Ok in a global marketplace how does the USA compete with offshore wages?

[Wiseacre]

I have not seen any workable soloutions to the problem presented in the OP yet.

Our leaders will not talk about it so I guess we do not think aobut it.
Well trained I suppose.

Now you've hurt my feelings, I really tried.

 

[Care4all]

discuss.

Any ideas aside from dropping our wages to match theirs?

less waste, and more productive....if we can produce more per hour per person, then we have a shot at competing against the lower wages....if it takes 2-3 of them in their factory to produce what we can here in our factory, by one person then as said, we have a chance in competing. In general, we are more productive in the USA than most any country in the world....our businesses usually invest in better factory equipment, helping our productivity as well.....then you take the inefficiencies in the chinese factories that are not nearly up to par with the American production lines....AND add in the COST of SHIPPING from china to here with oil rising higher and higher....and our chances of rebuilding our manufacturing sector grow greater....imo

 

[dilloduck]

Competition is bad-----It gives the people low self esteem. We should stop worrying about competing with other countries.

 

[ShackledNation]

Eliminate ObamaCare, FinReg, Drill domestically, eliminate the US Department of Education, FDA, FinReg (yes, thats how bad it is), All of FDR Labor laws, well that's just in my first day in Office

Hmm..

Stupid People.
Rotten Food.
Unbridled corruption in the markets.
Child labor, no worker safety, no overtime, no benefits.

Sounds like the US before FDR..with no middle class.

Paradise..I tells ya..paradise.

Typical response. You are incorrect that without the Dep of Education we would have stupid people (education has not improved much with it, yet costs have skyrocketed) that food will be rotten without the FDA, that corruption would be unbridled, and that there would be child labor and all these other bizarre results. Your argument is that without all this government we will all be helpless. They have brainwashed you well.

 

[ShackledNation]

I have not seen any workable soloutions to the problem presented in the OP yet.

Our leaders will not talk about it so I guess we do not think aobut it.
Well trained I suppose.

I suppose you decided to ignore my minimum wage argument then. Quite a shame. You are, indeed, very well trained to "not talk about it."

 

[Supposn]

discuss.
Any ideas aside from dropping our wages to match theirs?

It is not our global trade but our trade deficits’ that are a significant net detriment to our economy. Trade deficits’ amount of detriment to their nations’ GDPs are significantly larger than the deficits themselves.

I’m a proponent of a proposal to reduce USA’s trade deficit of goods that was first introduced to the Senate in 2006. This simple concept is not simplistic and is worthy of consideration.

The basic concept is for exporters who choose to pay the federal fees to acquire transferable IMPORT Certificates for the assessed value of their goods leaving the USA. Importers would be required to surrender IMPORT Certificates for the assessed value of their goods entering the USA. Surrendered certificates are cancelled.
This may seem as a boon to exporters of USA goods but it’s actually an indirect but effective export subsidy and the trade proposal’s entirely funded by U.S. purchasers of foreign goods.

The version of this trade policy I advocate would exclude values of specifically listed scarce or precious minerals integral to goods from goods assessed values.
This trade policy would significantly decrease USA’s trade deficit of goods and increase the aggregate sum of USA’s imports plus exports and our GDP more than otherwise. The GDP bolsters the median wage.

Wage earning families benefit from cheaper imported goods but every day of every year they’re dependent upon their U.S. wages. Regardless of how small the additions to imports’ prices due to Import Certificates, (unlike tariffs) USA’s assessed imports could never exceed that of our exports. Its desirable U.S. consumers be able to purchase cheap, (but not the absolute cheapest) imported goods. We cannot afford the absolute cheapest.

Refer to: www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com ,
or the topic thread “Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit”
or Google: wikipedia, import certificates

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[expat_panama]

...our trade deficits’ that are a significant net detriment to our economy...

Lot's of people say that trade deficits are bad for the economy as if there'd be more jobs and higher incomes with lower trade deficits. It's a fantasy, and in real life higher incomes and lower unemployment generally track with bigger trade deficits.

