Obama creates faith-based office with wide mission

[Shogun]

Hey.. I'm all for faith based organizations and their offers to help in whatever areas... as long as they are funded thru charitable donations.. not the government

So if we want the government to run similar organizations, we should set up a second organization right next store to the faith based one that is already there and already doing the work. That way they can compete, right? Doesn't this seem like wasting tax payer money to duplicate what is already being done.

When two similar companies are trying to cut costs, many times they merge into one company to reduce overall operational costs. In business, this is usually encouraged, but for charitable organizations, we want to reduce the effect of faith based ones in favor of government operated ones, in this case at a much higher cost?

I'm sorry, but to me, it makes much more sense to spend a smaller amount of tax payer money on the existing organization, the one stiuplation being that moneys doled out are somewhat evenly distributed amongst various faith based organizations, and not just one. I would have a problem if all the money only went to Christian organizations or only to Jewish organizations, or any other single group. However, if it is distributed in a fair manner, than I just don't see the problem. Also, any non-religious groups that provide helpful services to the poor or just to their communities should also be included.

Okay ... so to you it's a competition of who can help more? Here all the groups work together (or try to, some who just don't get along). There are two right next to each other, because of them being next to each other they actually offer more effective services by splitting the load. Next attempt to look like you've been there ...

The TRULY hilarious aspect of this dude is that I bet you jacks, joes and fucking dominoes that this guy would SCREAM pork barrel special interest spending were it not the case that the organizations he is bleeding on the floor about were anything other than RELIGIOUS (see, christian or hebrew) organizations. You think he's trying to argue for Planned Parenthood the same way? Fuck no. And THIS is why collective TAXES should not be used to find religious groups.

 

[auditor0007]

Yea, faith based organizations do terrible work. They ought to be made illegal. We really ought to get rid of them all. While we're at it, we should probably outlaw religion completely. We all know how this would make for a better world.

I'm just curious; how many atheist organizations contribute to the need of the poor and uneducated in comparison to those that are faith based? I'm trying to think of all the great atheist organizations that were there after Hurricane Katrina helping out as much as they could.

read the first amendment, motherfucker. Hate it or not this nation is not a fucking tit by which you can pad your fucking offering plate. If you want to go do humanitarian work then go for it. I do't recall any scripture that suggests that government financial support is a prerequisite for helping the poor.

and yes, faith based initiatives ARE a fucking failure. Complete and total. Here any good Abstinence Only jokes lately? The bottom line is that the aftermath of Katrina is not some bargaining chip that you dogma junkie motherfuckers can use to suck on a government tit.


and yes, to be honest, the world WOULD be a better place without you cromagnon "worship the campfire" bastards were not around pretending that your stone age mythology more tangible than the failures of throwing money at religious organizations. America doesn't OWE you a goddamn thing just because you are acting like your jesus icon told you to regarding the poor.


fucking dogma junkies.. Next thing you know they'll be insisting that jesus votes republican.. Oh wait.. that happened already.

Shogun, your stance is accurate but your ideas of none of them working is not. Look up Compass Center :: Welcome , they are the ones that helped me. They were started by the local Lutheran churches and even have a small chapel in the main building. However, AHA (Catholic run) is a complete failure that caters to junkies and those who abuse the system. The difference is that Compass does not discriminate against anyone, but they work with those they are helping, however AHA discriminates against gays, non-christians, and even the disabled. Oddly, they have a ton of junkies who "promise they are trying to be good christians" but wind up wasting our taxes going through the same programs over and over again and in and out of jail. Whether religiously based or not, it's how it's run that makes the big difference. But anything that is connected to any religion directly should never get taxes.

Any faith based organization that discriminates in any way should not receive any federal funding. Having government compete with faith based organizations will only cost everyone more.

As for you Shogun, the world would be a much better place without your hate filled egotistical types spewing your bullshit. You have the right to believe whatever you wish, but don't try forcing your atheistic views on me. And as for your use of fuck and mother fucker in every other sentence, it only makes you look like a fool. The use of those words on occasion can show passion, but when used in every other sentence, it just shows you to be of little character and not worth listening to in the first place.

 

[KittenKoder]

I have to agree with Shogun (though I would prefer it less heated) on this last post.

 

[auditor0007]

So if we want the government to run similar organizations, we should set up a second organization right next store to the faith based one that is already there and already doing the work. That way they can compete, right? Doesn't this seem like wasting tax payer money to duplicate what is already being done.

When two similar companies are trying to cut costs, many times they merge into one company to reduce overall operational costs. In business, this is usually encouraged, but for charitable organizations, we want to reduce the effect of faith based ones in favor of government operated ones, in this case at a much higher cost?

