Obama Payback for Soros with YOUR Tax Dollars

[Zoom-boing]

How strict is Brazil with controls on pollution and environmental damage? If they are lax in this area wouldn't drilling there contribute to world pollution? I thought this administration wanted to put a cap on that.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

It takes ALOT of water to make the shit. 1200 gallons for every gallon of ethanol.

Really? I never knew that. And that's better for the environment how??

It's not better. Like most all other "alternatives" it's actually worse for the environment.

I bet most folks don't know any of these secrets:

Dirty little secrets of Ethanol: Yeah, it's "cleaner" if you believe CO2 is really really bad, because it does produce less when combusted. But it also produces the definite pollutant and definite poison to all living things -- CO (Carbon Monoxide) 100 times more than gasoline! Also, it takes 1,200 gallons of water to make a gallon of this crap!

Wind power's dirty little secret: It takes 4 barrels of oil per year, per wind turbine, for the gearbox. And another five barrels for the transformer below each turbine. And these turbines leak and sling this oil. Great for the groundwater!

Multiply those figures times a million, two million wind turbines planned -- and you see why oil magnates like Pickens are pushing this. They stand to sell millions of barrels of oil!

And lets not talk about the MASSIVE amounts of steel and concrete needed for just one of these. Enough steel to build 3000 hybrid cars. Enough concrete to build 200 miles of highway. Imagine if you will, the 50 foot hole that must be dug in the ground for each one of these.

We won't talk about the massive NEW infrastructure that is needed for these, millions of miles of NEW power lines, millions of wood and steel poles, etc.

Dirty little secret of solar: The production of solar panels involves nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) emissions be released. NF3 is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The concentration of it in the atmosphere has increased 20 fold during the last two decades by its use in manufacturing processes. The level is increasing 11 percent per year.

The weaker CO2 stays in the atmosphere up to 100 years. NF3 stays in the atmosphere for 700 years or more. But you never hear anything about NF3, because it's not a product of that evil fossil fuels combustion!

Dirty little secret of Hydrogen: Water Vapor is the product of combustion. Sounds great, right? But -- Water vapor is far and away the #1 greenhouse gas. This according to the IPCC and every other scientist on both sides of the issue. It's the one thing they do ALL agree on. Hmmm...

Cleaner little secret of gasoline powered internal combustion: Today's engines put out 95% fewer emissions than their 1970 counterparts!

Cleaner little secret of Nuclear power: It's zero emissions. Zero. NO carbon output. And Toshiba now has one, called a Nuclear Battery, that is the size of a school bus and is buried 500 feet deep, lasts 50 years and can power half a small city by itself. Perfect for retrofitting existing coal and gas fired power plants, utilizing their land and electrical infrastructure. But oops, can't use it here.

It's what they DON'T tell us that really winds up hurting the environment in the long haul.

 

[Newby]

That water isnt destroyed it returns to the cycle.

I see, that definitely makes me feel better then.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

That water isnt destroyed it returns to the cycle.

It does not. You actually believe all water used in processes such as watering your yard even, returns to the water table? Evaporation. (From which, SOME of the H20 returns to earth in the form of precipitation.) Retention. Corn is one of the thirstiest crops there is to grow. Corn kernels RETAIN water. Then the millions of gallons of water used for the refining process is unusable for anything else afterword.

It's stupid, it's a boondoggle, the resulting fuel isn't near as efficient, and pollutes MORE.

 

[Newby]

It takes ALOT of water to make the shit. 1200 gallons for every gallon of ethanol.

Really? I never knew that. And that's better for the environment how??

It's not better. Like most all other "alternatives" it's actually worse for the environment.

I bet most folks don't know any of these secrets:

Dirty little secrets of Ethanol: Yeah, it's "cleaner" if you believe CO2 is really really bad, because it does produce less when combusted. But it also produces the definite pollutant and definite poison to all living things -- CO (Carbon Monoxide) 100 times more than gasoline! Also, it takes 1,200 gallons of water to make a gallon of this crap!

Wind power's dirty little secret: It takes 4 barrels of oil per year, per wind turbine, for the gearbox. And another five barrels for the transformer below each turbine. And these turbines leak and sling this oil. Great for the groundwater!

Multiply those figures times a million, two million wind turbines planned -- and you see why oil magnates like Pickens are pushing this. They stand to sell millions of barrels of oil!

And lets not talk about the MASSIVE amounts of steel and concrete needed for just one of these. Enough steel to build 3000 hybrid cars. Enough concrete to build 200 miles of highway. Imagine if you will, the 50 foot hole that must be dug in the ground for each one of these.

We won't talk about the massive NEW infrastructure that is needed for these, millions of miles of NEW power lines, millions of wood and steel poles, etc.