The only open question here is why so many people prefer delusional fantasy to real life.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Eliminate ObamaCare, FinReg, Drill domestically, eliminate the US Department of Education, FDA, FinReg (yes, thats how bad it is), All of FDR Labor laws, well that's just in my first day in Office

Hmm..

Stupid People.
Rotten Food.
Unbridled corruption in the markets.
Child labor, no worker safety, no overtime, no benefits.

Sounds like the US before FDR..with no middle class.

Paradise..I tells ya..paradise.

LOL.

Wow.

LOLOL.

That's funny.

Voting For Obama on the "Hope" and "Change" Platform, was pretty stupid.

Every other major civilization: Rome, Greece, the Mayan, the Egyptians, were able to bring water to their people but not the USA prior to the establishment of the FDA. No Sir

LOL.

Call when when you're near planet Earth again, enjoy your stay in Lalaloonyland

 

[Mr Natural]

btw what the heck do we need child labor laws for? the children of today won't hit a lick at any kind of work.

They will if you beat them enough.

 

[Supposn]

We don't necessarily need to, because other countries outsource high paying jobs to the US that amount to more than double the jobs we outsource to them.* Of course, doing so would be advantageous. To make the American unskilled laborer more competitive, the first and most obvious policy would be a repeal of the minimum wage.

Gasp! Did I really say it? I must hate the poor, blacks, and all those who are disadvantaged. Actually, no. Minimum wage functions to hurt the poor and unskilled workers, not help them. If their skill is not worth the minimum wage, they simply don't get a job. Minimum wage in South Africa was implemented to keep blacks out of the workplace for that exact reason. The greatest advantage of the unskilled worker is offering lower wages. Minimum wage destroys that benefit...........

Shackled nation, Libertarians declare many of the same political goals as populists, but Libertarian solutions and proposed policies are too often contrary to those goals.

Your suggestion that the economy could be improved by eliminating the minimum wage is foolish but a Libertarian declaring he’s opposed to discrimination and equally opposed to laws prohibiting discrimination in facilities for public accommodations is even more foolish.

I understand and disagree with the Libertarian viewpoint. The libertarian viewpoint in both cases is that individual freedom be absolutely defended even when it is contrary to other equally valid concepts.

Libertarians defend individual’s right to discriminate even when it interferes with other people’s rights of expecting their access to public accommodations be no less restricted than those of the remaining public.
Libertarians defend employers’ rights to pay lesser wages despite those lower rates’ social and economic detriments to our entire society.

Your describing “The greatest advantage of the unskilled worker is offering lower wages” as an advantage destroyed by minimum wage is classic Libertarian logic. Why should we need public assistance for fewer when we can severely cripple our economy and create greater need for a great many more?

Your message did motivate me to post a new topic entitled “minimum wage”.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

...........................*Insourcing: Millions of High Paying Jobs Replace Those That Cannot Be Saved

Shackled nation, regarding your “in-sourcing” link: I’m a proponent of a U.S. global trade proposal that’s based upon Buffett’s concept.

The nationality of a product does not depend upon the label but rather upon the sources and extent of labor, materials, components or any other goods and facilities that contributed or supported the product’ production.
To that extent, a Toyota N.A. product is no more or less a U.S. product than a Ford or G.M. product.

The trade proposal would be of benefit to producers of U.S. products that compete or aspire to compete with foreign products within or beyond our borders.

Refer to: www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com ,
or the topic thread “Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit”
or to message #26 of this discussion thread
or Google: wikipedia, import certificates

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[ShackledNation]

We don't necessarily need to, because other countries outsource high paying jobs to the US that amount to more than double the jobs we outsource to them.* Of course, doing so would be advantageous. To make the American unskilled laborer more competitive, the first and most obvious policy would be a repeal of the minimum wage.

Gasp! Did I really say it? I must hate the poor, blacks, and all those who are disadvantaged. Actually, no. Minimum wage functions to hurt the poor and unskilled workers, not help them. If their skill is not worth the minimum wage, they simply don't get a job. Minimum wage in South Africa was implemented to keep blacks out of the workplace for that exact reason. The greatest advantage of the unskilled worker is offering lower wages. Minimum wage destroys that benefit...........

