Obama's class warfare on a Grand Scale

[DiamondDave]

Reagan was a millionaire and a big time double dipper. He received SS payments, and pension payments from the state of California, and plus his salary as president from the U.S. Treasury, and then he complained about "welfare queens" getting money from the government.

And unlike the welfare queens.. Reagan worked his entire life, and earned his compensation and pensions

 

[WillowTree]

And unlike the welfare queens.. Reagan worked his entire life, and earned his compensation and pensions

ssssssssh,, don't disturb their delusions. sssssssshhhh

 

[Chris]

And unlike the welfare queens.. Reagan worked his entire life, and earned his compensation and pensions

The biggest welfare queen is the military.

 

[DiamondDave]

The biggest welfare queen is the military.

You are truly a partisan troll.. deluded beyond belief

 

[jreeves]

Okay, so we lost the war on poverty.

Apparently poverty won because there's more poor people now than ever

So given that, I have a suggestion

I propose that we declare a war on affluence.

Maybe by doing so, affluence will win that war, too, and then we'll have more affluent people than ever.


editec
(thinking different for 58 years and counting)

Reverse policy, kinda like reverse psychology....

Some have already tried to strip their economic systems of incentatives it failed miserably, just ask the communists....

 

[jreeves]

Hmmm...You are correct, PeterS, I was very misinformed.

Next year, I really must employ a tax accountant.

Yep if you can partake in the redistribution of wealth, join right on in...

 

[jreeves]

So is McCain going to eliminate the EITC? If not how is he not guilty of the same class war?

Mccain's plan doesn't call for the same handouts to lower income workers as Obama's. Mccain would rather give more money to the people who fund these programs.

 

[PeterS]

Mccain's plan doesn't call for the same handouts to lower income workers as Obama's. Mccain would rather give more money to the people who fund these programs.

You didn't answer the question. Is McCain proposing the elimination of EITC...or do you really think there is any significance between McCains transference to 35 million and Obamas transference to 40 million? How do you see this as giving money to those who fund the program when, under McCain, they are still funding the program?

 

[jreeves]

You didn't answer the question. Is McCain proposing the elimination of EITC...or do you really think there is any significance between McCains transference to 35 million and Obamas transference to 40 million? How do you see this as giving money to those who fund the program when, under McCain, they are still funding the program?

Mccain isn't calling for the elimination of EITC. LOL...under Mccain's plan he would redistribute $19 more dollars to the lowest income earners while Obama would handout over $567 to the lowest income earners.....That's a big difference in philosophies my friend. While Mccain would give the 112-161K a year tax bracket, $410 more than Obama.

 

[PeterS]

Mccain isn't calling for the elimination of EITC. LOL...under Mccain's plan he would redistribute $19 more dollars to the lowest income earners while Obama would handout over $567 to the lowest income earners.....That's a big difference in philosophies my friend. While Mccain would give the 112-161K a year tax bracket, $410 more than Obama.

EITC is means tested plus indexed for inflation and projected to hit 30M this year and 35 by McCains first budget which would put McCains budget for EITC at 56B to 70B. Under Obamas plan you can add 19B (based on an average $300 increase plus 5M more eligible) to those numbers. Under either plan you are talking about the largest single EITC transference in history.

 

[jreeves]

EITC is means tested plus indexed for inflation and projected to hit 30M this year and 35 by McCains first budget which would put McCains budget for EITC at 56B to 70B. Under Obamas plan you can add 19B (based on an average $300 increase plus 5M more eligible) to those numbers. Under either plan you are talking about the largest single EITC transference in history.

$19 for Mccain, Obama though would hand out over $567 to the low income that don't pay any federal income taxes.
Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will increase the number of working parents eligible for EITC benefits, increase the benefits available to parents who support their children through child support payments, increase benefits for families with three or more children, and reduce the EITC marriage penalty, which hurts low-income families.

Provide Tax Relief: Obama and Biden will provide all low and middle-income workers a $500 Making Work Pay tax credit to offset the payroll tax those workers pay in every paycheck. Obama and Biden will also eliminate taxes for seniors making under $50,000 per year.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

Those proposals along with his general tax policy, is redistribution of income on a grand scale.
That's all you need to know right there....

 

[editec]

Reverse policy, kinda like reverse psychology....

Some have already tried to strip their economic systems of incentatives it failed miserably, just ask the communists....

So...it's working!

BWA HA!...HA HA!... HA! HA! HA!

If we just keep punishing the affluent eventually we'll ALL be rich!

 

[Care4all]

Mccain's plan doesn't call for the same handouts to lower income workers as Obama's. Mccain would rather give more money to the people who fund these programs.

JR,
There are many things in society that the wealthy benefit from where those with less do not, or certainly do not to the same extent.

