ObamaCare- Mandate is Constitutional as a Tax, etc.

[The Infidel]

President Obama's Pledge Never to Raise Taxes on Anyone Making Less Than $250,000 a Year - YouTube


Obama Goes Toe-To-Toe With Stephanopoulos On "Tax Increases" - YouTube

Obama lied. The SCOTUS just upheld the largest Tax Increase in our history. What's next? What a Pandora's box they just opened.

What I am finding comical is all the gloat threads..... but we will have the last laugh in November.

 

[peach174]

That is why he wrote a narrow opinion. This was a smart move by Roberts. This gives Obama and progressives a short celebration until reality sets in. By ruling the mandate is a tax, he gave the republicans legal grounds to repeal it because as everyone knows, any tax can be repealed. Lol. This is a victory for republicans. Roberts didn't want to go down in history as the guy who took away the opportunity for tens of millions of Americans to not be able to get Health Insurance. He just passed the mandate back to Congress in the form of a tax so they can repeal it under that option.

Maybe I am missing something. It looks to me like they also Decided that States can Opt out of Obamacare, Which Effectively Makes the Bill meaningless. I mean 26 states sued over it, If they can opt out, I assume they will.

It means they remain in Medicaid, but do not have to accept the expanded Medicaid requirements without losing the whole package. The taxing portions is constitutional, and the rest of the provisions survived.

That is what the whole thing was about. That those who don't have insurance would be put on Medicare and Medicaid, when 26 or more states opt out of that expansion, the 30 or 40 million uninsured will still have no insurance. The funding for the expansion goes away and the Health Care Act falls becasue it will not have the money needed for it.

 

[Wiseacre]

TAx increase for all except the leeches. Yay team.

You fucking idiot. It's the leeches who'll be forced to purchase health insurance. Are you really this fucking stupid?

You lie sir. The leeches will be exempt, up to a certtain income level and including the unemployed. Christ on a crutch, who the fuck is ever going to want a job?

 

[The T]

President Obama's Pledge Never to Raise Taxes on Anyone Making Less Than $250,000 a Year - YouTube


Obama Goes Toe-To-Toe With Stephanopoulos On "Tax Increases" - YouTube

Obama lied. The SCOTUS just upheld the largest Tax Increase in our history. What's next? What a Pandora's box they just opened.

What I am finding comical is all the gloat threads..... but we will have the last laugh in November.

Agreed All the more reason to vote Obama and the Democrats out for this.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Dude - it IS a tax, wouldn't be consitutional otherwise.

BTW - I am also against a mandate requiring the purchase of pink slippers, should one pass Congress and be signed by Obama. Apparently they can do that now, there's absolutely no limit on what Congress can tax you on. Don't know why any American should be pleased about that.

What he said...

 

[Inthemiddle]

Exactly! My wife died at 27 from leukemia. We had excellent coverage and STILL had bills totaling close to $700,000 that WEREN'T covered by insurance. It's amazing how short sighted people can be.

I'm sorry about your wife. But who's the short sighted one, here? You saw some insurance, thought "Hey, this will pay for my health and stuff." Yet you didn't realize that even after paying all that money for it, you still couldn't afford your medical bills.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

President Obama's Pledge Never to Raise Taxes on Anyone Making Less Than $250,000 a Year - YouTube


Obama Goes Toe-To-Toe With Stephanopoulos On "Tax Increases" - YouTube

Obama lied. The SCOTUS just upheld the largest Tax Increase in our history. What's next? What a Pandora's box they just opened.

What I am finding comical is all the gloat threads..... but we will have the last laugh in November.

no repeal, no way.

spin, spin, spin...


[youtube]W4ga_M5Zdn4[/youtube]

 

[The T]

But he flat out lied to us man, he looked square intot he camera talking to Stephanoupolis and said unequivically that the mandate was not a tax. And he said he waould not raise taxes on those families making under $250k. And we now know that both of these are not true. Congrats on your victory, you must be so proud.

The mandate is not a tax. The tax only comes into play if you choose not to be responsible and carry insurance. From all the arguments I hear about "forcing people to buy something they don't want", I must assume those arguing against it believe that those of us who pay for insurance should cover the costs of those who don't, and if you are arguing against it, you must be one of the leaches who want everyone else to cover you.

If you are paying for insurance, it would stand to reason that you would prefer everyone pay for their own care rather than having to subsidize them by paying higher premiums. For anyone who talks self reliance and financial responsibility, I find it laughable that you would be against the mandate. It's not like the mandate is requiring you to buy pink slippers.

