OK Obama, you won reelection. Time to close Gitmo

[Procrustes Stretched]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

Who do you think Obama is, some sort of champion of civil rights?

He is. What has this to do with it? National security and the US Supreme Court has made some rulings.

Reasonable people can disagree, but you being unreasonable are lost here.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Terrorists by definition are criminals. Criminals get lawyers. Why would you fear open trials?

Citizens get lawyers, everyone else has to pay for one

The right to an attorney has never applied just to citizens

It is a basic human right

It is not a human right, it is a civil right.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

I always said "Never gonna happen"

During the Democratic primaries of 2008, i used to laugh and now I laugh again. Why? Harsh realities where fear and politics at home, meets terrorism and legitimate national security issues.

No state will gladly accept the detainees if GITMO closes and any of the detainees/prisoners left are to be kept in prison or custody. If for some odd reason all the detainees are cleared and sent home...some will fight being sent home. There is more...

The complex issues surrounding US criminal law and military law, were handed off to the Obama admin and people were warned of the complexities and harsh realities in the 2008 general election, but people of the left chose to ignore reality.

go figure
-----------------

President Obama may have been a Law Prof, but he was always a pragmatic, thoughtful, man. He knows there are political concerns, legitimate political concerns, in decisions like closing GITMO. Like decisions made by Chief Justice John Marshall, and Chief Justice Roberts, I believe President Obama will walk a fine line as he already has. Huge decisions can be parsed and split...Marbury v Madison/Obamacare .. both walked a fine line because of the immense political considerations involved for the nation as a whole, for society. Sometimes following principles to their logical ends would be like a surgery that is successful, but kills the patient.

----

Now, I would like to see the detainees charged and tried or classified as POWs in open court. But I know there are two types of detainees...military detainees caught up in a military invasions in Afghanistan and in Iraq (these would be people caught up in fighting the Taliban and the Iraqi military who are by definition and reality, prisoners of war.), and the detainees caught up in sweeps of terrorist cells and activity who are in my opinion, common criminals. Now if the wars are over...what does the law say we do with POWs? The detainees I consider common criminals? Charge them and try them or let them go. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

I do not like the WoT industrial complex. I think it stinks. It threatens liberties and freedoms.

There are no super evil, super human, boogyman terrorists. There are only common criminals who hide behind religious extremism.

Obama was never a law professor, he was a visiting lecturer, there is a very significant difference between the two. Another thing he has never been is pragmatic, if he was pragmatic he would never have issued an order to close the place. The first thing any leader needs to learn is to never give an order that you know will not be obeyed. If Obama was half as pragmatic as he is in your imagination he would have known the order to close Gitmo wouldn't be obeyed, and never issued it in the first place.

I don't know why people admire pragmatism so much anyway, it is one of the most despicable traits any human being can have. Ever take the time to wonder what other great decisions were the result of being pragmatic?

I know. No need to nit pick. It was a creative use. see: Prof

Pragmatism is what gave the US Constitution a chance of passing ratification.


next

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

Too bad repubs don't agree.

It wasn't the Republicans that stopped the closing of Gitmo.

It wasn't the Democrats that opened GITMO.

how stupid this line of debate is

you have nothing of any value to add. you lost in a terrible way. you are too angry and hurt. take some time off. get some fresh air

 

[Quantum Windbag]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

You think Republicans will let him this time? If they can figure out a way to hold millions of Americans hostage again, they might win.

I don't understand why Republicans are always helping al Qaeda.

Why does every idiot on the planet blame Republicans for Gitmo not closing? Even Obama is honest enough to admit that he couldn't sell the idea to the Democratic congresscritters, yet you keep insisting that it is the fault of one party.

 

[alan1]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

What????? *Gasp*
Almost 4 years later and it's not closed yet?
Obama vows to close Guantanamo Bay | NowPublic News Coverage

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

What????? *Gasp*
Almost 4 years later and it's not closed yet?
Obama vows to close Guantanamo Bay | NowPublic News Coverage

2008. and what happened? Why is it not closed?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

You think Republicans will let him this time? If they can figure out a way to hold millions of Americans hostage again, they might win.

I don't understand why Republicans are always helping al Qaeda.

This is not something that has to go to Congress

The US has had 10 years to build a case. If they can't, assume they are innocent and send them back to where they came from

Many are accused of crimes that would not have gotten them ten years if convicted

It doesn't have to go to Congress? Since when? What are we supposed to do with the people that aren't wanted in other countries? There were 15 Uyghur's that were officially released in 2005 because they were not going to attack the United States. The problem was that they had every intention of attacking China, and could not be released back to China, despite the existence of several court orders. It took years to find a country that would accept them, and took promises of extra money to make it work, that had to be approved by Congress.

Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you pontificate, that way you won't end up looking like a Fox News reporter.

 

[AmyNation]

Patriot Act and Gitmo, 2 big reasons why I couldn't vote for Obama.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

Who do you think Obama is, some sort of champion of civil rights?

He is. What has this to do with it? National security and the US Supreme Court has made some rulings.

Reasonable people can disagree, but you being unreasonable are lost here.

If he was a champion of civil rights he would have taken the argument to close Gitmo public and forced his won party to toe the line, he didn't. Unless you are willing to discuss this from a position that lays the blame where it belongs I will treat you like the troll you normally are from now on in this thread.

 

[alan1]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

What????? *Gasp*
Almost 4 years later and it's not closed yet?
Obama vows to close Guantanamo Bay | NowPublic News Coverage

2008. and what happened? Why is it not closed?

