Oh Look, ignoring another State

[BrianH]

Yet that does not happen in ANY state except Texas. And after a fake call and in the end the State has as its claim brainwashing.

Once again EVERYONE must have the SAME rights ALL the time.

Everyone does have the same rights. If your neighbor calls and says that you've been marrying off your underage daughters to older men. The state will come, and if they find reason to believe this may be true, they'll take your kids. Simple as that.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Our Consitution gives you rights until you break one of them, then you loose your rights...It's called the Justice System. THey have the right to practice their religion (which is not what this case is about), but the second they endanger someone elses life, or break the law, then they will lose their rights just like anyone else. Under your doctrine, I could start a religion called Molest Little Kids for Jesus and say that it's protected under the 1st Amendment.

Again that has not happened. In fact the State has made NO claims of criminal behavior at all. They have ignored legal binding birth certificates without cause to claim people that are of legal age are not.

Just because you move from one State to another does not somehow invalidate your birth certificate.

The entire claim of the State is that the children are being brainwashed. And they are keeping it in family court because then the families have to prove innocents rather then the State prove guilt.

Go ahead proved us with one person arrested for sex with a minor in this case. The State is making an assumption without bases of facts in evidence.

 

[BrianH]

Again that has not happened. In fact the State has made NO claims of criminal behavior at all. They have ignored legal binding birth certificates without cause to claim people that are of legal age are not.

Just because you move from one State to another does not somehow invalidate your birth certificate.

The entire claim of the State is that the children are being brainwashed. And they are keeping it in family court because then the families have to prove innocents rather then the State prove guilt.

Go ahead proved us with one person arrested for sex with a minor in this case. The State is making an assumption without bases of facts in evidence.

Do you know why they are from different states?? Because Jeff specifically selected them as Great followers and this compound was reserved to for the best worshipers and followers of Jeffs.

THey have numerous underage girls who are pregnant or that have been pregnant. That's illegal activity any way you cut it. Your little rants about them having no evidence is getting old...because it's not a truthful statement.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do you know why they are from different states?? Because Jeff specifically selected them as Great followers and this compound was reserved to for the best worshipers and followers of Jeffs.

THey have numerous underage girls who are pregnant or that have been pregnant. That's illegal activity any way you cut it. Your little rants about them having no evidence is getting old...because it's not a truthful statement.

So name us a person under arrest or being sought for Rape?

And once again the State has not made that claim in court. They have made the claim the children of all ages are brainwashed and in danger because of the "authoritarian" nature of the teachings of the religion.

Do keep up.

 

[BrianH]

So name us a person under arrest or being sought for Rape?

And once again the State has not made that claim in court. They have made the claim the children of all ages are brainwashed and in danger because of the "authoritarian" nature of the teachings of the religion.

Do keep up.

who said anything about being under arrest for rape?? What is against the law, is the intentional placement of children (by the people of this sect) into marriages with older men..as well as the sex involved with minors. Putting your child in a hazardous situation, or situation that is deemed illegal by law, is grounds for having your kids taken from you. Knowing or not, these mothers have allowed their kids to be abused by numerous male members of the church. If members had nothing to hide, there also wouldn't be numerous members who have fled out of state. Hmm...... Once again, this is not about freedom of religion.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

who said anything about being under arrest for rape?? What is against the law, is the intentional placement of children (by the people of this sect) into marriages with older men..as well as the sex involved with minors. Putting your child in a hazardous situation, or situation that is deemed illegal by law, is grounds for having your kids taken from you. Knowing or not, these mothers have allowed their kids to be abused by numerous male members of the church. If members had nothing to hide, there also wouldn't be numerous members who have fled out of state. Hmm...... Once again, this is not about freedom of religion.

Provide evidence any one has fled anywhere. You keep making the claim, back it up. Also provide evidence of all your other claims. Even the State is not making any specific claims. Your last go round with this had you insisting because one member had been convicted of beating children that meant they all did it. Care to try again?