Dude - it IS a tax, wouldn't be consitutional otherwise.

" I must assume those arguing against it believe that those of us who pay for insurance should cover the costs of those who don't, and if you are arguing against it, you must be one of the leaches who want everyone else to cover you. "

This is the most twisted logic I've ever seen. It is in fact the lib/dems who want everyone else to cover you. Get it through your thick head - we don't have the fucking money to pay for ObamaCare.

BTW - I am also against a mandate requiring the purchase of pink slippers, should one pass Congress and be signed by Obama. Apparently they can do that now, there's absolutely no limit on what Congress can tax you on. Don't know why any American should be pleased about that.

Correct. The government may now compel you to purchase ANYTHING under the guise of a TAX.

Obama lied. The Democrats lied.

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly! My wife died at 27 from leukemia. We had excellent coverage and STILL had bills totaling close to $700,000 that WEREN'T covered by insurance. It's amazing how short sighted people can be.

I'm sorry about your wife. But who's the short sighted one, here? You saw some insurance, thought "Hey, this will pay for my health and stuff." Yet you didn't realize that even after paying all that money for it, you still couldn't afford your medical bills.

Very few industrialized countries allow their people to go bankrupt because of illness. US is one of them

 

[iamwhatiseem]

This will help Romney immensely...only 39% of Americans are for Obamacare as it is.

 

[Foxfyre]

Once more I would like to issue my personal opinion that Ii adore the mod squad and am not second guessing them, but I HATE the merger policy. Merging what is essentially a schoolyard taunt thread with a more serious one completely screws up the flow of the discussion and prohbits ability to really build a rational argument. But oh well. I am one opinion. And that's my whine for the day.

Again, the fact that the Supreme Court made its ruling on the strength of the mandate being a tax and the opinion of the court that Congress has unlimited ability to tax and spend should be an eye opener to everybody. Most especially when Fearless Leader had made such a huge deal that the mandate was NOT A TAX when he was selling this to us in 2009. Then his lawyers made him a huge liar by arguing for the mandate on the basis that it was a tax.

The mandate under the Commerce Clause is unconstitutional. The mandate as a tax is okay. It is not necessarily good policy or any kind of good deal for the American people, but it is Constitutional as a tax. In fact it is the largest tax ever imposed on a people in the history of the world.

I am going to post this again as a reminder to all of us to pay attention when an elected leader tells us something that our gut tells us is a dishonest hard sell:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_-qh9XDbgE]OBAMA MANDITORY TAX ON HEALTH CARE IS NOT A TAX - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Flopper]

Right now I bet all you wanabe conservatives are wishing had supported Paul... Now you have to pray Mitt actually follows through with repealing Obamacare if he can even get elected seeing that he is an incredibly weak candidate who supported Obamacare on a federal level.

The only way the law can be repealed and replaced is if Republican sweep both houses of Congress and the White House. Even if that happened, Republicans would have less than 12 months to work out a replacement for ACA. In 2014 the following goes into effect.

No Discrimination Due to Pre-Existing Conditions or Gender.
Eliminating Annual Limits on Insurance Coverage
Coverage for Individuals Participating in Clinical Trials
Tax credits to help defray insurance cost for the working poor
Establishing Health Insurance Exchanges
Small Business Tax Credits
Increasing Access to Medicaid which will provide coverage for tens of millions
Requirement to buy insurance
Option for employees to use healthcare exchanges to buy insurance instead of employee group plans.

It would be to late in 2013 for a Republican Congress to do anything other than make minor changes.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/healthreform/timeline

 

[Liability]

In the first hour after the decision, Romney's on line campaign donations went up by $300,000 and is still rising.

I had tossed out some of his campaign literature (i.e., solicitations for $ help).

No more. I will send him some bucks, now.

I just hope that he does grasp the stupidity of this Act and works with the GOP majority to gut it ASAP after he is inaugurated.

 

[Liability]

Right now I bet all you wanabe conservatives are wishing had supported Paul... Now you have to pray Mitt actually follows through with repealing Obamacare if he can even get elected seeing that he is an incredibly weak candidate who supported Obamacare on a federal level.

The only way the law can be repealed and replaced is if Republican sweep both houses of Congress and the White House. Even if that happened, Republicans would have less than 12 months to work out a replacement for ACA. In 2014 the following goes into effect.

