfriends before they signed up (few)? How many officers had girlfriends before signing up (most)?


Coincidence? I think not...

 

[Gadawg73]

I am one that wants to end the ban and allow openly gay and lesbians serve but I am also one that believes we need to listen to the military in how to implement it.
I disagree strongly with Ollie on this issue and believe some of his views are backward but I stand for his right to state his beliefs and all Americans need to listen. He has earned that right as a career military man and should be able to make his case without attacking him personally.
I attack his opinion early and often as I believe he is dead wrong. However, I do not attack him personally as I have seen others do.
The fact remains that this law is absurd. Let them be who they are and let them serve. They deserve the same rights as everyone.

 

[Zona]

There was rumor and I had 2 females discharged from my Platoon, I don't believe they were gay but they decided not to fight it. And I know of one troop who was going to be processed out as I was doing my final out processing. They found gay porno films in his wall locker. Other than that I do not know of any gays that I served with. There may have been some, but I didn't know about it. And I would have heard about it if it was within my Battalion and sometimes within the Brigade. I believe it will make a difference, as I have said, we shall see.

perfect post. You really didnt know about the gays that were in your battalion because they had to hide it. They hid it because , like those two women you mentioned, they would have been kicked out.

There was also a time when blacks weren't allowed in a battalion just like yours a few years ago. Cant you see the same type things were said when they were threatened with segregation? Same crap. It will break up unit cohesion, it will not be normal, it will blah blah blah.

Racists, sexists, homophobes.....same crap.

Racism cannot be compared to homosexuals. Not even close to the same thing.

Racism and homosexuals? You make no sense. Did you mean racism and homophobia?

Being a Racist is just as bad as being homophobic in my opinion. They are both as bad as being a sexist.

To me, its all the same. They are based on hate.

 

[Zona]

There was rumor and I had 2 females discharged from my Platoon, I don't believe they were gay but they decided not to fight it. And I know of one troop who was going to be processed out as I was doing my final out processing. They found gay porno films in his wall locker

And there's the witch-hunt that you say doesn't exist.

Showing your ignorance of the military again?

In a training atmosphere there are things called a health and welfare inspection.

The Nco's search the entire barracks unannounced looking for any thing that would hurt the health or welfare of anyone in the barracks. Things like weapons, drugs, or paraphernalia. In this case the Drill Sergeant inspecting this troops locker noticed the name on a VHS tape "Back Door Buddies". Sort of gave it all away real fast.

But there is also times when military personal go to gay bars to find out what other military personel are in there and they get outed. That is a witch hunt and it has been done before.

Now tell me i am showing ignorance of the military.

 

[SFC Ollie]

And there's the witch-hunt that you say doesn't exist.

Showing your ignorance of the military again?

In a training atmosphere there are things called a health and welfare inspection.

The Nco's search the entire barracks unannounced looking for any thing that would hurt the health or welfare of anyone in the barracks. Things like weapons, drugs, or paraphernalia. In this case the Drill Sergeant inspecting this troops locker noticed the name on a VHS tape "Back Door Buddies". Sort of gave it all away real fast.

But there is also times when military personal go to gay bars to find out what other military personel are in there and they get outed. That is a witch hunt and it has been done before.

Now tell me i am showing ignorance of the military.

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

 

[Rudy]

Showing your ignorance of the military again?

In a training atmosphere there are things called a health and welfare inspection.

The Nco's search the entire barracks unannounced looking for any thing that would hurt the health or welfare of anyone in the barracks. Things like weapons, drugs, or paraphernalia. In this case the Drill Sergeant inspecting this troops locker noticed the name on a VHS tape "Back Door Buddies". Sort of gave it all away real fast.

But there is also times when military personal go to gay bars to find out what other military personel are in there and they get outed. That is a witch hunt and it has been done before.

Now tell me i am showing ignorance of the military.

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

But you got out right around the time DADT came into existence right?

So exactly how would you know?

 

[Zona]

Showing your ignorance of the military again?

In a training atmosphere there are things called a health and welfare inspection.

The Nco's search the entire barracks unannounced looking for any thing that would hurt the health or welfare of anyone in the barracks. Things like weapons, drugs, or paraphernalia. In this case the Drill Sergeant inspecting this troops locker noticed the name on a VHS tape "Back Door Buddies". Sort of gave it all away real fast.

But there is also times when military personal go to gay bars to find out what other military personel are in there and they get outed. That is a witch hunt and it has been done before.

Now tell me i am showing ignorance of the military.

