Old Blue quit me last week...

[progressive hunter]

Hell, I'm plumb out of ideas then.

he hasnt tried explosives' yet,,

 

[The Duke]

In the parking lot at AutoZone.

Been chasing down that "heat soak starter" problem... replacing batteries and battery cables in my '89 F150... this was June of last year...

Made a starter heat shield...

Old starter on the pickup had a heat sunk starting problem... Has had for years... But it started getting worse of late so I replaced the starter. Someone before me threw the heat shield away when they replaced the starter...but I figured the new starter would be ok for a few years. Nope...

www.usmessageboard.com

And y'all likely saw my battery replacement thread. I was replacing everything from the battery to the starter that I thought may have been causing the problem... and that led be to break the starter solenoid (Starter Relay technically I recently learned). Took three replacements from AutoZone and an upgrade from Duralast Standard to Duralast Gold to get one that the plunger didn't hang up in and keep the starter engaged after the engine had started. You almost have to test every new part you buy anymore.

Anyway... thought I had it licked but the "heat soak" slow cranking without starting while hot persisted and was getting worse. Even on short trips of a couple miles the engine needed to cool.

So...I was at the parts store getting something... don't remember what... and when I went to leave... Crank but no start. Ether didn't even coax a cough or a sputter.

Did what I could without much by way of tools... but in the end a multimeter at AutoZone was a not that much cheaper than a tow and not nearly as nice as the one I already owned... so ignominiously towed out of the AutoZone parking lot and back to the house to be multimetered and test lighted and hopefully repaired.

No spark. Replaced the ignition coil on hunch. Bad hunch. No joy. No pulse from ICM to TACH side of the coil... just a bright, continuous 12v while cranking.

Back to the parts store for an ICM. Supposed to be removable with a 5.5 mm socket. NOPE. 5.5 mm THINWALL socket.

Back to the parts store for an Ignition Module Tool. A somewhat reasonable six bucks.

View attachment 628920

Got to turn the distributor to access the rear screw... so clean the base, mark it, loosen the bolt, turn it until the ICM touches the alternator bracket. I'll get a picture tomorrow, but this isn't an ordinary bracket... It's the granddaddy of all brackets. It holds the alternator and the smog pump and something else...a real chore to remove or even loosen.

The front screw is easy enough to remove, but I can't get on the rear screw because that silver knurled twisty part won't clear the thermostat housing.

Probably the easiest route is to drain the the radiator and remove the upper radiator hose and then the thermostat housing. Removing the distributor entirely or removing the bracket were other options... but I chose the option behind door number three.

I got out the Franken-bandsaw and cut the module tool in half.

View attachment 628919

WooHoo...now I can get on the screw head and remove the ICM by turning the half tool with an open end wrench.

Installed new ICM, realigned distributor and tightened her down...and presto... Truck starts and runs as close to like new as it did before... which is not very but good enough.

So... to make a long story even longer... I'm wondering if the ICM was causing the "heat soak" problem from the beginning... that it was failing slowly and when it got hot it was retarding the timing and causing the slow crank no start condition. Have to take it on a long drive, shut it off and see if it will start right back up.

Time will tell...

Anyhow...$50 for the tow, $42 for the coil, $45 for the ICM, $6 for the tool, roughly three hours of work, an hour of travel time total to and from the parts store three times and probably four hours of research to get her up and running.

Did I save money? Maybe... but probably not.

Did I learn a lot? Absolutely. Diagnostics of electronics is likely my weakest area in mechanicing.

Did the satisfaction of getting her running again make up for the frustration and hours of research? You betcha! When the truck started I threw my arms up like Rocky topping the stairs at the Philadelphia Museum of art... Literally... That happened.

View attachment 628927

A good day...

 

[Dekster]

Did that too. Add a brand new second ground to frame, new positive battery to starter relay, new terminal hardware BUT... I haven't replaced starter relay to starter yet...think that is going to be next.

Did you ever get this finally sorted? I was told that sometimes it happens because you need to grease the inside of the steering column. Something to do with the cup that is in column right below the key switch sticking

 

[Missourian]

Did you ever get this finally sorted? I was told that sometimes it happens because you need to grease the inside of the steering column. Something to do with the cup that is in column right below the key switch sticking

Figured out a few things.

The reason the column ignition doesn't work is the neutral safety switch.