 

[Swamp Fox]

RGS,

Here is a brief summary of FLDS legal troubles

Legal trouble and leadership struggles

The home of FLDS leader Warren Jeffs in Colorado CityIn 2003, the church received increased attention from the state of Utah when police officer Rodney Holm, a member of the church, was convicted of unlawful sexual conduct with a 16- or 17-year-old and one count of bigamy for his marriage to and impregnation of plural wife Ruth Stubbs. The conviction was the first legal action against a member of the FLDS Church since the Short Creek raid.

In November 2003, church member David Allred purchased "as a hunting retreat" the 1,371 acre (5.5 km²) Isaacs Ranch 4 miles northeast of Eldorado, Texas on Schleicher County Road 300 and sent 30 to 40 construction workers from Colorado City–Hildale to begin work on the property. Improvements soon included three 3-story houses—each 8,000 to 10,000 square feet (740 to 930 m²), a concrete plant and a plowed field. After seeing high-profile FLDS Church critic Flora Jessop on the ABC television program Primetime Live on March 4, 2004, concerned Eldorado residents contacted Jessop. She investigated and on March 25, 2004, Jessop held a press conference in Eldorado confirming that the new neighbors were FLDS Church adherents. On May 18, 2004, Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran and his Chief Deputy visited Colorado City, and the FLDS Church officially acknowledged that the Schleicher County property would be a new base for the church. It has been reported in the media that the church has built a temple at the YFZ Ranch, which has been supported by evidence including aerial photographs of a large stone structure (approximately 88 feet wide) in a state of relative completion. A local newspaper, the Eldorado Success, reported that the temple foundation was dedicated January 1, 2005 by Warren Jeffs.[28]

On January 10, 2004, the church suffered a major upheaval when Dan Barlow, the mayor of Colorado City, and about 20 men were excommunicated from the church and stripped of their wives and children (who would be reassigned to other men), and the right to live in the town. The same day two teenage girls reportedly fled the towns with the aid of activist Flora Jessop who advocates the escape of plural wives from polygamy. The two girls, Fawn Broadbent and Fawn Holm, soon found themselves in a broadly publicized dispute over their freedom and custody. After the allegations against their parents were proven false, Flora helped them flee state custody together on February 15, they ended up in Salt Lake City at Fawn Holms brother Carl's house.

In October 2004, Flora Jessop reported that David Allred purchased a 60-acre (240,000 m²) parcel of land near Mancos, Colorado (midway between Cortez and Durango) about the same time he bought the Schleicher County property.[citation needed] Allred told authorities the parcel is to be used as a hunting retreat.[citation needed]

In July 2005 eight men of the church were indicted for sexual contact with minors.[citation needed] All of them turned themselves in to police in Kingman, Arizona within days.[citation needed]

On July 29, 2005, Brent Jeffs filed suit accusing three of his uncles, including Warren Jeffs, of sexually assaulting him when he was a child. The suit also named the FLDS Church as a defendant. On August 10, former FLDS Church member Shem Fischer, Dan Fischer's brother, added the church and Warren Jeffs as defendants to a 2002 lawsuit claiming he was illegally fired because he no longer adhered to the faith. Fischer, who was a salesman for a wooden cabinetry business in Hildale, claims church officials interfered with his relationship with his employer and blacklisted him. The claim against the company was thrown out because he quit rather than being fired.[citation needed]

In July 2005, a half-dozen lost boys who say they were cast out of their homes on the Utah–Arizona border to reduce competition for wives, filed suit against the FLDS Church. "The [boys] have been excommunicated pursuant to that policy and practice and have been cut off from family, friends, benefits, business and employment relationships, and purportedly condemned to eternal damnation," their suit says. "They have become 'lost boys' in the world outside the FLDS community."[citation needed]

On May 7, 2006, the FBI named Warren Jeffs to their Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list on charges of sexual misconduct with minors.