Shackled nation, Libertarians declare many of the same political goals as populists, but Libertarian solutions and proposed policies are too often contrary to those goals.

Your suggestion that the economy could be improved by eliminating the minimum wage is foolish but a Libertarian declaring he’s opposed to discrimination and equally opposed to laws prohibiting discrimination in facilities for public accommodations is even more foolish.

My suggestion is that unskilled workers will get more jobs in the United States if minimum wage is lowered. Minimum wage is not a law prohibiting discrimination. There is no hypocrisy. Minimum wage in South Africa was used by racist unions as a tool of discrimination. Because of minimum wage laws, blacks have more difficulty getting out of poverty, and young people have a harder time getting their foot in the door of the business world. One of the reasons I oppose minimum wage is because it inherently discriminates against unskilled workers, blacks, and young people.

I understand and disagree with the Libertarian viewpoint.

Clearly you do not, as your comment below affirms.

The libertarian viewpoint in both cases is that individual freedom be absolutely defended even when it is contrary to other equally valid concepts.

Individual liberty is defended only so long as nobody else's liberties are infringed upon in the process. You make it far more simple than it really is. And

Libertarians defend individual’s right to discriminate even when it interferes with other people’s rights of expecting their access to public accommodations be no less restricted than those of the remaining public.

What does this have to do with my comment about minimum wage law? This is a complete red herring argument. And if rights are interfered with, if you understood the libertarian position at all you would realize such actions are not acceptable.

Libertarians defend employers’ rights to pay lesser wages despite those lower rates’ social and economic detriments to our entire society.

Higher unemployment is a benefit to society? First of all, minimum wage results in unemployment for any worker whose skills are below minimum wage. Second, if minimum wage was ended, people would not suddenly make nothing. People make more than minimum wage today already. There would not be a general drop in everyone's wages, which you seem to be inferring. That is completely false. Third, because minimum wage results in more unemployment, welfare costs are expanded. Rather than hire people to produce, people are paid to do nothing. That is what I call detrimental to society and the economy.

Your describing “The greatest advantage of the unskilled worker is offering lower wages” as an advantage destroyed by minimum wage is classic Libertarian logic. Why should we need public assistance for fewer when we can severely cripple our economy and create greater need for a great many more?

Well, it is a lost advantage. There is not debating that, because I cannot be hired at a lower wage if I offered such a wage rate to an employer. And what are you talking about "public assistance for fewer?" That is so general and unexplained. Where is your evidence that repealing minimum wage will cripple the economy? Your problem is not only that you do not understand the position against minimum wage, but that your premises are all unproven logically or empirically.

Your message did motivate me to post a new topic entitled “minimum wage”.

Respectfully, Supposn

Good.

 

[ShackledNation]

...........................*Insourcing: Millions of High Paying Jobs Replace Those That Cannot Be Saved

Shackled nation, regarding your “in-sourcing” link: I’m a proponent of a U.S. global trade proposal that’s based upon Buffett’s concept.

The nationality of a product does not depend upon the label but rather upon the sources and extent of labor, materials, components or any other goods and facilities that contributed or supported the product’ production.
To that extent, a Toyota N.A. product is no more or less a U.S. product than a Ford or G.M. product.

The trade proposal would be of benefit to producers of U.S. products that compete or aspire to compete with foreign products within or beyond our borders.

Refer to: www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com ,
or the topic thread “Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit”
or to message #26 of this discussion thread
or Google: wikipedia, import certificates

Respectfully, Supposn

You are forgetting the balance of payments. The trade deficit is counteracted by a capital account surplus. More countries invest in the US than the US invests in other countries. What we pay to get imports comes back to us in the form of investment, notably insourcing, a form of foreign direct investment.

 

[uscitizen]

...........................*Insourcing: Millions of High Paying Jobs Replace Those That Cannot Be Saved

Shackled nation, regarding your “in-sourcing” link: I’m a proponent of a U.S. global trade proposal that’s based upon Buffett’s concept.