I'm sorry, but to me, it makes much more sense to spend a smaller amount of tax payer money on the existing organization, the one stiuplation being that moneys doled out are somewhat evenly distributed amongst various faith based organizations, and not just one. I would have a problem if all the money only went to Christian organizations or only to Jewish organizations, or any other single group. However, if it is distributed in a fair manner, than I just don't see the problem. Also, any non-religious groups that provide helpful services to the poor or just to their communities should also be included.

Okay ... so to you it's a competition of who can help more? Here all the groups work together (or try to, some who just don't get along). There are two right next to each other, because of them being next to each other they actually offer more effective services by splitting the load. Next attempt to look like you've been there ...

The TRULY hilarious aspect of this dude is that I bet you jacks, joes and fucking dominoes that this guy would SCREAM pork barrel special interest spending were it not the case that the organizations he is bleeding on the floor about were anything other than RELIGIOUS (see, christian or hebrew) organizations. You think he's trying to argue for Planned Parenthood the same way? Fuck no. And THIS is why collective TAXES should not be used to find religious groups.

Actually I have mixed feelings when it comes to Planned Parenthood. On one hand, the services they provide as far as providing birth control is a good thing. I don't even have a problem with them performing abortions at taxpayer expense. I do have a problem with the fact that, for the most part, they refuse to discuss legitimately the alternatives available to those who might be seeking an abortion. From everything I have seen, they pretty much are in the business of selling pregnant women on abortion. I believe abortion should be the last option, not the first, and Planned Parenthood sells abortion as the first option.

 

[KittenKoder]

Any faith based organization that discriminates in any way should not receive any federal funding. Having government compete with faith based organizations will only cost everyone more. .

Okay ... let's focus on that one tiny portion of the problem this time. They cannot control that, that is where freedom of religion does come into play. They are, by law, allowed to discriminate in any way they deem fit, for any reason. They can even discriminate based on skin color if they wanted (though there'd be a huge court battle for that one). So even putting that stipulation in the pending would be illegal, since faith-based organizations are formed by the religion they are also allowed to follow those religious ideals no matter how wrong or stupid they are. Otherwise AHA would have been gutted by now, but instead they are remodeling some of their own facilities with a large donation they recently acquired (not Gates or Jobbs thankfully). There is only one exception to this rule: housing. However this is because all housing needs to be subsidised or these organizations could not afford it, thus the state actually pays for it. They operate the buildings for housing however the state technically owns it, and they are not allowed to make any profit from it.

 

[Shogun]

read the first amendment, motherfucker. Hate it or not this nation is not a fucking tit by which you can pad your fucking offering plate. If you want to go do humanitarian work then go for it. I do't recall any scripture that suggests that government financial support is a prerequisite for helping the poor.

and yes, faith based initiatives ARE a fucking failure. Complete and total. Here any good Abstinence Only jokes lately? The bottom line is that the aftermath of Katrina is not some bargaining chip that you dogma junkie motherfuckers can use to suck on a government tit.


and yes, to be honest, the world WOULD be a better place without you cromagnon "worship the campfire" bastards were not around pretending that your stone age mythology more tangible than the failures of throwing money at religious organizations. America doesn't OWE you a goddamn thing just because you are acting like your jesus icon told you to regarding the poor.


fucking dogma junkies.. Next thing you know they'll be insisting that jesus votes republican.. Oh wait.. that happened already.

Shogun, your stance is accurate but your ideas of none of them working is not. Look up Compass Center :: Welcome , they are the ones that helped me. They were started by the local Lutheran churches and even have a small chapel in the main building. However, AHA (Catholic run) is a complete failure that caters to junkies and those who abuse the system. The difference is that Compass does not discriminate against anyone, but they work with those they are helping, however AHA discriminates against gays, non-christians, and even the disabled. Oddly, they have a ton of junkies who "promise they are trying to be good christians" but wind up wasting our taxes going through the same programs over and over again and in and out of jail. Whether religiously based or not, it's how it's run that makes the big difference. But anything that is connected to any religion directly should never get taxes.

Any faith based organization that discriminates in any way should not receive any federal funding. Having government compete with faith based organizations will only cost everyone more.

As for you Shogun, the world would be a much better place without your hate filled egotistical types spewing your bullshit. You have the right to believe whatever you wish, but don't try forcing your atheistic views on me. And as for your use of fuck and mother fucker in every other sentence, it only makes you look like a fool. The use of those words on occasion can show passion, but when used in every other sentence, it just shows you to be of little character and not worth listening to in the first place.

