Oh Look, ignoring another State

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by RetiredGySgt, May 3, 2008.

  1. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    This is illegal. The Constitution is clear. The legal actions and papers and documents of one State must be honored by another State.

    Further why would they deny the birth certificates? oh wait I know why, they haven't a case unless they make women look like children in order to make false misleading accusations.

    We are not talking about records recorded by this group, we are talking about LEGAL documents proving Birth from another State. Texas is so desperate to violate these peoples rights that they are now denying legal records in a witch hunt.

    Where is Jillian to explain to us how State documents do not in fact have to be honored by another State and GunnyL to remind us that " the ends justify the means".

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080503/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

     
  2. Dogger
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    Dogger Active Member

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    The constitution requires Full Faith and Credit be given to the public records of other states. That means official Utah records, if properly certified, are as admissible in Texas courts as are official Texas records to prove the matter in question.

    That does not mean the records are dispositive of the issue; it only means they are admissible. Evidence that contradicts them can also be admitted, and that creates an issue of fact for the judge to resolve.

    Try this: get a false certificate of your own death, and then sue to collect your life insurance. Will the judge grant you a judgment for the benefits, or will he jail your ass and order the records corrected?
     
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  3. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Except that is NOT what is happening, Texas is refusing to acknowledge LEGAL birth Certificate from Utah, or did you miss the part where these people even petitioned a Governor they know does not like them?

    Texas is fabricating information because they know they have not got a leg to stand on and eventually people will wise up to the fact the State had no business seizing almost 500 supposed children, of whom probably the last 30 to 40 are adults.

    If one is peddling fake birth certificates and other documents they do not petition a Governor they know does not like them for redress. He is going to be able to find out rather quickly if those documents are in fact fake.

    Texas thinks they can just ignore the law because the do not like these people. They are digging a hole, the problem is there are a bunch of people that think " the ends justify the means" in this case.

    False report caused the raid, fabricated information at the raid continued the raid. The State made up a bogus excuse to seize children in no danger, claimed the mothers were victims and tried to get them on their side, when that failed they booted the mothers out, at one point seizing cell phones so they could not call for help.

    The State took over 400 children they claimed were in danger and turned them over to VOLUNTEERS in a stadium with little to no supervision. The children are in danger because of the actions of the State of Texas, even their own doctors admit it.
     
  4. Dogger
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    Dogger Active Member

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    Of course I understood it. That's the way I roll.

    Whether you call them official records or legal records, any government record stands as admissible proof in court. But that does not mean the records cannot be challenged. Fraud and mistakes occur even in legal, official records. Records are only as good as the people providing the information.

    If unchallenged, the Utah birth certificates prove the date and circumstances of the birth. Like DNA tests or fingerprints, such records usually prove a matter with certainity. But they can still be rebutted by other evidence.

    Imagine the mother had named you as the child's father even though you had never met her. She could easily say you were in Iraq, and out of reach. If the doctor saw no reason to dispute her, he would name you as the father and file the paperwork with the State. Would you say that the fact of your paternity could not disputed?
     
  5. Swamp Fox
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    Swamp Fox Active Member

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    Birth certificates are only as good as the people providing the information. In the case of the FLDS, I would wait until DNA comes trhough to see who is who's kid. These people do have a bit of a track record for lying to law enforcement (try 50 years worth).
     
  6. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    More of the same, you guys do not even understand the path you are headed down. Basicly it is fine with you that the State of Texas deny these people their rights and ignore Constitutional law because " they are bad people".

    Let me make a suggestion, if they are so bad, WHY does the State have to make shit up?

    Again for the slow, if they have fake birth certificates and marriage licenses then the LAST place they would go is to the Governor of Utah for help. That State dislikes them more than Texas.

    But feel good all you like, when the State decides YOU are a problem just remember you thought it fine when it was someone you did not like.
     
  7. Ravi
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    Ravi Diamond Member

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    I think they call it bleeding the pig.

    What exactly did they ask the Gov to do?
     
  8. RetiredGySgt
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    Read the article. Texas is claiming all the birth certificates and other documents from Utah are fake , they are not "contesting them" they have refused to include them. The FLDS is asking the Governor of Utah to step in and enforce the rights of his State or risk the precedent that other States can just ignore Utah documents as Texas has done.
     
  9. Ravi
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    Ravi Diamond Member

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    I did read it. It doesn't give the details of exactly what he is asking be done. It sounds as if he is asking the governor of Utah to just give a blanket endorsement of the documents without verifying if they are actually legit or not.
     
  10. Swamp Fox
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    Swamp Fox Active Member

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    When you use the legal system to obtain search warrants and conduct investigations you are not violating anyone's rights. You are using the system the way it was designed to be used. If it turns out, down the road, that errors were made, there is also mechanisms in place for restitution. However, it is highly doubtful that errors were made.

    I haven't seen anything the state of Texas has made up. Could you be more specific?

    Again, for the slower, THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE PERSON PROVIDING THE INFORMATION. Also birth certificates can be changed, as in the case of my kids. My 2nd wife adopted them and the state issued a new birth certificate with her listed as the mother. So, if the lying ass people in the FLDS stated they had adopted the kids, they could change the information on the fucking certificate. Do I have to draw it for you in crayon???????

    This is NOT a case of the state overreaching, this is a case of the state taking appropriate action in a timely and LEGAL fashion.
     

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