Observation on Abortion Debats

[Derideo_Te]

In most European countries abortion is prohibited after 12 weeks. Even putting in a prohibition at 20 weeks is barbaric.

Please provide a link.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I gave you the link in this thread twice already. I have quoted it numerous times.

I can't find your link. However this is what the GI says about state laws;

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_PLTA.pdf

HIGHLIGHTS:
 41 states prohibit some abortions after a certain point in pregnancy.
 22 states impose prohibitions at fetal viability.
 4 states impose prohibitions in the third trimester.
 15 states impose prohibitions after a certain number of weeks, generally 24 weeks or during the third
trimester; 8 of these states ban abortion at 20 weeks post-fertilization or its equivalent of 22 weeks after
the woman’s last menstrual period on the groundsthat the fetus can feel pain at that point in gestation.
 The circumstances under which later abortions are permitted vary from state to state.
 28 states permit later abortions to preserve the life or health of the woman.
 9 states unconstitutionally ban later abortions, except those performed to save the life or physical health
of the woman.
 4 states unconstitutionally limit later abortionsto those performed to save the life of the woman.
 Some states require the involvement of a second physician when a later-term abortion is performed.
 12 states require that a second physician attend the procedure to treat a fetus if it is born alive in all or
some circumstances.
 9 states unconstitutionally require that a second physician certify that the abortion is medically
necessary in all or some circumstances.

Simply because there is no absolute prohibition against 3rd semester abortions does not automatically mean that they are not regulated in some other manner.

So we are back at this Derideo (that was the link I had used earlier as well).

41 states prohibit abortion after a certain time. By extension, that means that 9 states do not. Period. One statement cannot be true and the other false; that is a logical impossibility. That means there are 9 states where abortion is NOT regulated based on the current stage in pregnancy ergo such abortions are 100 percent legal in those states. There is no way around that simple fact.

Before we go anywhere, lets hammer that out:

41 states regulate abortions based on stages of pregnancy.
9 have NO such regulation and those places third trimester abortions are legal.

If you do not agree with the above then you need to show why YOUR source is not correct in its claims.

You are making an assumption based upon faulty logic. The statement is that "41 states PROHIBIT abortion after a certain time". This does not equate to the remaining 9 states having NO REGULATIONS in place for the same time period. The 28 states that allow for them to occur for the life/health reasons could include those 9 states that don't PROHIBIT abortion. This is why I asked you to provide the names of those states so that your allegation could be verified by looking into what regulations do exist in those states for 3rd trimester abortions.

 

[Vox]

In most European countries abortion is prohibited after 12 weeks. Even putting in a prohibition at 20 weeks is barbaric.

Please provide a link.

Pew Forum: Abortion Laws Around the World

http://www.euro.who.int/en/what-we-...figures-about-abortion-in-the-european-region

 

[Derideo_Te]

In most European countries abortion is prohibited after 12 weeks. Even putting in a prohibition at 20 weeks is barbaric.

Please provide a link.

Pew Forum: Abortion Laws Around the World

That list only mentioned 6 EU nations. It left out Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Switzerland, Monaco, Austria, Hungary, etc, etc. Furthermore only 3 of those nations cited 12 weeks and all of them allowed exceptions after 12 weeks except for Ireland.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

No government has the right to control it's citizen's reproduction. In the US, its unconstitutional to force women to reproduce.

Get the state out of our private lives.

 

[BobPlumb]

The thing about the abortion debate is that people see the issue using two different prisms.

"Pro-choice" -- A fetus or embryo is a chunk of biomass inside the " mother" and it is solely up to the "mother" to decide the value of that biomass.

"Pro-life" --A fetus or embryo is a young human being that has the same value of all other living human beings.

 

[freedombecki]

No government has the right to control it's citizen's reproduction. In the US, its unconstitutional to force women to reproduce.

Get the state out of our private lives.

Your side won't let us. They insist we have to pay for their abortions, sex changes, mood swings, pms, etc.

And with medical information now available to anyone who has classified clearance, as some traitors do, there are no "private lives."

Or did that somehow slip by you, Luddly.

 

[Vox]

Please provide a link.

Pew Forum: Abortion Laws Around the World

That list only mentioned 6 EU nations. It left out Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Switzerland, Monaco, Austria, Hungary, etc, etc. Furthermore only 3 of those nations cited 12 weeks and all of them allowed exceptions after 12 weeks except for Ireland.

poor you, you do not know how to use google

 

[Derideo_Te]

Pew Forum: Abortion Laws Around the World

That list only mentioned 6 EU nations. It left out Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Switzerland, Monaco, Austria, Hungary, etc, etc. Furthermore only 3 of those nations cited 12 weeks and all of them allowed exceptions after 12 weeks except for Ireland.

poor you, you do not know how to use google

You must be at yourself since your allegation that "most European countries abortion is prohibited after 12 weeks" has failed to withstand scrutiny.

 

[jwoodie]

No government has the right to control it's citizen's reproduction. In the US, its unconstitutional to force women to reproduce.

