Obama asserts executive priviledge over fast and furious documents

[bigrebnc1775]

They only care when it's made aware to them
If they don't hear about it on CBS NBC ABC then it must not be true.,

Then it just became true, because even the DNC press is reporting it now.

It's about time.

 

[HUGGY]

Obama asserts executive priviledge over fast and furious documents

No limits in this Whitehouse

Liar. Obama dropped the shoe over an uprecidented demand for white house and DOJ in house E-mails. That is a non starter as it violates the seperation of power. Issa is an idiot and an asshole for even thinking it was his right to demand these documents.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Obama asserts executive priviledge over fast and furious documents

No limits in this Whitehouse

Liar. Obama dropped the shoe over an uprecidented demand for white house and DOJ in house E-mails. That is a non starter as it violates the seperation of power. Issa is an idiot and an asshole for even thinking it was his right to demand these documents.

obama admitted he knew about fast and the furious when he use executive privilege. He also misused the executive privilege because it's use is for to protect national security.

 

[Conservative]

i don't think your first sentence makes much sense, but if you're saying that the Democrats who voted for the Iraq 2003 invasion are culpable for the clusterfuck that war was, then yes, I agree. Unfortunately there's not much that can be done to "punish" them other than to not vote for them, though.

But yes, I do think anyone who voted for the Iraq war should be held responsible. Of course, they were given completely false intelligence data to sway them. And I'm not sure exactly how false the Bush II Team knew the data was, but clearly there were some mitigating circumstances.

HR6028 spelled out what the funds were for; Issa voted for them. So that's where the comparison sharply turns.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but HR 6028 didn't spell out the operational details of ANYTHING. You can go read all 50-some pages of it here Text of H.R.6028 as Referred in Senate: Merida Initiative to Combat Illicit Narcotics and Reduce Organized Crime... OpenCongress if you'd like.

So it didn't mention this stuff?

(5) on January 16, 2008, ATF announced that it will add 25 special agents and 15 inspectors to their Project Gunrunner along the Southwest Border. And, the ATF budget request for fiscal year 2009 includes funding for another 12 inspectors; and
(6) an effective strategy to combat these illegal arms flows is a critical part of a United States contribution to a jointly executed anti-narcotics strategy with Mexico.
(b) Project Gunrunner Initiative-
(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall, to the extent amounts are made available to carry out this subsection pursuant to paragraph (4), use such amounts for the Project Gunrunner initiative (hereafter in this subsection referred to as the ‘initiative’) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives to expand the resources provided to identify, investigate, and prosecute individuals involved in the trafficking of firearms across the United States-Mexico border.

I'll grant you that specific operational details were not in the bill, but this is most certainly the bill that funded F&F, and Issa most certainly voted for it. If he had reservations about "Gunrunning" maybe he should have brought them up and possibly not voted for the bill, right?

funny how you whine like a little girl repeatedly about Issa voting yes, but barely mentioned the fact that MORE Democrats voted YES than Republicans.

 

[Conservative]

There are a lot of different stories about how many offers were made to Issa to view the documents he wanted One was that he was offered the view them in private, and he refused. Now, I get that disclosure is important and all that, but for the Right to just plug their ears and go "la la la" to the overtly partisan jockeying that Issa's been doing is crazy-town, and it WILL get out.

you are wrong.

He was not offered to see them at all.

He was offered a personal briefing on what the documents said.

And who offered him that briefing?

The same man who said one thing and then recanted and said another.

But no...he was never offered the docs themseleves

i don't know; I think there was an offer to see the docs, or at least that's one of the stories out there. My point in all of this stands though: it's partisanship, nothing more. If it weren't, at least ONE Democrat on the Committee would have voted Yea.

you base a lot of your Issa accusations on things you 'think' happened, or 'heard somewhere', or on 'a story that's out there'... yet never provide any evidence to back them up.

Why is that, Derp-shit?

 

[Vidi]

Fast and Furious was not the first "gunwalking" operation. But it went wrong. George W. Bush had "gunwalking" opperations under him ( at least 200 guns were lost in a Bush era gunwalking operation ) and that program was ended on Oct 6, 2007. And it SHOULD have ended there. Lesson learned.

Instead, F n F was started Oct 26, 2009. Thats a two year gap between operations. Therefore, Fast and Furious was clearly initiated on President Obamas watch. And it was the continuation of a tactic that FAILED during the Bush years. We should have known better.

"Gunwalking" was a dangerous tactic, but one that could have yielded positive results. It was extremely risky. Had it gone right, it would be a major feather in the cap of the administration. But because it went wrong, its a mark against them.

In the end though, this entire "investigation" is little more than political theatre as this investigation would NOT be happening if this occured to a Republican President with a Republican controlled house NOR would it occur if the House were Democrat and the President Democrat. Both sides would have swept it under the rug while the other minority side screamed bloody murder about it.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Fast and Furious was not the first "gunwalking" operation. But it went wrong. George W. Bush had "gunwalking" opperations under him ( at least 200 guns were lost in a Bush era gunwalking operation ) and that program was ended on Oct 6, 2007. And it SHOULD have ended there. Lesson learned.