There is no adjustment.

I could replace it but my bypass push button start works fine.

The starter problem turned out to be...drumroll...the starter.

The brand new starter was bad.

The starter pinion failed catastrophically when the starter failed to disengage. It was under warranty.

Installed it and...no more slow start/no start when hot.

It is possible one of the other repairs fixed the problem but the new starter was already damaged by the former condition...who knows. But it's been months now and no problems.

 

[Dekster]

Figured out a few things.

The reason the column ignition doesn't work is the neutral safety switch.

There is no adjustment.

I could replace it but my bypass push button start works fine.

The starter problem turned out to be...drumroll...the starter.

The brand new starter was bad.

The starter pinion failed catastrophically when the starter failed to disengage. It was under warranty.

Installed it and...no more slow start/no start when hot.

It is possible one of the other repairs fixed the problem but the new starter was already damaged by the former condition...who knows. But it's been months now and no problems.

I had to replace the neutral safety switch in a Cavalier convertible I had once. Didn't fix the problem. Replaced the combo starter solenoid, NNS, and ignition module. Then took to the mechanic who kept it a few weeks and told me he didn't care where I wanted to tow the thing to but he was literally never working on that car ever again LOL. He rereplaced everything and every time he test drove it, he still got stranded somewhere and had to walk back to the garage and get his truck and tow it again. I just eventually sent it to the junkyard. I figured if a real mechanic couldn't solve the mystery, there was no hope for me either.


I've about given up on my 1990 F-150 now that I cannot find anybody willing to pull the steering wheel for me to grease it locally and I have done everything else but bypass the switch. That is about the only thing I haven't tried. About 20 minutes of run time and the starter will stay engaged even after you shut the engine off. Since one of the doors won't lock, I am not comfortable with bypassing the switch. Too many rascals in my hood (and house LOL). Not worth the liability risk. I will just replace the truck when the prices come back out of the stratosphere.

 

[Missourian]

I had to replace the neutral safety switch in a Cavalier convertible I had once. Didn't fix the problem. Replaced the combo starter solenoid, NNS, and ignition module. Then took to the mechanic who kept it a few weeks and told me he didn't care where I wanted to tow the thing to but he was literally never working on that car ever again LOL. He rereplaced everything and every time he test drove it, he still got stranded somewhere and had to walk back to the garage and get his truck and tow it again. I just eventually sent it to the junkyard. I figured if a real mechanic couldn't solve the mystery, there was no hope for me either.


I've about given up on my 1990 F-150 now that I cannot find anybody willing to pull the steering wheel for me to grease it locally and I have done everything else but bypass the switch. That is about the only thing I haven't tried. About 20 minutes of run time and the starter will stay engaged even after you shut the engine off. Since one of the doors won't lock, I am not comfortable with bypassing the switch. Too many rascals in my hood (and house LOL). Not worth the liability risk. I will just replace the truck when the prices come back out of the stratosphere.

Will the key not turn to the run position?

My truck doesn't lock either.

The bypass only engages the starter... You still need the key to make it run.

 

[Missourian]

Dekster 1989 Ford F150 ignition button install...

 

[Dekster]

Will the key not turn to the run position?

My truck doesn't lock either.

The bypass only engages the starter... You still need the key to make it run.

Key works fine.

 

[Missourian]

Key works fine.

Just follow those directions.

The top little stud on your starter relay on the firewall is what activates the starter when it is energized.

The push button only activates the starter exactly like jumping the starter relay main studs with a screw driver.

So you're not giving them access to anything more than they could do by popping the hood. The truck will still not start without the ignition key in the run position, the steering wheel won't unlock nor the column shifter unlock.

I assume it is hard to turn the ignition to start, or turning it to the start position doesn't do anything.

That is exactly what mine did...and I thought it was the linkage as well...but it's not. It's the neutral safety switch.

You can test this.

Turn your key to the run position and move the shifter away from the endstop where we all slam it to when putting it in park. Try different positions in the park range or try neutral.

You should fine a location where the neutral safety switch finds the butter zone and it starts easily.

 

[Missourian]

Just follow those directions.

The top little stud on your starter relay on the firewall is what activates the starter when it is energized.

The push button only activates the starter exactly like jumping the starter relay main studs with a screw driver.

