Obama Brownshirts?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Turboswede, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. Turboswede
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    Turboswede Very Metal

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    I find it ironic that these sites have been popping up on the web while supporters of McCain at political events call for violent action against Obama and his supporters. I guess calling the democrats communists and socialists isn’t enough, now they are considered fascists as well.

    Obama and his brown shirts

    Fascism is an extreme “right wing” ideology which may look like state socialism to the casual observer but has a number of distinguishing factors that set it apart from strict socialism. The Fascist model exposes the idea of the “nation” or “people” as the key method used in self definition. So, one would say “I am a Swede (or what ever)”, and would relate to other Swedes first, regardless of class or occupation. On the other hand the strict socialist would view the world from a class based perspective. In that case one may say “I am an engineer and part of the educated middle class”, and our engineer would identify more with a British or Chinese engineer than (for example) a Swedish factory worker.

    Another factor inherent in fascism is the concept of a “corporativist” state where the state is able to recognize or 'incorporate” every divergent interest into a single economic / political power structure as it stands alone. Again this may look like another example of state socialism, but communism at its heart abhors the concept of private property with the Corporativist model behind fascism uses the lure of property to entice business into the Corporativist relationship.

    Put another way, under the (admittedly extreme) socialist model one would come to power, seize all private property, and allow the state to apportion the bounty as it sees fit. The Corporativist model is much more subtle in that it uses lucrative government contracts or state authorized monopolies to encourage business’ compliance with the will of the state. Just remember:

    Private Property = Right
    Communal Ownership = Left

    The final big separation between Fascism and Socialism is the focus on the irrational over the rational. A socialist state is based on the Hegelian dialectic (thesis/antithesis/synthesis) and the concept of scientific socialism. Under a socialist model all social problems can be solved through application of scientific methods and an appeal to logic, as humans are thought to be rational individuals.

    On the other hand the Fascist state embraces the irrational and encourages emotive displays of national pride and power to promote the idea that individual identity is based on belonging to a “nation” or “people”.

    This is why a Socialist’s speech may sound like a detailed lecture while a Fascist’s speech would seem like a passionate sermon.

    On the violence front, both camps advocate violence against the “other” whether based on class (Socialist) or nation/people (Fascist). Socialists tend to view violence as a means to an end while Fascists are more likely to revel in emotions triggered by the violent acts themselves.

    So, I think Obama and his supporters deserve the “progressive” and “liberal” (as in favoring change) moniker with maybe a little socialism thrown in, but to call Obama and his supporters “Fascists” for stating that some GOP political ads should be rescinded due to untrue claims is just absurd.

    Shouting at a political rally that someone should kill that (racial epithet) and receiving cheers from the crowd, well we will see what America decides next month.
     
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  2. hjmick
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    hjmick Gold Member

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    Need to keep up, Swede:

    SCRANTON – The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.

    The Scranton Times-Tribune first reported the alleged incident on its Web site Tuesday and then again in its print edition Wednesday. The first story, written by reporter David Singleton, appeared with allegations that while congressional candidate Chris Hackett was addressing the crowd and mentioned Obama’s name a man in the audience shouted “kill him..."

    Agent Bill Slavoski said he was in the audience, along with an undisclosed number of additional secret service agents and other law enforcement officers and not one heard the comment.

    “I was baffled,” he said after reading the report in Wednesday’s Times-Tribune.

    He said the agency conducted an investigation Wednesday, after seeing the story, and could not find one person to corroborate the allegation other than Singleton...
     
  3. Turboswede
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    Turboswede Very Metal

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    The incident I referred to occured in Florida.
     
  4. hjmick
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    hjmick Gold Member

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    Fort Myers earlier this month?
     
  5. DiveCon
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    DiveCon gone

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    sorry, it never happened
     
  6. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Yeah the problem is that fascism and socialism can so easily become the same.

    Both systems are end up as totalitarian nightmares.

    The high sounding political scientific principles they hide behind are seldom more than their rationalization to become rapacious governments which enslave their people.

    The subjective difference for the outsiders of either system are basically the same.

    Stalin or Hitler, either way the average citizen has no rights and is thought of as nothing more than a tool to be used.

    We debate these political systems sometimes as though we cannot see that totalitarian goverments can't fester in EVERY POLITICAL SYSTEM.

    But look around in the world. We have totalitarian capitalist nations, totalarian socialist nations, and we used to have totalitarian fascist nations.

    Which one is better or worse to live in?

    The question is silly. They ALL suck.
     

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