Budgets for all of our regulators...the SEC as example....until this time or less than a handful of times, making our stock markets and corporations secure, benefitted those with money, while not doing the same for those who have less....

and our gvt relationship with the Fed, and Fannie Mae and all of our regulated Banks does more for the wealthiest than those with less....Our laws that change Bankruptcy conditions that the wealthiest lobbied for, benefit them over we the people,

and even Eminent Domain has come in and taken from the everyday Jo for some business center or shopping center or walmart... much is stacked against us while benefiting the wealthy....

Oh and for goodness sakes, even our supposed Free Trade Agreements/Treaties, benefit the huge Corps or the wealthiest within them, and take away from we the people....

And now this Fiasco, where the financial institutions and mortgage companies that made some SERIOUSLY POOR and UNSOUND BUSINESS calculations are being helped out with over a trillion dollars and counting,

and the Halliburtons etc of the world that got billions and wasted millions upon millions of our tax dollars thru fraud and many other military industrial complex coups that made Corps or businesses or the wealthiest within them, over the years richer than rich....this didn't benefit that peon at the bottom of our foodchain, who was a chamber maid in a motel getting paid near nothing for their 40 hours of work....

Did you know that nearly 60% of the people that work and are required to file income taxes use the short form and have no extra deductions from itemizing as those with more do, which reduces their tax rate to lower than the bracket they begin in...there are income tax deductions and regulations 20 feet high if stacked upon eachother on normal 8.5 by 11'' paper....

All of those deductions and rules are for the benefit of those who have more than the 60% of americans who file the short 1040....those deductions were put in there for the wealthiest to reduce their taxes, and YES the middle class filing long forms do benefit as well from it, but very little of it....

Also reeves, those making over $100k do not contribute towards payroll taxes for all that they make over $100 k, while those making less have 13% of their ENTIRE salaries taxed and congress is using $200 billion of SS surplus taxes for their income tax budget...

Another thing that you must consider is that those at the bottom are NOT GETTING ANYTHING that those at the top are not getting.

Do you understand that if someone makes $15k combined with his wife at the bottom and ends up paying nothing in income tax for that 15k earned because of the automatic deductions for him and his wife, the wealthiest person or even you and me, ALSO PAY NOTHING IN INCOME TAX for that FIRST $15K because we as well get this deduction!!!!

I used to think like you...especially when i was working along with my husband and we were well in to the 6 figures in income....and we had not bought our first home yet so were still filing the short form ourselves, we were paying more in taxes than what we earn in income a year now, ( due to me retiring, hubby losing jobs, relocating and other things)!!!

Though we never complained about paying a heck of alot in taxes during that period, because we felt like we had more money than we ever expected to make very quickly...two lucky breaks landing one with a job that paid $60k more and the other with a job that paid $30k more, in one years time....our lifestyle was still as renters, living on the cheap and we really never caught up with our income, when it came to spending so the taxes did not hurt.

HOWEVER, now that things have changed drastically for us due to circumstance and some personal choices admittingly, and we don't even earn right now, what we used to pay yearly in taxes for a near ten -15year period, we have a different view on the whole topic....if we qualified for any help, like heating oil help, WE WOULD TAKE IT, IN A HEARTBEAT, with no GUILT of doing such, because we know how much we gave in taxes yearly for years upon years, and honestly could use the help...

Now it just so happens, we make TOO MUCH to qualify and we can't get any help, which we think stinks....cuz we really could use some, and we wondered when would some of the taxes we paid year after year as upper middle class people, would ever come back to us...and help us when we honestly could use the help. And this is not something that we would ever expect, or be in this position of looking for a handout, we know that by next year, we will more than likely be in a much better position than we are right now and be on our way to financial freedom again...none the less, there is no guilt feelings on our part to expect the gvt to be there for us, when we are in need....though my one consolation is that there are those trying to get along with much less and if money is limited, which i recognize it is, those that made even less than matt and i this past year, do need it more than us, especially since we own our home and have no mortgage or rent payment to deal with like they probably have...and we do have other resources that could be hit, with penalty though....

I mentioned all of this because i believe i had read one of your posts jabbing editec for needing a cpa to make sure he gets in handouts what he's eligible for...i think you were wrong with that, especially if you have read other threads where editec mentioned where his name came from which was from a business he had owned at one time in Connecticut....I can guarantee you, he paid a ton in taxes at the time and probably feels the same way as Matt and I do right now on needing a little help, to get us up and going again.

You thinking that those at the very top are not benefitting from our system or taxes the way that those at the very bottom do is just wrong, imo.

care

 

[rayboyusmc]

The real beginning of class warfare in the US.

TRICKLE DOWN THEORY

Thanks Ronnie

 

[jreeves]

So...it's working!
BWA HA!...HA HA!... HA! HA! HA!

If we just keep punishing the affluent eventually we'll ALL be rich!