Instead, F n F was started Oct 26, 2009. Thats a two year gap between operations. Therefore, Fast and Furious was clearly initiated on President Obamas watch. And it was the continuation of a tactic that FAILED during the Bush years. We should have known better.

"Gunwalking" was a dangerous tactic, but one that could have yielded positive results. It was extremely risky. Had it gone right, it would be a major feather in the cap of the administration. But because it went wrong, its a mark against them.

In the end though, this entire "investigation" is little more than political theatre as this investigation would NOT be happening if this occured to a Republican President with a Republican controlled house NOR would it occur if the House were Democrat and the President Democrat. Both sides would have swept it under the rug while the other minority side screamed bloody murder about it.

Thread win.

S that D Shut it Down Deal Breaker

 

[Liability]

Fast and Furious was not the first "gunwalking" operation. But it went wrong. George W. Bush had "gunwalking" opperations under him ( at least 200 guns were lost in a Bush era gunwalking operation ) and that program was ended on Oct 6, 2007. And it SHOULD have ended there. Lesson learned.

Instead, F n F was started Oct 26, 2009. Thats a two year gap between operations. Therefore, Fast and Furious was clearly initiated on President Obamas watch. And it was the continuation of a tactic that FAILED during the Bush years. We should have known better.

"Gunwalking" was a dangerous tactic, but one that could have yielded positive results. It was extremely risky. Had it gone right, it would be a major feather in the cap of the administration. But because it went wrong, its a mark against them.

In the end though, this entire "investigation" is little more than political theatre as this investigation would NOT be happening if this occured to a Republican President with a Republican controlled house NOR would it occur if the House were Democrat and the President Democrat. Both sides would have swept it under the rug while the other minority side screamed bloody murder about it.

If folks in the Boooooosh Administration tried any version of gunwalking and realized that it was a bad idea (not to mention too difficult to actually control), then the Obama Administration effort to try a new version of gunwalking (i.e., Fast and Furious) would have to be extremely well thought out, planned, executed and much much safer.

For otherwise it would be imbecility to go that route again after it had been found so faulty.

But reality rears its ugly head and we see, instead, that the Obama Administration clusterfucks instead did a new version of gunwalking that only managed to get people killed.

The present liberal Democrat effort to differentiate is a massive partisan hack fail. For not all plans are equal and the shithead Administration, its DoJ and its inept AG ignored the lesson and made matters worse.

THEN we can discuss the coverup.

 

[Liability]

Obama asserts executive priviledge over fast and furious documents

No limits in this Whitehouse

Liar. Obama dropped the shoe over an uprecidented demand for white house and DOJ in house E-mails. That is a non starter as it violates the seperation of power. Issa is an idiot and an asshole for even thinking it was his right to demand these documents.

Horse shit.

The demand from the House Committee performing its oversight investigation is not even remotely unprecedented.

It is not a violation of separation of powers either.

Its actually the Legislative Branch doing its job. And its the Executive Branch engaged in a coverup.

President Obama is the asshole for invoking Executive Privilege at all over this matter. He is a liar and an unethical coward.

 

[Conservative]

you are wrong.

He was not offered to see them at all.

He was offered a personal briefing on what the documents said.

And who offered him that briefing?

The same man who said one thing and then recanted and said another.

But no...he was never offered the docs themseleves

i don't know; I think there was an offer to see the docs, or at least that's one of the stories out there. My point in all of this stands though: it's partisanship, nothing more. If it weren't, at least ONE Democrat on the Committee would have voted Yea.

you base a lot of your Issa accusations on things you 'think' happened, or 'heard somewhere', or on 'a story that's out there'... yet never provide any evidence to back them up.

Why is that, Derp-shit?

no response, Derp-shit?

 

[Liability]

i don't know; I think there was an offer to see the docs, or at least that's one of the stories out there. My point in all of this stands though: it's partisanship, nothing more. If it weren't, at least ONE Democrat on the Committee would have voted Yea.

you base a lot of your Issa accusations on things you 'think' happened, or 'heard somewhere', or on 'a story that's out there'... yet never provide any evidence to back them up.

Why is that, Derp-shit?

no response, Derp-shit?

He hasn't heard yet how to respond and, truth be told, it's pretty clear he CAN'T think on his own.

 

[naturegirl]

I just want to know why the Dems aren't interested in the truth, why they don't give a crap about a border agent that had bean bags and rubber bullets to protect him against drug lords.

Who gives a shit what side says what, are you so blindly partisan you only see this as a them vs us problem?? Obama and his comrades have conditioned you well if you do.

 

[Vidi]

Fast and Furious was not the first "gunwalking" operation. But it went wrong. George W. Bush had "gunwalking" opperations under him ( at least 200 guns were lost in a Bush era gunwalking operation ) and that program was ended on Oct 6, 2007. And it SHOULD have ended there. Lesson learned.

Instead, F n F was started Oct 26, 2009. Thats a two year gap between operations. Therefore, Fast and Furious was clearly initiated on President Obamas watch. And it was the continuation of a tactic that FAILED during the Bush years. We should have known better.