Wait, there is more, Archives for classical music | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM
snip,

US President-elect Barack Obama vowed to pull troops out of Iraq, crush Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and shut down the Guantanamo Bay camp as part of a dramatic foreign policy break with George W. Bush, AFP reports.

Troops were pulled out of Iraq (on the George Bush established timeline).
Al-Qaeda is still alive and well in Afghanistan.
Guantanamo Bay is still open.
Seems that he fulfilled Bush's promise, but not his own when it comes to international affairs.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I always said "Never gonna happen"

During the Democratic primaries of 2008, i used to laugh and now I laugh again. Why? Harsh realities where fear and politics at home, meets terrorism and legitimate national security issues.

No state will gladly accept the detainees if GITMO closes and any of the detainees/prisoners left are to be kept in prison or custody. If for some odd reason all the detainees are cleared and sent home...some will fight being sent home. There is more...

The complex issues surrounding US criminal law and military law, were handed off to the Obama admin and people were warned of the complexities and harsh realities in the 2008 general election, but people of the left chose to ignore reality.

go figure
-----------------

President Obama may have been a Law Prof, but he was always a pragmatic, thoughtful, man. He knows there are political concerns, legitimate political concerns, in decisions like closing GITMO. Like decisions made by Chief Justice John Marshall, and Chief Justice Roberts, I believe President Obama will walk a fine line as he already has. Huge decisions can be parsed and split...Marbury v Madison/Obamacare .. both walked a fine line because of the immense political considerations involved for the nation as a whole, for society. Sometimes following principles to their logical ends would be like a surgery that is successful, but kills the patient.

----

Now, I would like to see the detainees charged and tried or classified as POWs in open court. But I know there are two types of detainees...military detainees caught up in a military invasions in Afghanistan and in Iraq (these would be people caught up in fighting the Taliban and the Iraqi military who are by definition and reality, prisoners of war.), and the detainees caught up in sweeps of terrorist cells and activity who are in my opinion, common criminals. Now if the wars are over...what does the law say we do with POWs? The detainees I consider common criminals? Charge them and try them or let them go. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

I do not like the WoT industrial complex. I think it stinks. It threatens liberties and freedoms.

There are no super evil, super human, boogyman terrorists. There are only common criminals who hide behind religious extremism.

Obama was never a law professor, he was a visiting lecturer, there is a very significant difference between the two. Another thing he has never been is pragmatic, if he was pragmatic he would never have issued an order to close the place. The first thing any leader needs to learn is to never give an order that you know will not be obeyed. If Obama was half as pragmatic as he is in your imagination he would have known the order to close Gitmo wouldn't be obeyed, and never issued it in the first place.

I don't know why people admire pragmatism so much anyway, it is one of the most despicable traits any human being can have. Ever take the time to wonder what other great decisions were the result of being pragmatic?

I know. No need to nit pick. It was a creative use. see: Prof

Pragmatism is what gave the US Constitution a chance of passing ratification.


next

It was lying.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Too bad repubs don't agree.

It wasn't the Republicans that stopped the closing of Gitmo.

It wasn't the Democrats that opened GITMO.

how stupid this line of debate is

you have nothing of any value to add. you lost in a terrible way. you are too angry and hurt. take some time off. get some fresh air

It was the Democrats that refused to close it, which is what we are discussing.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

What????? *Gasp*
Almost 4 years later and it's not closed yet?
Obama vows to close Guantanamo Bay | NowPublic News Coverage

2008. and what happened? Why is it not closed?

The Democrats refused to follow Obama's lead.

 

[there4eyeM]

After ten years, nobody should be in Gitmo who has not been tried and convicted of a crime. If you have evidence against them, prove it in a court of law. If not, let them go

We are America, we used to set the moral high ground for other nations to follow. Holding men indefinitely without charges and without a fair trial is against our core values

A Nat and Winger have the right idea. And while he's signing things, he can go ahead and override the law that overrides the constitution.

Y'all know whad ahm talkin' 'bout!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Who do you think Obama is, some sort of champion of civil rights?

He is. What has this to do with it? National security and the US Supreme Court has made some rulings.

Reasonable people can disagree, but you being unreasonable are lost here.

If he was a champion of civil rights he would have taken the argument to close Gitmo public and forced his won party to toe the line, he didn't. Unless you are willing to discuss this from a position that lays the blame where it belongs I will treat you like the troll you normally are from now on in this thread.

this thread is troll bait.

it's not serious and neither are you.

delirious is more like it

 

[elvis]

Maybe they Should waterboard Obama until he agrees to close it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Quantum Blowhard is angry




imagine IT calling somebody else a troll in a thread?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

He is. What has this to do with it? National security and the US Supreme Court has made some rulings.

Reasonable people can disagree, but you being unreasonable are lost here.

If he was a champion of civil rights he would have taken the argument to close Gitmo public and forced his won party to toe the line, he didn't. Unless you are willing to discuss this from a position that lays the blame where it belongs I will treat you like the troll you normally are from now on in this thread.

this thread is troll bait.

it's not serious and neither are you.

delirious is more like it

I think rightwinger is pretty serious, he has always said that we should close Gitmo. What evidence do you have that he suddenly turned into you?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Two of those issues are not what most people voted for.

pfft
He promised all of the above and didn't deliver any of it.

Not that enough Americans cared.

Time to wake up. It's not 2008 .. It's 2012

Running for reelection, the President didn't promise what you say he did

The is not the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

"I'm a die hard Yankees fan." < That is.

however

That is the dumbest counter argument ever made, by someone who is not truthmatters.

He lied, but they are old lies, so they don't count.