Obama willing to go "more than half-way" on Florida and Michigan

[AllieBaba]

do you want to stifle my free speech? do you want to stifle my questions? what is it to you if i care?

Only CERTAIN people are allowed freedom of speech. Only certain people have opinions which matter....

 

[Larkinn]

Only CERTAIN people are allowed freedom of speech. Only certain people have opinions which matter....

Apparently in you and Yurts world, those people wouldn't include Jillian. She has the freedom of speech to question Yurts speech.

 

[Jon]

The voters decided who their state government would be. They must abide by the state governments decisions, and fuckups.

How silly. This argument of yours is so paper thin, to claim that the people are to suffer for the actions of the elected officials. Do you realize how blatantly ridiculous it is to claim: "Tough shit, you shouldn't have voted for these people."

Citizens of any state have the right to make their voices heard. They voted on the day they were told to vote, and thus they should not be punished.

Furthermore, if we're talking about following the rules, it's easy. The rules now state that Florida and Michigan don't count. Rules can be changed, and they will be. When the rules change, it should be said that the delegates will be seated according to the number of votes they received in each state. In Florida, Clinton received 50% of the vote, Obama received 33%, and Edwards received 14%. Seat these delegates accordingly, and allow Edwards's delegates to vote their will. In Michigan, Clinton received 55% of the vote, 44% voted undecided, Kuchinich received 4%, Gravel received 0%, Obama received 0%, and Edwards received 0%. So seat 55% of the delegates for Clinton, seat 4% for Kuchinich and allow them to vote their will, seat 0% of Obama, Edwards, and Gravel, and make a decision on what to do with the other 44%. After all, that's how they would have been divided anyway.

 

[Larkinn]

How silly. This argument of yours is so paper thin, to claim that the people are to suffer for the actions of the elected officials. Do you realize how blatantly ridiculous it is to claim: "Tough shit, you shouldn't have voted for these people."

Umm, its called a Republic. You don't like how your Senator, House rep, State reps do? Vote them out. You suffer for their actions until you vote them out. Thats how it works.

Citizens of any state have the right to make their voices heard. They voted on the day they were told to vote, and thus they should not be punished.

They have the right to make their voices heard, but not their votes. Not in a primary.

Furthermore, if we're talking about following the rules, it's easy. The rules now state that Florida and Michigan don't count. Rules can be changed, and they will be. When the rules change, it should be said that the delegates will be seated according to the number of votes they received in each state. In Florida, Clinton received 50% of the vote, Obama received 33%, and Edwards received 14%. Seat these delegates accordingly, and allow Edwards's delegates to vote their will. In Michigan, Clinton received 55% of the vote, 44% voted undecided, Kuchinich received 4%, Gravel received 0%, Obama received 0%, and Edwards received 0%. So seat 55% of the delegates for Clinton, seat 4% for Kuchinich and allow them to vote their will, seat 0% of Obama, Edwards, and Gravel, and make a decision on what to do with the other 44%. After all, that's how they would have been divided anyway.

Except for the people who didn't vote in MI and FL get disenfranchised and fucked over, because the DNC is now going back on its word.

Ohios turnout: 27.0%
Wisconsins turnout: 26.3%
Indianas turnout: 27.0%
Michigans turnout: 7.8%.

But yet somehow it should count?

 

[Jon]

Umm, its called a Republic. You don't like how your Senator, House rep, State reps do? Vote them out. You suffer for their actions until you vote them out. Thats how it works.



They have the right to make their voices heard, but not their votes. Not in a primary.



Except for the people who didn't vote in MI and FL get disenfranchised and fucked over, because the DNC is now going back on its word.

Ohios turnout: 27.0%
Wisconsins turnout: 26.3%
Indianas turnout: 27.0%
Michigans turnout: 7.8%.

But yet somehow it should count?

Are you suggesting a revote? I'd be all for that, but it is not financially capable. If a revote isn't possible, the only thing that can be done is to count the votes that were cast. Period.

 

[Larkinn]

Are you suggesting a revote? I'd be all for that, but it is not financially capable. If a revote isn't possible, the only thing that can be done is to count the votes that were cast. Period.

No, I'm suggesting they punish MI and FL for moving their votes early, and not count them. People have to deal with the choices their government makes. I didn't want to invade Iraq, but here we are. If MI and FL don't like the choices their reps made, then vote them out.

 

[Yurt]

Apparently in you and Yurts world, those people wouldn't include Jillian. She has the freedom of speech to question Yurts speech.

wrong, again. she wanted to shut me up. she was not merely questioning my speech, she was ridiculing my speech....why do i care... hence she wanted to quiet my speech....hello

 

[Larkinn]

wrong, again. she wanted to shut me up. she was not merely questioning my speech, she was ridiculing my speech....why do i care... hence she wanted to quiet my speech....hello

Oh, well I see. Freedom of speech is A OK with you then...unless of course your ridiculing someones speech.

Shes a mod. If she wanted to shut you up, she could. By the way, this is a private message board, there is no freedom of speech here.

 

[Ravi]

No, I'm suggesting they punish MI and FL for moving their votes early, and not count them. People have to deal with the choices their government makes. I didn't want to invade Iraq, but here we are. If MI and FL don't like the choices their reps made, then vote them out.