Dirty little secret of solar: The production of solar panels involves nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) emissions be released. NF3 is about 17,000 times more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. The concentration of it in the atmosphere has increased 20 fold during the last two decades by its use in manufacturing processes. The level is increasing 11 percent per year.

The weaker CO2 stays in the atmosphere up to 100 years. NF3 stays in the atmosphere for 700 years or more. But you never hear anything about NF3, because it's not a product of that evil fossil fuels combustion!

Dirty little secret of Hydrogen: Water Vapor is the product of combustion. Sounds great, right? But -- Water vapor is far and away the #1 greenhouse gas. This according to the IPCC and every other scientist on both sides of the issue. It's the one thing they do ALL agree on. Hmmm...

Cleaner little secret of gasoline powered internal combustion: Today's engines put out 95% fewer emissions than their 1970 counterparts!

Cleaner little secret of Nuclear power: It's zero emissions. Zero. NO carbon output. And Toshiba now has one, called a Nuclear Battery, that is the size of a school bus and is buried 500 feet deep, lasts 50 years and can power half a small city by itself. Perfect for retrofitting existing coal and gas fired power plants, utilizing their land and electrical infrastructure. But oops, can't use it here.

It's what they DON'T tell us that really winds up hurting the environment in the long haul.

None of them are a realistic replacement for oil either unfortunately unless there is quite a reversal of how we live today. It's the same with all of the so-called 'green' cars as well that take several huge batteries to operate. They never show the area around the plants where those batteries are built, complete dead zones. Nor do they mention where they're going to all go whenever they're done being used.

 

[Newby]

That water isnt destroyed it returns to the cycle.

It does not. You actually believe all water used in processes such as watering your yard even, returns to the water table? Evaporation. (From which, SOME of the H20 returns to earth in the form of precipitation.) Retention. Corn is one of the thirstiest crops there is to grow. Corn kernels RETAIN water. Then the millions of gallons of water used for the refining process is unusable for anything else afterword.

It's stupid, it's a boondoggle, the resulting fuel isn't near as efficient, and pollutes MORE.

Great, now I feel like shit again. Thanks.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

unless there is quite a reversal of how we live today.

Which is, the goal of the environazi movement. Social justice. We here in the US have it way too much better than the rest of the world, and it isn't fair.

 

[Newby]

unless there is quite a reversal of how we live today.

Which is, the goal of the environazi movement. Social justice. We here in the US have it way too much better than the rest of the world, and it isn't fair.

That's the sad truth about all of the left's 'causes', for the most part they really don't give a damn about what they're advocating. Like you said, it's supposedly about social justice, I think it's more about power over people. That's why you see the blatant hypocrisy everywhere. The war was a huge 'cause' when Bush was in office, now not so much. Women's equal rights were a big 'cause', yet when Clinton was shown for his disgusting behavior towards women, not a peep. And the list goes on.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

unless there is quite a reversal of how we live today.

Which is, the goal of the environazi movement. Social justice. We here in the US have it way too much better than the rest of the world, and it isn't fair.

That's the sad truth about all of the left's 'causes', for the most part they really don't give a damn about what they're advocating. Like you said, it's supposedly about social justice, I think it's more about power over people.

Those are mutually inclusive. If it's about one it's automatically about the other.

 

[chanel]

Sorry to ruin your day further newby but ethanol could cause a FOOD shortage a well.

I guess those environazis hate starving children too.

 

[Newby]

Sorry to ruin your day further newby but ethanol could cause a FOOD shortage a well.

I guess those environazis hate starving children too.

Just keep piling it on....

 

[Newby]

Which is, the goal of the environazi movement. Social justice. We here in the US have it way too much better than the rest of the world, and it isn't fair.

That's the sad truth about all of the left's 'causes', for the most part they really don't give a damn about what they're advocating. Like you said, it's supposedly about social justice, I think it's more about power over people.

Those are mutually inclusive. If it's about one it's automatically about the other.

You are very right. What I don't understand is how that is so obvious to me, but others do not see it at all. Not only do they not see it, they have to choose to ignore it in some cases.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Sorry to ruin your day further newby but ethanol could cause a FOOD shortage a well.

I guess those environazis love starving children too.

The sheer stupidity of converting our agricultural food production acreage and resources to growing corn for fuel, burning our food, should be obvious to all.

Shouldn't it?

(And I hope you don't mind me fixing your quote for you.)

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

That water isnt destroyed it returns to the cycle.

It does not. You actually believe all water used in processes such as watering your yard even, returns to the water table? Evaporation. (From which, SOME of the H20 returns to earth in the form of precipitation.) Retention. Corn is one of the thirstiest crops there is to grow. Corn kernels RETAIN water. Then the millions of gallons of water used for the refining process is unusable for anything else afterword.

It's stupid, it's a boondoggle, the resulting fuel isn't near as efficient, and pollutes MORE.