Don't think so, the war on poverty, has made the rich, richer and the poor, poorer.

 

[jreeves]

JR,
There are many things in society that the wealthy benefit from where those with less do not, or certainly do not to the same extent.

Budgets for all of our regulators...the SEC as example....until this time or less than a handful of times, making our stock markets and corporations secure, benefitted those with money, while not doing the same for those who have less....

and our gvt relationship with the Fed, and Fannie Mae and all of our regulated Banks does more for the wealthiest than those with less....Our laws that change Bankruptcy conditions that the wealthiest lobbied for, benefit them over we the people,

and even Eminent Domain has come in and taken from the everyday Jo for some business center or shopping center or walmart... much is stacked against us while benefiting the wealthy....

Oh and for goodness sakes, even our supposed Free Trade Agreements/Treaties, benefit the huge Corps or the wealthiest within them, and take away from we the people....

And now this Fiasco, where the financial institutions and mortgage companies that made some SERIOUSLY POOR and UNSOUND BUSINESS calculations are being helped out with over a trillion dollars and counting,

and the Halliburtons etc of the world that got billions and wasted millions upon millions of our tax dollars thru fraud and many other military industrial complex coups that made Corps or businesses or the wealthiest within them, over the years richer than rich....this didn't benefit that peon at the bottom of our foodchain, who was a chamber maid in a motel getting paid near nothing for their 40 hours of work....

Did you know that nearly 60% of the people that work and are required to file income taxes use the short form and have no extra deductions from itemizing as those with more do, which reduces their tax rate to lower than the bracket they begin in...there are income tax deductions and regulations 20 feet high if stacked upon eachother on normal 8.5 by 11'' paper....

All of those deductions and rules are for the benefit of those who have more than the 60% of americans who file the short 1040....those deductions were put in there for the wealthiest to reduce their taxes, and YES the middle class filing long forms do benefit as well from it, but very little of it....

Also reeves, those making over $100k do not contribute towards payroll taxes for all that they make over $100 k, while those making less have 13% of their ENTIRE salaries taxed and congress is using $200 billion of SS surplus taxes for their income tax budget...

Another thing that you must consider is that those at the bottom are NOT GETTING ANYTHING that those at the top are not getting.

Do you understand that if someone makes $15k combined with his wife at the bottom and ends up paying nothing in income tax for that 15k earned because of the automatic deductions for him and his wife, the wealthiest person or even you and me, ALSO PAY NOTHING IN INCOME TAX for that FIRST $15K because we as well get this deduction!!!!

I used to think like you...especially when i was working along with my husband and we were well in to the 6 figures in income....and we had not bought our first home yet so were still filing the short form ourselves, we were paying more in taxes than what we earn in income a year now, ( due to me retiring, hubby losing jobs, relocating and other things)!!!

Though we never complained about paying a heck of alot in taxes during that period, because we felt like we had more money than we ever expected to make very quickly...two lucky breaks landing one with a job that paid $60k more and the other with a job that paid $30k more, in one years time....our lifestyle was still as renters, living on the cheap and we really never caught up with our income, when it came to spending so the taxes did not hurt.

HOWEVER, now that things have changed drastically for us due to circumstance and some personal choices admittingly, and we don't even earn right now, what we used to pay yearly in taxes for a near ten -15year period, we have a different view on the whole topic....if we qualified for any help, like heating oil help, WE WOULD TAKE IT, IN A HEARTBEAT, with no GUILT of doing such, because we know how much we gave in taxes yearly for years upon years, and honestly could use the help...

Now it just so happens, we make TOO MUCH to qualify and we can't get any help, which we think stinks....cuz we really could use some, and we wondered when would some of the taxes we paid year after year as upper middle class people, would ever come back to us...and help us when we honestly could use the help. And this is not something that we would ever expect, or be in this position of looking for a handout, we know that by next year, we will more than likely be in a much better position than we are right now and be on our way to financial freedom again...none the less, there is no guilt feelings on our part to expect the gvt to be there for us, when we are in need....though my one consolation is that there are those trying to get along with much less and if money is limited, which i recognize it is, those that made even less than matt and i this past year, do need it more than us, especially since we own our home and have no mortgage or rent payment to deal with like they probably have...and we do have other resources that could be hit, with penalty though....

I mentioned all of this because i believe i had read one of your posts jabbing editec for needing a cpa to make sure he gets in handouts what he's eligible for...i think you were wrong with that, especially if you have read other threads where editec mentioned where his name came from which was from a business he had owned at one time in Connecticut....I can guarantee you, he paid a ton in taxes at the time and probably feels the same way as Matt and I do right now on needing a little help, to get us up and going again.