Just curious...does that mean it's your fault that we torture people?

 

[Larkinn]

Just curious...does that mean it's your fault that we torture people?

I'm glad your learning the difference between what the elected representative wants and what the people want.

But yes, we do need to deal with the fact that Bush invaded Iraq. Shutting your eyes and saying "well hes not my president" doesn't do much except make you look like an idiot. Hes there and he makes decisions for the nation, like it or not.

 

[Ravi]

I take it that means yes?

Now, how about that black face link?

 

[Care4all]

here is the copy of dnc rule on candidates running an ad in florida/michigan...

OF COURSE THE BIASED NEWS DOESN;T COVER THIS!

b. A presidential candidate who campaigns in a state where the state party is in violation of the timing provisions of these rules, or where a primary or caucus is set by a state’s government on a date that violates the timing provisions of these rules, may not receive pledged delegates or delegate votes from that state. Candidates may, however, campaign in such a state after the primary or caucus that violates these rules. “Campaigning” for purposes of this section includes, but is not limited to, purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; holding news conferences; coordinating volunteer activities; sending mail, other than fundraising requests that are also sent to potential donors in other states; using paid or volunteer phoners or automated calls to contact voters; sending emails or establishing a website specific to that state; holding events to which Democratic voters are invited; attending events sponsored by state or local Democratic organizations; or paying for campaign materials to be used in such a state. The Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are covered by this section.

ALSO, i just found the rule on seating half the delegates....the son of a bitch DNC and MEDIA not covering this opportunity to seat half the delegates ACCORDING TO THE RULES, FOR FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN EARLIER , really pisses me off........

ALSO, another deceitful act on obama camp, spreading the rumor that it is HILLARY making up and changing all these rules midstream....they are in the fricking handbook....of course obama knew them....

what a scumbag....and they speek of hillary.....just unbelievable bunch of sheep, repeating lie after lie.... i just don't get it, as i didn't with the bush supporters???

a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by
fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty (50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state’s delegation. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state’s delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number.

will obama lose all of his delegates from those states?

if the dnc plays by the rules, the rules that obamaites INSIST on being played as writen....then he does lose them, and we once again, have a horse race!

 

[Jeepers]

Obama can't debate his way out of a paper bag.

Youve got to be kidding me.. debate before last he buried her.. there was a moment where she looked at him and said under her breath... Damn.. hes good....

That last debate I actually scored for Obama as well.. it seemed like the moderators where asking the tabloid questions.. Clinton was saying yeah.. what he said...and Obama was saying america doesnt care about this crap.. get to the real questions...

Initially he sucked.. but after what 49 debates.. I'd say he's a pro...

 

[Jeepers]

No, I'm suggesting they punish MI and FL for moving their votes early, and not count them. People have to deal with the choices their government makes. I didn't want to invade Iraq, but here we are. If MI and FL don't like the choices their reps made, then vote them out.

Ding Ding Ding...SC having been given permission to hold the first primary in the south said they'd move it all the way to halloween if they had to..

 

[Jeepers]

if the dnc plays by the rules, the rules that obamaites INSIST on being played as writen....then he does lose them, and we once again, have a horse race!

Why is it that only a handfull of random bloggers think that Obama campaigned in fla...

Face it ..this race is done... an unbiased press would have called this long ago...

 

[Ravi]

Why is it that only a handfull of random bloggers think that Obama campaigned in fla...

Face it ..this race is done... an unbiased press would have called this long ago...

Because he spoke to the press. As far as I can tell, it's the only legitimate violation of the rules. What makes you think the press is unbiased?

 

[Glori.B]

ALSO, i just found the rule on seating half the delegates....the son of a bitch DNC and MEDIA not covering this opportunity to seat half the delegates ACCORDING TO THE RULES, FOR FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN EARLIER , really pisses me off........

ALSO, another deceitful act on obama camp, spreading the rumor that it is HILLARY making up and changing all these rules midstream....they are in the fricking handbook....of course obama knew them....

what a scumbag....and they speak of hillary.....just unbelievable bunch of sheep, repeating lie after lie.... i just don't get it, as i didn't with the bush supporters???

i'm with ya!

i saw this article on cnn.com this afternoon:


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/28/dnc.memo/index.html

"Counting the two states' votes could bring Clinton close enough to Obama's total among pledged delegates which in turn could help persuade the party's "superdelegates" that she is the more electable general election candidate.

Superdelegates are party officials who can cast their ballots for the candidate of their choice. They hold the balance of power in the party at the moment."

 

[Jeepers]

Um.. there really wasnt a legitimate election in either state.. split the delegates 50/50 and seat em...if your only going to seat 50% then split that amount 50/50.

 

[Nate Peele]

Blogger Jon Swift had a great article on why Obama should just go ahead and concede.

http://jonswift.blogspot.com/2008/05/barack-obama-should-concede-nomination.html

 

[Jon]

Um.. there really wasnt a legitimate election in either state.. split the delegates 50/50 and seat em...if your only going to seat 50% then split that amount 50/50.

I don't know what's worse: not counting the votes at all, or not counting the votes the way they were cast.