The corn is dried the water evaporates and returns the the cycle.
Same with water used in making plaster, cements and concrete.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

There are plenty of reasons to object to corn ethanol water isn't one of them.

 

[Toro]

one of many who won stock in this company

How did they win it? And how many won, and how come we didn't get to play for it?

But seriously, isn't Brazil the model for getting off oil? They have that "great" sugar beet to ethanol program!

Why are we giving them 2 BILLION dollars when we have starving people in America?

It's a loan. We aren't giving them any money.

The Tupi field offshore of Brazil is the largest find in a generation. It is massive. I'm not sure why the US government has a mandate to lend to large energy companies that can easily tap the credit markets, but if you are going to make a loan for an energy project in the third world, there aren't many better.

 

[BolshevikHunter]

I find it ironic these fucking idiots won't drill off their own shores, and reap all the economic benefits from it, but are all to willing to send 2Billion taxpayer dollars to a buddy to do it in another country. Does that make any sense at all?

When does anything that these bottomfeeders do make any sense? Most of them are mentally ill. ~BH

 

[Ravi]

China and Exxon are also investing in this deal. Probably the US stands to profit by gaining jobs, imports and/or equipment?

I don't understand the outrage. I thought we were friendly with Brazil.

 

[Zoom-boing]

one of many who won stock in this company

How did they win it? And how many won, and how come we didn't get to play for it?

But seriously, isn't Brazil the model for getting off oil? They have that "great" sugar beet to ethanol program!

Why are we giving them 2 BILLION dollars when we have starving people in America?

It's a loan. We aren't giving them any money.

The Tupi field offshore of Brazil is the largest find in a generation. It is massive. I'm not sure why the US government has a mandate to lend to large energy companies that can easily tap the credit markets, but if you are going to make a loan for an energy project in the third world, there aren't many better.

Are we loaning them money we borrowed from China or money we printed off the machine? (Don't take this question as being smart-assed; it isn't )

Why don't we put that 2 billion into drilling off of our own shores?

 

[MaggieMae]

So we have the usual screeching by the righties before they even understand the deal. Here are two followup articles, one, ironically from FOX. Looks like a good investment, to me.

The area has KNOWN resources, whereas further drilling offshore the U.S. and Alaska are hit or miss and may take a decade to be productive.

Article - WSJ.com

Petrobras expects to have 10 drilling rigs operating in the deepwater basin in 2010, up from six rigs currently drilling in the region, CFO Almir Barbassa said Tuesday. The Santos Basin is the site of several discoveries, including Tupi - the largest discovery in the Western Hemisphere in more than 30 years.

"We're very active in the Santos area, and we're going to increase drilling activity even further," Barbassa said. Barbassa made the comments during a conference call with analysts.

Two rigs will start drilling in the region by the end of 2009, with an additional six rigs expected to be delivered in 2010. Not all of the 2010 deliveries will be headed for the Santos Basin, however, as Petrobras fulfills exploration commitments elsewhere in its massive Brazilian offshore acreage.

The Santos Basin is home to Brazil's subsalt region of recent discoveries. The subsalt oil discoveries were made under a thick layer of salt in the Santos Basin off the coast of Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro states. The oil lies under more than 2,000 meters of water and a further 5,000 meters under sand, rock and a shifting layer of salt.

In November 2007, Petrobras estimated recoverable reserves at the Tupi field were between 5 billion and 8 billion barrels of oil equivalent, or BOE. That was the largest discovery in the Americas in more than 30 years.

Three of the six rigs currently active in the Santos Basin were drilling fresh wells, Barbassa said.

The Iracema and Tupi Nordeste were being spudded in the BM-S-11 block, home to the Tupi and Iara discoveries. A separate rig was drilling the Abare prospect in the BM-S-9 block, home to the Guara discovery.

Two other rigs were helping with formation tests at Iara and Guara, which will be the next two subsalt discoveries to undergo long-term well tests. Testing of the Iara well should be completed in 20 days, while the Guara formation test should be concluded in 45 days, Petrobras officials said.

"The tests will help us better understand these reservoirs," Barbassa said.

The Santos Basin's sixth drilling rig was currently doing repair work at the Tupi long-term well test. Petrobras halted the test in July because of problems with a wet Christmas tree, a submarine well-flow control device.

The well test should restart in September, Barbassa said.
-By Jeff Fick, Dow Jones Newswires; 55-21-2586-6085; [email protected]

» White House Weighs In on Petrobras Deal Row 2, Seat 4 « FOXNews.com

"The Ex-Im loan money will go to finance Petrobras' oil drilling projects in the newly found off-shore "pre-salt" reserves. The funding will ensure U.S. companies benefit by providing support services and equipment to these projects.

Working with Brazil offers a wide array of opportunities for energy cooperation well beyond oil. Such cooperation is not only good for U.S. companies, but also helps to develop further a stable and reliable energy supplier.