Come getcha some, motherfucker. Ther world is flat enough for you to walk on and gravity won't let you float off into space so go ahead and get your fucking crusade on, bitch. We've seen what you people are capable of in the name of already.

No one is forcing MY views on YOU by restricting YOUR dogma junkie access to tax money. Now cry me a fucking river because aspects of America don't enjoy being fleeced by your fucking organization via taxes.


Truly, I give a rats ass about your opinon of my posts. No, really. Hold your fucking breath until I come beg you for forgiveness. I'll, uh, be right there.

 

[Shogun]

Okay ... so to you it's a competition of who can help more? Here all the groups work together (or try to, some who just don't get along). There are two right next to each other, because of them being next to each other they actually offer more effective services by splitting the load. Next attempt to look like you've been there ...

The TRULY hilarious aspect of this dude is that I bet you jacks, joes and fucking dominoes that this guy would SCREAM pork barrel special interest spending were it not the case that the organizations he is bleeding on the floor about were anything other than RELIGIOUS (see, christian or hebrew) organizations. You think he's trying to argue for Planned Parenthood the same way? Fuck no. And THIS is why collective TAXES should not be used to find religious groups.

Actually I have mixed feelings when it comes to Planned Parenthood. On one hand, the services they provide as far as providing birth control is a good thing. I don't even have a problem with them performing abortions at taxpayer expense. I do have a problem with the fact that, for the most part, they refuse to discuss legitimately the alternatives available to those who might be seeking an abortion. From everything I have seen, they pretty much are in the business of selling pregnant women on abortion. I believe abortion should be the last option, not the first, and Planned Parenthood sells abortion as the first option.

Your religious opinion means two things to an individual: jack and shit. Just like it SHOULD be in the case that gays can adopt kids without catholic charities deciding that they are the fucking gatelord of tax based services. But thats just not how THAT panned the fuck out now, is it?

 

[xsited1]

I'm sure Bush will get blamed for this since Obama can do no wrong. On a related subject, Barack sure has been screwing up a lot after just a couple weeks. What's up with that?

 

[KittenKoder]

I'm sure Bush will get blamed for this since Obama can do no wrong. On a related subject, Barack sure has been screwing up a lot after just a couple weeks. What's up with that?

Technically they aren't screw ups until after the effects occur ... but yeah, he is making a few bad choices, but this one doesn't surprise me AT ALL.

 

[auditor0007]

The TRULY hilarious aspect of this dude is that I bet you jacks, joes and fucking dominoes that this guy would SCREAM pork barrel special interest spending were it not the case that the organizations he is bleeding on the floor about were anything other than RELIGIOUS (see, christian or hebrew) organizations. You think he's trying to argue for Planned Parenthood the same way? Fuck no. And THIS is why collective TAXES should not be used to find religious groups.

Actually I have mixed feelings when it comes to Planned Parenthood. On one hand, the services they provide as far as providing birth control is a good thing. I don't even have a problem with them performing abortions at taxpayer expense. I do have a problem with the fact that, for the most part, they refuse to discuss legitimately the alternatives available to those who might be seeking an abortion. From everything I have seen, they pretty much are in the business of selling pregnant women on abortion. I believe abortion should be the last option, not the first, and Planned Parenthood sells abortion as the first option.

Your religious opinion means two things to an individual: jack and shit. Just like it SHOULD be in the case that gays can adopt kids without catholic charities deciding that they are the fucking gatelord of tax based services. But thats just not how THAT panned the fuck out now, is it?

What does my religious opinion have to do with anything? I haven't discussed my religious opinion at any time with you. You're just so high on your anti-religious horse that you can't even see the ground anymore. And to be honest, I don't give a rat's ass what you think either. You're so disconbobulated at this point, you came up with some crap about religion rather than responding to my response about Planned Parenthood. Put on the dunce cap and go sit in the corner for fifteen minutes. I'm done with you for the day. When you grow up, come back to play.

 

[manu1959]

jesus fucking christ. When do we get to stop supporting dogma junkies with collective taxes? Faith based programs are worthless. Pandering to a bunch of dogma junkies doesn't solve anything when bush did it and won't solve anything now.

but it will work in palestine and iran huh..............

 

[cbi0090]

The issue is not that the government is funding them with tax payer money. The money for various causes is available and being spent, it's just that faith based organizations are being excluded from applying for grants, etc. solely because they are faith based. It's particularly unfair when they are just as qualified or even better qualified than competing organizations and can often do things at lower costs because they already have charitable support. For example (a real life example), a religious organization has the volunteers to assist in making repairs to a delapitated public park but not the funds to just buy the materials. Why shouldn't they be allowed to apply for public grants to get the money to purchase the materials? They can't because they are a faith based organization?? Silly!