On August 28, 2006, Warren Jeffs was captured on Interstate 15 just north of Las Vegas, Nevada, after a routine traffic stop. He was captured with his brother, Isaac Steve Jeffs, and one of his wives, Naomi Jeffs, both 32. Isaac and Naomi were both released. Jeffs was tried in St. George, Utah and was found guilty by a jury of two counts of being an accomplice to rape.

The mayor of Colorado City, Terrill C. Johnson, was arrested on May 26, 2006 for eight fraudulent vehicle registration charges (providing false registration and title papers eight separate times)—a felony. He was booked in to Purgatory Correctional Facility in Hurricane, Utah and was released after paying the $5,000 bail in cash.[29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

So, here's some examples of how the FLDS work. If you need more proof that this is a group of bad people and that law enforcement is working the way it should, you need to get your head examined (or surgically removed from your ass).

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RGS,

Here is a brief summary of FLDS legal troubles

Legal trouble and leadership struggles

The home of FLDS leader Warren Jeffs in Colorado CityIn 2003, the church received increased attention from the state of Utah when police officer Rodney Holm, a member of the church, was convicted of unlawful sexual conduct with a 16- or 17-year-old and one count of bigamy for his marriage to and impregnation of plural wife Ruth Stubbs. The conviction was the first legal action against a member of the FLDS Church since the Short Creek raid.

In November 2003, church member David Allred purchased "as a hunting retreat" the 1,371 acre (5.5 km²) Isaacs Ranch 4 miles northeast of Eldorado, Texas on Schleicher County Road 300 and sent 30 to 40 construction workers from Colorado City–Hildale to begin work on the property. Improvements soon included three 3-story houses—each 8,000 to 10,000 square feet (740 to 930 m²), a concrete plant and a plowed field. After seeing high-profile FLDS Church critic Flora Jessop on the ABC television program Primetime Live on March 4, 2004, concerned Eldorado residents contacted Jessop. She investigated and on March 25, 2004, Jessop held a press conference in Eldorado confirming that the new neighbors were FLDS Church adherents. On May 18, 2004, Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran and his Chief Deputy visited Colorado City, and the FLDS Church officially acknowledged that the Schleicher County property would be a new base for the church. It has been reported in the media that the church has built a temple at the YFZ Ranch, which has been supported by evidence including aerial photographs of a large stone structure (approximately 88 feet wide) in a state of relative completion. A local newspaper, the Eldorado Success, reported that the temple foundation was dedicated January 1, 2005 by Warren Jeffs.[28]

On January 10, 2004, the church suffered a major upheaval when Dan Barlow, the mayor of Colorado City, and about 20 men were excommunicated from the church and stripped of their wives and children (who would be reassigned to other men), and the right to live in the town. The same day two teenage girls reportedly fled the towns with the aid of activist Flora Jessop who advocates the escape of plural wives from polygamy. The two girls, Fawn Broadbent and Fawn Holm, soon found themselves in a broadly publicized dispute over their freedom and custody. After the allegations against their parents were proven false, Flora helped them flee state custody together on February 15, they ended up in Salt Lake City at Fawn Holms brother Carl's house.

In October 2004, Flora Jessop reported that David Allred purchased a 60-acre (240,000 m²) parcel of land near Mancos, Colorado (midway between Cortez and Durango) about the same time he bought the Schleicher County property.[citation needed] Allred told authorities the parcel is to be used as a hunting retreat.[citation needed]

In July 2005 eight men of the church were indicted for sexual contact with minors.[citation needed] All of them turned themselves in to police in Kingman, Arizona within days.[citation needed]