"Gunwalking" was a dangerous tactic, but one that could have yielded positive results. It was extremely risky. Had it gone right, it would be a major feather in the cap of the administration. But because it went wrong, its a mark against them.

In the end though, this entire "investigation" is little more than political theatre as this investigation would NOT be happening if this occured to a Republican President with a Republican controlled house NOR would it occur if the House were Democrat and the President Democrat. Both sides would have swept it under the rug while the other minority side screamed bloody murder about it.

If folks in the Boooooosh Administration tried any version of gunwalking and realized that it was a bad idea (not to mention too difficult to actually control), then the Obama Administration effort to try a new version of gunwalking (i.e., Fast and Furious) would have to be extremely well thought out, planned, executed and much much safer.

For otherwise it would be imbecility to go that route again after it had been found so faulty.

But reality rears its ugly head and we see, instead, that the Obama Administration clusterfucks instead did a new version of gunwalking that only managed to get people killed.

The present liberal Democrat effort to differentiate is a massive partisan hack fail. For not all plans are equal and the shithead Administration, its DoJ and its inept AG ignored the lesson and made matters worse.

THEN we can discuss the coverup.

I agree that it was messed up. The Bush administration tried it, failed and abandoned it. The fact that the Obama administration thought they could take a failed tactic and succeed was arrogance, pure and simple. And as I stated, there needs to be accountability.

However, the vast majority of this thread has been focused not on the facts, but on partisan politics.

 

[Vidi]

I just want to know why the Dems aren't interested in the truth, why they don't give a crap about a border agent that had bean bags and rubber bullets to protect him against drug lords.

Who gives a shit what side says what, are you so blindly partisan you only see this as a them vs us problem?? Obama and his comrades have conditioned you well if you do.

I think people are failing to differentiate between the actual facts vs the way the investigation is being handled.

There absolutely needs to be accountability for the failure of this operation, but the political nature on the investigation shows that it's not about accountability but partisan politics.

Proof is in the contempt vote. Not one Republican voted against and not one Democrat voted for. That shows the vote was nothing more than a political display from BOTH sides.

 

[Truthmatters]

And that Issa stopped the investigation from reaching into areas he didnt like

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Well, good thing they interviewed the head of the ATF, huh?

Oh wait.

 

[Conservative]

And that Issa stopped the investigation from reaching into areas he didnt like

this is why the Democratic party is dying.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

Obama is Nixon, except this current version of "Tricky Dicky" is a much larger panderer. 9.5 million for each Green Energy job. Just give me the 9.5 mil straight out and I'll take care of the rest. I'll even relinquish my Social Security if and when the time doth come.

Obama as Nixon | Power Line

 

[Liability]

Fast and Furious was not the first "gunwalking" operation. But it went wrong. George W. Bush had "gunwalking" opperations under him ( at least 200 guns were lost in a Bush era gunwalking operation ) and that program was ended on Oct 6, 2007. And it SHOULD have ended there. Lesson learned.

Instead, F n F was started Oct 26, 2009. Thats a two year gap between operations. Therefore, Fast and Furious was clearly initiated on President Obamas watch. And it was the continuation of a tactic that FAILED during the Bush years. We should have known better.

"Gunwalking" was a dangerous tactic, but one that could have yielded positive results. It was extremely risky. Had it gone right, it would be a major feather in the cap of the administration. But because it went wrong, its a mark against them.

In the end though, this entire "investigation" is little more than political theatre as this investigation would NOT be happening if this occured to a Republican President with a Republican controlled house NOR would it occur if the House were Democrat and the President Democrat. Both sides would have swept it under the rug while the other minority side screamed bloody murder about it.

If folks in the Boooooosh Administration tried any version of gunwalking and realized that it was a bad idea (not to mention too difficult to actually control), then the Obama Administration effort to try a new version of gunwalking (i.e., Fast and Furious) would have to be extremely well thought out, planned, executed and much much safer.

For otherwise it would be imbecility to go that route again after it had been found so faulty.

But reality rears its ugly head and we see, instead, that the Obama Administration clusterfucks instead did a new version of gunwalking that only managed to get people killed.

The present liberal Democrat effort to differentiate is a massive partisan hack fail. For not all plans are equal and the shithead Administration, its DoJ and its inept AG ignored the lesson and made matters worse.

THEN we can discuss the coverup.

I agree that it was messed up. The Bush administration tried it, failed and abandoned it. The fact that the Obama administration thought they could take a failed tactic and succeed was arrogance, pure and simple. And as I stated, there needs to be accountability.

However, the vast majority of this thread has been focused not on the facts, but on partisan politics.

The Boooosh Administration tried something somewhat (loosely speaking) similar and did so without getting anybody killed, then they recognized it as unworkable and abandoned it.

WHY would the Obama Administration try a disjointed and previously rejected "plan" (however much they modified it?) at all?

And how is it just "partisan politics" to note those rather prominent differences?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

And that Issa stopped the investigation from reaching into areas he didnt like

You really don't have anything to say on this subject since you have already lied about it.
If you haven't lied when did fast and the furious start and who did fast and the furious start under?