 

[Shogun]

Actually I have mixed feelings when it comes to Planned Parenthood. On one hand, the services they provide as far as providing birth control is a good thing. I don't even have a problem with them performing abortions at taxpayer expense. I do have a problem with the fact that, for the most part, they refuse to discuss legitimately the alternatives available to those who might be seeking an abortion. From everything I have seen, they pretty much are in the business of selling pregnant women on abortion. I believe abortion should be the last option, not the first, and Planned Parenthood sells abortion as the first option.

Your religious opinion means two things to an individual: jack and shit. Just like it SHOULD be in the case that gays can adopt kids without catholic charities deciding that they are the fucking gatelord of tax based services. But thats just not how THAT panned the fuck out now, is it?

What does my religious opinion have to do with anything? I haven't discussed my religious opinion at any time with you. You're just so high on your anti-religious horse that you can't even see the ground anymore. And to be honest, I don't give a rat's ass what you think either. You're so disconbobulated at this point, you came up with some crap about religion rather than responding to my response about Planned Parenthood. Put on the dunce cap and go sit in the corner for fifteen minutes. I'm done with you for the day. When you grow up, come back to play.

Do you want evidence of the fallacy of your opinion, bitch?


Despite the board's sentiment, the decision upset some Catholics yesterday. Some were angry at Catholic Charities for giving up the fight for an exemption on religious grounds. The bishops have said that a 2003 Vatican document says children are best raised by a mother and father and described gay adoptions as ''gravely immoral."

''It's a defeat for religious freedom," said C.J. Doyle, executive director of the Catholic Action League, a conservative Catholic advocacy group. ''Not only does the church and society suffer, but the church is allowing itself to be marginalized."
Catholic Charities stuns state, ends adoptions - The Boston Globe

now go pray for funding, motherfucker. The general public is not your bankroll.

 

[Shogun]

jesus fucking christ. When do we get to stop supporting dogma junkies with collective taxes? Faith based programs are worthless. Pandering to a bunch of dogma junkies doesn't solve anything when bush did it and won't solve anything now.

but it will work in palestine and iran huh..............

when did Americans become Palestineans and Iranians? Wow, that was weak as fuck, dude.

 

[del]

Yea, faith based organizations do terrible work. They ought to be made illegal. We really ought to get rid of them all. While we're at it, we should probably outlaw religion completely. We all know how this would make for a better world.

I'm just curious; how many atheist organizations contribute to the need of the poor and uneducated in comparison to those that are faith based? I'm trying to think of all the great atheist organizations that were there after Hurricane Katrina helping out as much as they could.

you mean like the red cross?
dope.

 

[cbi0090]

Yea, faith based organizations do terrible work. They ought to be made illegal. We really ought to get rid of them all. While we're at it, we should probably outlaw religion completely. We all know how this would make for a better world.

I'm just curious; how many atheist organizations contribute to the need of the poor and uneducated in comparison to those that are faith based? I'm trying to think of all the great atheist organizations that were there after Hurricane Katrina helping out as much as they could.

you mean like the red cross?
dope.

I don't know if it's exactly the same as it was but in Vietnam the Red Cross charged for its services. The Salvation Army was the only one there handing out charitable support.

 

[Otter_Creek]

Anything that gives shogut an ulcer is fine with me.

 

[Shogun]

Anything that gives shogut an ulcer is fine with me.

is that your weekly testimony, dogma junkie? Jesus must be proud.

 

[KittenKoder]

Yea, faith based organizations do terrible work. They ought to be made illegal. We really ought to get rid of them all. While we're at it, we should probably outlaw religion completely. We all know how this would make for a better world.

I'm just curious; how many atheist organizations contribute to the need of the poor and uneducated in comparison to those that are faith based? I'm trying to think of all the great atheist organizations that were there after Hurricane Katrina helping out as much as they could.

you mean like the red cross?
dope.

I don't know if it's exactly the same as it was but in Vietnam the Red Cross charged for its services. The Salvation Army was the only one there handing out charitable support.

Red Cross at one time had to charge for services until they were finally granted funds from not only the government but mostly still private organizations. Even then, when they are supporting another service they still charge to offset the costs. "Not for Profit" or even "Charitable" does not always mean free, nor does it have to, it just means that any money they charge or gain goes right into paying for employees and services. Medical gear is some of the most expensive equipment (thanks to no one putting any regulations on it) so they sometimes need that money.

 

[Otter_Creek]

Anything that gives shogut an ulcer is fine with me.

is that your weekly testimony, dogma junkie? Jesus must be proud.

You really do live in your own little narcissist world don't you?

Just what in that post told you I'm a "Dogma Junkie"?