On July 29, 2005, Brent Jeffs filed suit accusing three of his uncles, including Warren Jeffs, of sexually assaulting him when he was a child. The suit also named the FLDS Church as a defendant. On August 10, former FLDS Church member Shem Fischer, Dan Fischer's brother, added the church and Warren Jeffs as defendants to a 2002 lawsuit claiming he was illegally fired because he no longer adhered to the faith. Fischer, who was a salesman for a wooden cabinetry business in Hildale, claims church officials interfered with his relationship with his employer and blacklisted him. The claim against the company was thrown out because he quit rather than being fired.[citation needed]

In July 2005, a half-dozen lost boys who say they were cast out of their homes on the Utah–Arizona border to reduce competition for wives, filed suit against the FLDS Church. "The [boys] have been excommunicated pursuant to that policy and practice and have been cut off from family, friends, benefits, business and employment relationships, and purportedly condemned to eternal damnation," their suit says. "They have become 'lost boys' in the world outside the FLDS community."[citation needed]

On May 7, 2006, the FBI named Warren Jeffs to their Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list on charges of sexual misconduct with minors.

On August 28, 2006, Warren Jeffs was captured on Interstate 15 just north of Las Vegas, Nevada, after a routine traffic stop. He was captured with his brother, Isaac Steve Jeffs, and one of his wives, Naomi Jeffs, both 32. Isaac and Naomi were both released. Jeffs was tried in St. George, Utah and was found guilty by a jury of two counts of being an accomplice to rape.

The mayor of Colorado City, Terrill C. Johnson, was arrested on May 26, 2006 for eight fraudulent vehicle registration charges (providing false registration and title papers eight separate times)—a felony. He was booked in to Purgatory Correctional Facility in Hurricane, Utah and was released after paying the $5,000 bail in cash.[29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter_Day_Saints

So, here's some examples of how the FLDS work. If you need more proof that this is a group of bad people and that law enforcement is working the way it should, you need to get your head examined (or surgically removed from your ass).

I notice only one conviction listed. And I notice that the only charge against a family was found false. 10000 members and this is the best you have?

Lets get something straight. I despise their "religion" and their personal practices. But they have a legal right to them, just like EVERYONE else.

he worst of the worst MUST have the same rights and protections as our best ALL the time. Or no one has any rights or protections. Look at what you have listed. Buying land and building communal buildings is not now nor has it EVER been illegal. Yet you list it in your list of "bad" things this church has done. You have a laundry list of accusations yet only one conviction. Perhaps you forgot to list all the others?

And yet even if everyone you listed were guilty as charged it does not equate to what you want it to. It does not give any State the right to strip them of legal protection. The State of Texas is so desperate they are ILLEGALLY denying LEGAL Birth Certificates. Seizing adults and declaring them children with absolutely no evidence in a bid to win public support for illegal activities. Seizing children in no danger from their families on bogus charges of " the group is to Authoritarian".

 

[BrianH]

Provide evidence any one has fled anywhere. You keep making the claim, back it up. Also provide evidence of all your other claims. Even the State is not making any specific claims. Your last go round with this had you insisting because one member had been convicted of beating children that meant they all did it. Care to try again?

Dude, you have a one track mind, and a shotty one at that. I never claimed anyone had been convicted of any child beating. Go back and find it and I'll give you a dollar. I said that one of Jessops former wives gave an interview and admitted that the leader of the sect "JESSOP" beat her oldest boy (as an infant) in a procedure called "breaking" where they spank the infant until it begins to cry, then hold it under running water. He continued to process until the infant was too worn out to even cry. I never claimed any conviction. I did claim that many male members were sex offenders--and there are. At least two three off the top of my head are Barlow, Jeffs, and Jessop.

Once again RGS you've completed your journey of stupidity as well as placing magical words in other people's posts. You my friend, are the one who is "trying" and doing a terrible job of it.

This compound was selected for the most faithful of the FLDS followers, which means that they followed Jeffs to the "T". Oh and by the way, JEFFS ripped many of these people from their homes and families from other states often without warning and without goodbyes...so piss on your whole crock-pot of dog turds.