So you're not giving them access to anything more than they could do by popping the hood. The truck will still not start without the ignition key in the run position, the steering wheel won't unlock nor the column shifter unlock.

I assume it is hard to turn the ignition to start, or turning it to the start position doesn't do anything.

That is exactly what mine did...and I thought it was the linkage as well...but it's not. It's the neutral safety switch.

You can test this.

Turn your key to the run position and move the shifter away from the endstop where we all slam it to when putting it in park. Try different positions in the park range or try neutral.

You should fine a location where the neutral safety switch finds the butter zone and it starts easily.

Dekster ... I reread this...starter relay is on the fender by the battery...not the firewall.

 

[miketx]

In the parking lot at AutoZone.

Been chasing down that "heat soak starter" problem... replacing batteries and battery cables in my '89 F150... this was June of last year...

Made a starter heat shield...

Old starter on the pickup had a heat sunk starting problem... Has had for years... But it started getting worse of late so I replaced the starter. Someone before me threw the heat shield away when they replaced the starter...but I figured the new starter would be ok for a few years. Nope...

www.usmessageboard.com

And y'all likely saw my battery replacement thread. I was replacing everything from the battery to the starter that I thought may have been causing the problem... and that led be to break the starter solenoid (Starter Relay technically I recently learned). Took three replacements from AutoZone and an upgrade from Duralast Standard to Duralast Gold to get one that the plunger didn't hang up in and keep the starter engaged after the engine had started. You almost have to test every new part you buy anymore.

Anyway... thought I had it licked but the "heat soak" slow cranking without starting while hot persisted and was getting worse. Even on short trips of a couple miles the engine needed to cool.

So...I was at the parts store getting something... don't remember what... and when I went to leave... Crank but no start. Ether didn't even coax a cough or a sputter.

Did what I could without much by way of tools... but in the end a multimeter at AutoZone was a not that much cheaper than a tow and not nearly as nice as the one I already owned... so ignominiously towed out of the AutoZone parking lot and back to the house to be multimetered and test lighted and hopefully repaired.

No spark. Replaced the ignition coil on hunch. Bad hunch. No joy. No pulse from ICM to TACH side of the coil... just a bright, continuous 12v while cranking.

Back to the parts store for an ICM. Supposed to be removable with a 5.5 mm socket. NOPE. 5.5 mm THINWALL socket.

Back to the parts store for an Ignition Module Tool. A somewhat reasonable six bucks.

View attachment 628920

Got to turn the distributor to access the rear screw... so clean the base, mark it, loosen the bolt, turn it until the ICM touches the alternator bracket. I'll get a picture tomorrow, but this isn't an ordinary bracket... It's the granddaddy of all brackets. It holds the alternator and the smog pump and something else...a real chore to remove or even loosen.

The front screw is easy enough to remove, but I can't get on the rear screw because that silver knurled twisty part won't clear the thermostat housing.

Probably the easiest route is to drain the the radiator and remove the upper radiator hose and then the thermostat housing. Removing the distributor entirely or removing the bracket were other options... but I chose the option behind door number three.

I got out the Franken-bandsaw and cut the module tool in half.

View attachment 628919

WooHoo...now I can get on the screw head and remove the ICM by turning the half tool with an open end wrench.

Installed new ICM, realigned distributor and tightened her down...and presto... Truck starts and runs as close to like new as it did before... which is not very but good enough.

So... to make a long story even longer... I'm wondering if the ICM was causing the "heat soak" problem from the beginning... that it was failing slowly and when it got hot it was retarding the timing and causing the slow crank no start condition. Have to take it on a long drive, shut it off and see if it will start right back up.

Time will tell...

Anyhow...$50 for the tow, $42 for the coil, $45 for the ICM, $6 for the tool, roughly three hours of work, an hour of travel time total to and from the parts store three times and probably four hours of research to get her up and running.

Did I save money? Maybe... but probably not.

Did I learn a lot? Absolutely. Diagnostics of electronics is likely my weakest area in mechanicing.

Did the satisfaction of getting her running again make up for the frustration and hours of research? You betcha! When the truck started I threw my arms up like Rocky topping the stairs at the Philadelphia Museum of art... Literally... That happened.

View attachment 628927

A good day...

I worked on that stuff nearly 40 years, and toward the end I had visions of dropping auto engineers into the sun. They're nearly as spineless and worthless as democrats.