Get the state out of our private lives.

OK, Luddite, let's get SPECIFIC. Exactly WHEN does the government have a right to step in:

A. Umbilical cord cut?

B. Baby takes a breath?

C. Baby completely outside of mother?

D. Baby partially outside mother?

E. Baby's head showing?

C'mon Luddite, STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

 

[Vox]

That list only mentioned 6 EU nations. It left out Finland, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Switzerland, Monaco, Austria, Hungary, etc, etc. Furthermore only 3 of those nations cited 12 weeks and all of them allowed exceptions after 12 weeks except for Ireland.

poor you, you do not know how to use google

You must beat yourself since your allegation that "most European countries abortion is prohibited after 12 weeks" has failed to withstand scrutiny.

most European countries DO ban abortion after 12 weeks.
Some ban it completely.

My links prove exactly that.

If you want to find out on specific countries - google the issue yourself. My links support the statement made by me and Katzdogs

but I've had some time now, so here you have the link to all: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6235557.stm


NOWHERE in Europe is abortion on demand allowed at 20 weeks gestation. NOWHERE.

US is the most barbaric country in the civilized world to allow abortion on demand after the baby is totally feeling pain and is murdered by torture for convenience

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No government has the right to control it's citizen's reproduction. In the US, its unconstitutional to force women to reproduce.

Get the state out of our private lives.

Your side won't let us. They insist we have to pay for their abortions, sex changes, mood swings, pms, etc.

And with medical information now available to anyone who has classified clearance, as some traitors do, there are no "private lives."

Or did that somehow slip by you, Luddly.

We’ll assume you’re unaware this makes no sense whatsoever, and in no way addresses the cited post.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No government has the right to control it's citizen's reproduction. In the US, its unconstitutional to force women to reproduce.

Get the state out of our private lives.

OK, Luddite, let's get SPECIFIC. Exactly WHEN does the government have a right to step in:

A. Umbilical cord cut?

B. Baby takes a breath?

C. Baby completely outside of mother?

D. Baby partially outside mother?

E. Baby's head showing?

C'mon Luddite, STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

As a matter of Constitutional case law abortion may not be prohibited prior to viability:

A federal judge Monday temporarily blocked a North Dakota law banning abortions when a fetal heartbeat is detected, as early as six weeks into a pregnancy.

U.S. District Judge Daniel L. Hovland ruled that the law, which was signed by signed by Gov. Jack Dalrymple in March and was set to take effect on Aug. 1, was “clearly unconstitutional under an unbroken stream of United States Supreme Court authority.” Hovland granted an injunction against the law until the case is settled.

“The State has extended an invitation to an expensive court battle over a law restricting abortions that is a blatant violation of the constitutional guarantees afforded to all women. The United States Supreme Court has unequivocally said that no state may deprive a woman of the choice to terminate her pregnancy at a point prior to viability,” Hovland wrote in his decision.

He further noted that the law would ban nearly 90 percent of all abortions in the state and added that the ban on abortions when a heartbeat is detected “cannot withstand a constitutional challenge in any court of law.”

Federal judge temporarily blocks strict abortion law | The Daily Caller

This law, and many others like it, was clearly enacted in bad faith, where it’s common for women to be unaware of a pregnancy at six weeks, and by the time a woman is indeed aware of her pregnancy, it’s too late to seek an abortion – as no fetus is ‘viable’ after only six weeks.

 

[Derideo_Te]

poor you, you do not know how to use google

You must beat yourself since your allegation that "most European countries abortion is prohibited after 12 weeks" has failed to withstand scrutiny.

most European countries DO ban abortion after 12 weeks.
Some ban it completely.

My links prove exactly that.

If you want to find out on specific countries - google the issue yourself. My links support the statement made by me and Katzdogs

but I've had some time now, so here you have the link to all: BBC News - Europe's abortion rules


NOWHERE in Europe is abortion on demand allowed at 20 weeks gestation. NOWHERE.

US is the most barbaric country in the civilized world to allow abortion on demand after the baby is totally feeling pain and is murdered by torture for convenience

Factually wrong again. Only 2 nations ban abortions and even one of those still allows them for the life and health of the woman. Furthermore all the rest of those nations do NOT ban abortions after 12 weeks. They all have exceptions for life and health reasons.

98.5% of all abortions occur BEFORE 21 weeks and 88% before 13 weeks. All but 1 of those nations provides abortion services and none of them are passing laws that would arbitrarily shut down clinics and prevent poor women from obtaining abortions.

 

[Dragonlady]

98.5% of all abortions occur BEFORE 21 weeks and 88% before 13 weeks. All but 1 of those nations provides abortion services and none of them are passing laws that would arbitrarily shut down clinics and prevent poor women from obtaining abortions.

I think it should also be mentioned that all of these countries where abortion is legal, have government funded medical coverage which pays for women's abortions, except Sweden, and even in Sweden, if the woman can prove financial hardship, the state will fund her abortion.

Only the US has passed a law which prevents tax dollars from being used to pay for abortions.