You thinking that those at the very top are not benefitting from our system or taxes the way that those at the very bottom do is just wrong, imo.

care

The Tax Foundation - New Data: Top 1% Pay Greater Dollar Amount in Income Taxes to Federal Government than Bottom 90%
The table above shows that the top-earning 25 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $62,068) earned 67.5 percent of nation's income, but they paid more than four out of every five dollars collected by the federal income tax (86 percent). The top 1 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned approximately 21.2 percent of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.4 percent of all federal income taxes. That means the top 1 percent of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95 percent of tax returns.

The IRS data also shows increases in individual incomes across all income groups. Just as the highest earners lost the biggest percentage of their incomes during the recession of 2001, so they have prospered the most as the economy has continued to rebound. In sum, between 2000 and 2005, pre-tax income for the top 1 percent group grew by 19.1 percent. In the same time period, pre-tax income for the bottom 50 percent increased by 15.5 percent.

This pattern of income loss and growth at the top of the income spectrum is the same during every recession and recovery. The net result has also been a sharp rise in federal government tax revenue from 2003-2005 compared to previous years.

Including all tax returns that had a positive AGI, those taxpayers with an AGI of $145,283 or more in 2005 constituted the nation's top 5 percent of earners. To break into the top 1 percent, a tax return had to have an AGI of $364,657 or more. These numbers are up significantly from 2003 when the equivalent thresholds were $130,080 and $295,495. Top incomes in 2005 are also continuing to surpass the peak they reached in 2000. At the height of the boom and bubble, $313,469 was the threshold to break into the top 1 percent, and then it fell to $285,424 in 2002 only to finally recover fully last year.

The IRS data includes all of the 132.6 million tax returns filed in 2005 that had a positive AGI, not just the returns from people who earn enough to owe taxes. From other IRS data, we can see that 90.6 million of the tax returns came from people who paid taxes into the Treasury. That leaves 42 million tax returns filed by people with positive AGI who used exemptions, deductions and tax credits to completely wipe out their federal income tax liability. Not only did they get back every dollar that the federal government withheld from their paychecks during 2005; but some even received more back from the IRS. This is a result of refundable tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit, which are not included in the aggregate percentile data here.



I understand being low income, I was raised by parents who had very little money. I took responsibility for my own future; I have worked two jobs and worked full time while attending college at night. So I understand perfectly that is difficult to raise your standard of living. But all too often in this country people feel a sense of entitlement from the government. They don't try and pull themselves up. When the top 50% of wage earners pay nearly 97% of all federal income taxes, it isn't the time to shift all of the responsibility to fund our country to this sect of the country. People will never pull themselves up if they are expecting the government to take care of them. Therefore it is imperative to provide incentatives for working, not simply hand out tax money.

 

[Care4all]

JR
how much the top 1% pay of our income tax, which is about 1 trillion of income tax collected in a year in total, is only a little more than a THIRD of our annual budget spending of nearing 3 TRILLION.....

AND what these people pay of our total income tax is NOT important and has NOTHING to do with what i was saying above....you missed my point entirely....

IT is what these people can earn and make a year because of the laws, and regulations, and oversight of the markets or lack there of, and because of tax laws put in place for them, and bankruptcy laws put in place for them, and bailouts for them, and free leases of our land to them, and eminent domain now, being used for them, and offshore tax breaks put in to law for them and on and on and on and on jr.....

THOSE THINGS have made them wealthier....much more so than the average jo living on edge...those things are layed out in their favor to continue to prosper....while in many cases, reducing our share of the pie.....shoot, even when the wealthiest fail, we still bail them out.

the wealth the wealthiest have gained ...came thru hard work for some i am certain....BUT what our government has GIVEN THEM has MORE THAN COMPENSATED for their income tax share.....

i guess we will have to agree to disagree at this point!

care

 

[Chris]

The BBC reported startling economic equality figures in a recent documentary: the top 200 wealthiest people in the world control more wealth than the bottom 4 billion. But what is more striking to many is a close look at the economic inequality in the homeland of the "American Dream." The United States is the most economically stratified society in the western world. As THE WALL STREET JOURNAL reported, a recent study found that the top .01% or 14,000 American families hold 22.2% of wealth — the bottom 90%, or over 133 million families, just 4% of the nation's wealth.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/06132008/profile2.html

 

[dilloduck]

The BBC reported startling economic equality figures in a recent documentary: the top 200 wealthiest people in the world control more wealth than the bottom 4 billion. But what is more striking to many is a close look at the economic inequality in the homeland of the "American Dream." The United States is the most economically stratified society in the western world. As THE WALL STREET JOURNAL reported, a recent study found that the top .01% or 14,000 American families hold 22.2% of wealth — the bottom 90%, or over 133 million families, just 4% of the nation's wealth.

Bill Moyers Journal . Steve Fraser on Gilded Ages | PBS

and you point is ?

 

[Chris]

and you point is ?

Soak the rich.