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

Not a NCO in your brigade or barracks, internal investigaters do it. In my day and in my branch, they were called NIS. At this point, all it takes is an jilted x to out you and your bounced. That is just wrong.

 

[Zona]

But there is also times when military personal go to gay bars to find out what other military personel are in there and they get outed. That is a witch hunt and it has been done before.

Now tell me i am showing ignorance of the military.

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

But you got out right around the time DADT came into existence right?

So exactly how would you know?

Certain ages just dont get it. Certain ages still feels as though women shouldnt serve, or integration for the troops was wrong, but they are dying off.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

But you got out right around the time DADT came into existence right?

So exactly how would you know?

Certain ages just dont get it. Certain ages still feels as though women shouldnt serve, or integration for the troops was wrong, but they are dying off.

You two are really nuts about this, Makes me wonder if you might be bunk buddies.

Yes I got out about that time. (Thank God) but you know I still get emails from troops that served with me and still have contact with others that retired after I did, as I'll bet most of the retirees on this board will say the same thing.

I am also the Vice Commander of my local American Legion Post. We have members who have gotten out in the past 2 years. We actually sit down and talk about the military and swap stories and all those good things. You think that a career Military person just walks away from their entire life?

And I never had a problem with women serving. Or anyone based upon race.

I do try to be realistic, but all I see here is that we are stepping on the gays rights. And that's more bullshit than a little bit. They already have the freedom to serve. DADT works, leave it alone.

 

[groupthink]

homosexuals should be able to die for rockafeller like the rest of the lower classes.

 

[bodecea]

But you got out right around the time DADT came into existence right?

So exactly how would you know?

Certain ages just dont get it. Certain ages still feels as though women shouldnt serve, or integration for the troops was wrong, but they are dying off.

You two are really nuts about this, Makes me wonder if you might be bunk buddies.

Yes I got out about that time. (Thank God) but you know I still get emails from troops that served with me and still have contact with others that retired after I did, as I'll bet most of the retirees on this board will say the same thing.

I am also the Vice Commander of my local American Legion Post. We have members who have gotten out in the past 2 years. We actually sit down and talk about the military and swap stories and all those good things. You think that a career Military person just walks away from their entire life?

And I never had a problem with women serving. Or anyone based upon race.

I do try to be realistic, but all I see here is that we are stepping on the gays rights. And that's more bullshit than a little bit. They already have the freedom to serve. DADT works, leave it alone.

Video: Don't Ask, Don't Tell Hearing | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Now we know what you look like?

Or maybe we should consider this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-3-2010/a-few-gay-men---women

 

[bodecea]

But there is also times when military personal go to gay bars to find out what other military personel are in there and they get outed. That is a witch hunt and it has been done before.

Now tell me i am showing ignorance of the military.

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

Not a NCO in your brigade or barracks, internal investigaters do it. In my day and in my branch, they were called NIS. At this point, all it takes is an jilted x to out you and your bounced. That is just wrong.

I recommend anyone who wants to find out just how much of a liar Ollie is, read "Conduct Unbecoming" or else google the USS Iowa explosion. The NIS was on such pressure to witch hunt, they destroyed the reputation of straight sailors in order to put the blame on homosexuality. Eventually, the Navy was so embarassed by the NIS's conduct...they changed it's name to NCIS. Same group, same idiots, different name.

Also...google USS Norton Sound witchhunt..and how the NIS went about collecting names of female sailors to interrogate by passing a list of female sailors around to the male sailors to have them check off who they thought was gay (funny how it was the black female sailors)

 

[SFC Ollie]

I don't believe I know of one NCO who ever lowered themselves to entering a known Gay bar. This so called Witch hunt does not exist.

Not a NCO in your brigade or barracks, internal investigaters do it. In my day and in my branch, they were called NIS. At this point, all it takes is an jilted x to out you and your bounced. That is just wrong.

I recommend anyone who wants to find out just how much of a liar Ollie is, read "Conduct Unbecoming" or else google the USS Iowa explosion. The NIS was on such pressure to witch hunt, they destroyed the reputation of straight sailors in order to put the blame on homosexuality. Eventually, the Navy was so embarassed by the NIS's conduct...they changed it's name to NCIS. Same group, same idiots, different name.

Also...google USS Norton Sound witchhunt..and how the NIS went about collecting names of female sailors to interrogate by passing a list of female sailors around to the male sailors to have them check off who they thought was gay (funny how it was the black female sailors)

If you were in truth an Officer in the US Military you would know that you do not attack the integrity of an NCO. Fuck you very much and for your liar comment please join those privilaged few on my ignored list.