No Discrimination Due to Pre-Existing Conditions or Gender.
Eliminating Annual Limits on Insurance Coverage
Coverage for Individuals Participating in Clinical Trials
Tax credits to help defray insurance cost for the working poor
Establishing Health Insurance Exchanges
Small Business Tax Credits
Increasing Access to Medicaid which will provide coverage for tens of millions
Requirement to buy insurance
Option for employees to use healthcare exchanges to buy insurance instead of employee group plans.

It would be to late in 2013 for a Republican Congress to do anything other than make minor changes.

The Affordable Care Act - Implementation Timeline | The White House

A House vote for repeal is set for July 9.

 

[jillian]

TAx increase for all except the leeches. Yay team.

Which is you.

i know.. isn't that awesome... i wonder how much she gets in social security and medicare every year?

but as long as she's covered, right?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

In the first hour after the decision, Romney's on line campaign donations went up by $300,000 and is still rising.

I had tossed out some of his campaign literature (i.e., solicitations for $ help).

No more. I will send him some bucks, now.

I just hope that he does grasp the stupidity of this Act and works with the GOP majority to gut it ASAP after he is inaugurated.

good! go for broke!


there is no way the GOP will repeal the ACA. It's all about fleecing the hoi polloi --- again!

try taking away the health insurance people are now getting.

 

[jillian]

Right now I bet all you wanabe conservatives are wishing had supported Paul... Now you have to pray Mitt actually follows through with repealing Obamacare if he can even get elected seeing that he is an incredibly weak candidate who supported Obamacare on a federal level.

The only way the law can be repealed and replaced is if Republican sweep both houses of Congress and the White House. Even if that happened, Republicans would have less than 12 months to work out a replacement for ACA. In 2014 the following goes into effect.

No Discrimination Due to Pre-Existing Conditions or Gender.
Eliminating Annual Limits on Insurance Coverage
Coverage for Individuals Participating in Clinical Trials
Tax credits to help defray insurance cost for the working poor
Establishing Health Insurance Exchanges
Small Business Tax Credits
Increasing Access to Medicaid which will provide coverage for tens of millions
Requirement to buy insurance
Option for employees to use healthcare exchanges to buy insurance instead of employee group plans.

It would be to late in 2013 for a Republican Congress to do anything other than make minor changes.

The Affordable Care Act - Implementation Timeline | The White House

A House vote for repeal is set for July 9.

you think they're getting 2/3 vote to repeal in both the house and senate?

really?

didn't the wackadoodles try this in february, 2011?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I hear how The Affordable Care Act is a “job killing bill” and “it’s a government takeover of health care”, and it makes me question my support. I don’t really know what “job killing bill” means, since I think it will help create jobs and allow more people to retire early because they can get health insurance on their own. I know it is not a “government takeover” because it leaves insurance companies in charge of paying people’s medical bills – and collecting billions of dollars in premiums – and making very good profits.

FOCUS: Corporate Media's War on Obamacare

 

[Liability]

The only way the law can be repealed and replaced is if Republican sweep both houses of Congress and the White House. Even if that happened, Republicans would have less than 12 months to work out a replacement for ACA. In 2014 the following goes into effect.

No Discrimination Due to Pre-Existing Conditions or Gender.
Eliminating Annual Limits on Insurance Coverage
Coverage for Individuals Participating in Clinical Trials
Tax credits to help defray insurance cost for the working poor
Establishing Health Insurance Exchanges
Small Business Tax Credits
Increasing Access to Medicaid which will provide coverage for tens of millions
Requirement to buy insurance
Option for employees to use healthcare exchanges to buy insurance instead of employee group plans.

It would be to late in 2013 for a Republican Congress to do anything other than make minor changes.

The Affordable Care Act - Implementation Timeline | The White House

A House vote for repeal is set for July 9.

you think they're getting 2/3 vote to repeal in both the house and senate?

really?

didn't the wackadoodles try this in february, 2011?

If there is a new President, then why would we need a 2/3rd's repeal vote?

 

[Inthemiddle]

But he flat out lied to us man, he looked square intot he camera talking to Stephanoupolis and said unequivically that the mandate was not a tax. And he said he waould not raise taxes on those families making under $250k. And we now know that both of these are not true. Congrats on your victory, you must be so proud.

Would you quit your whining? "B-b, but he lied to us, boo hoo, weeeeeh, George Stephanopoulos, it's so unfair." This is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about. Trying to manufacture faux outrage is NOT going to unseat Obama from the White House.

Oh, and it's not "my" victory. Pay attention.