The nationality of a product does not depend upon the label but rather upon the sources and extent of labor, materials, components or any other goods and facilities that contributed or supported the product’ production.
To that extent, a Toyota N.A. product is no more or less a U.S. product than a Ford or G.M. product.

The trade proposal would be of benefit to producers of U.S. products that compete or aspire to compete with foreign products within or beyond our borders.

Refer to: www.USA-Trade-Deficit.Blogspot.com ,
or the topic thread “Warren Buffett's concept to significantly reduce USA's trade deficit”
or to message #26 of this discussion thread
or Google: wikipedia, import certificates

Respectfully, Supposn

You are forgetting the balance of payments. The trade deficit is counteracted by a capital account surplus. More countries invest in the US than the US invests in other countries. What we pay to get imports comes back to us in the form of investment, notably insourcing, a form of foreign direct investment.

Investing in America aka the selling of America to foreign interests.

 

[expat_panama]

...The trade deficit is counteracted by a capital account surplus. More countries invest in the US than the US invests in other countries. What we pay to get imports comes back to us in the form of investment, notably insourcing, a form of foreign direct investment.

That's all true of course, but by now it's no longer a matter of fact or understanding but of fondly held belief. Ideology can become a false god that defies observation. Back in post #27 we went over the fact that big trade deficits come with low unemployment and cuts in the trade deficit happen with soaring joblessness, but what we got here is belief though choice and not by preference for reality.

 

[uscitizen]

of course we get cuts in the trade defecits with soaring joblessness, people have less money to buy stuff.
And our economy is around 70% driven on what consumers spend.

 

[expat_panama]

of course we get cuts in the trade defecits with soaring joblessness, people have less money to buy stuff. And our economy is around 70% driven on what consumers spend.

--and later when the trade deficit increases we see jobs picking up. You know it and I know it, and so many others live in a fantasy world.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

discuss.

Any ideas aside from dropping our wages to match theirs?

It's the American consumer who has caused this and it's the American consumer who can fix it.

 

[Supposn]

of course we get cuts in the trade defecits with soaring joblessness, people have less money to buy stuff. And our economy is around 70% driven on what consumers spend.

--and later when the trade deficit increases we see jobs picking up. You know it and I know it, and so many others live in a fantasy world.

Expat Panama & USCitizen, you guys are confused by cause and effect.

U.S. trade deficits move along with all tr4ansactions within the U.S. domestic market. When our markets volumes of sales increase or decrease, unless there’s some significant affect due to other factors our trade deficits will move along with our domestic sales.

Trade deficit are detrimental and trade surpluses contribute to their nation’s GDPs.
The trade’s imbalances’ affects upon their nations’ GDPs are understated because goods all individual goods’ prices do not reflect the entire entire goods and service products that contributed or supported the goods’ productions.
Thus although nations’ entire production are reflected within the nations’ GDPs, globally traded goods affect upon the GDP can not entirely be identified and attributed to the nations’ global trade.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[expat_panama]

...Expat Panama & USCitizen, you guys are confused by cause and effect...

When we look closer at where the confusion is, you may want to refocus back from personalities to economics. We saw before that a measurable positive correlation exists between trade deficits and employment, and you point out it's also seen with sales---

...U.S. trade deficits move along with all tr4ansactions within the U.S. domestic market. When our markets volumes of sales increase or decrease, unless there’s some significant affect due to other factors our trade deficits will move along with our domestic sales...

When you said--

...Trade deficit are detrimental and trade surpluses contribute to their nation’s GDPs...

--I think you're talking about how GDP includes exports minus imports (aka 'trade deficit'), and that's true. The BEA's latest numbers show the GDP would have been $15.7T before $562B was subtracted for the trade deficit. Likewise the previous quarter shows the GDP would have been $14.9T before $496B was subtracted for the trade deficit.

So what we have is both GDP and the trade deficit increased together even while one was subtracted from the other. That's because a trade deficit has no affect when it always comes with a capital surplus that's also in the GDP.