Nuclear meltdown in Japan reactor?

[Ravi]

btw, it's bill of lading, fuckwit, not bill of laden.

If you had bothered to figure it out English is Polarbears second language, though I must say it is oftimes better then your command of it!

Yes...apparently he is a Nazi that is proud of the Nazi run genocide.

What I find odd is he that he has champions on this message board.

But that is totally off topic.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, there seem to be a lot of closet Nazi's here.

Odd that almost to the man, they have been downplaying the potential of this nuclear accident. Perhaps they really want to see it go bad. Kind of like ol' Rush, accuse everybody else of the emotions you harbor.

Looks like they are beginning to get a handle on some of the reactors, but one of the pools is again near boiling. This whole thing is kind of like the Perils of Pauline. Just when you think that things are improving, something else starts going wrong.

We need nuclear power as part of the mix for future clean power, but we are going to have to seriously rethink about what kind of reactors. I have seen articles that claim that a thorium reactor not only cannot 'melt down' but would 'burn' the waste that we now have in abundance. Not being a physicist, I cannot say whether this is true or not, but if it is, we need to get cracking on that.

The situation in Japan proves that the present reactors present an unacteptable risk. Murphy's Law.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Well, there seem to be a lot of closet Nazi's here.

Odd that almost to the man, they have been downplaying the potential of this nuclear accident. Perhaps they really want to see it go bad. Kind of like ol' Rush, accuse everybody else of the emotions you harbor.

Looks like they are beginning to get a handle on some of the reactors, but one of the pools is again near boiling. This whole thing is kind of like the Perils of Pauline. Just when you think that things are improving, something else starts going wrong.

We need nuclear power as part of the mix for future clean power, but we are going to have to seriously rethink about what kind of reactors. I have seen articles that claim that a thorium reactor not only cannot 'melt down' but would 'burn' the waste that we now have in abundance. Not being a physicist, I cannot say whether this is true or not, but if it is, we need to get cracking on that.

The situation in Japan proves that the present reactors present an unacteptable risk. Murphy's Law.

If they are having so much trouble controlling this thing from boiling and such . . . can they dump cement over it? I thought I read somewhere that that would resolve the heating problems? Or are they still trying to salvage the reactors (I thought once seawater was used the reactors were a lost cause?)

 

[Old Rocks]

Everything that I have read thus far states that all of the reactors are ruined for further service. As for the cement in the pools, I think the problem is getting it there.

Traker would know far more on this than most here.

 

[westwall]

btw, it's bill of lading, fuckwit, not bill of laden.

If you had bothered to figure it out English is Polarbears second language, though I must say it is oftimes better then your command of it!

Yes...apparently he is a Nazi that is proud of the Nazi run genocide.

What I find odd is he that he has champions on this message board.

But that is totally off topic.

Uhhhh, no, but nice try. PB is about as anti Nazi as they come. More so than not a few of the lefties on this board who espouse views that would have made Rheinhard Heydrich proud.

 

[westwall]

Well, there seem to be a lot of closet Nazi's here.

Odd that almost to the man, they have been downplaying the potential of this nuclear accident. Perhaps they really want to see it go bad. Kind of like ol' Rush, accuse everybody else of the emotions you harbor.

Looks like they are beginning to get a handle on some of the reactors, but one of the pools is again near boiling. This whole thing is kind of like the Perils of Pauline. Just when you think that things are improving, something else starts going wrong.

We need nuclear power as part of the mix for future clean power, but we are going to have to seriously rethink about what kind of reactors. I have seen articles that claim that a thorium reactor not only cannot 'melt down' but would 'burn' the waste that we now have in abundance. Not being a physicist, I cannot say whether this is true or not, but if it is, we need to get cracking on that.

The situation in Japan proves that the present reactors present an unacteptable risk. Murphy's Law.

No, it shows that the old reactors can take quite a hit and not do too damn bad. These are 40 year old reactors. Just imagine how much better the new ones are. The reactors in Japan are toast. They have been giving trouble for years as it is, but that is more due to human factors (allways an issue) and the wear and tear of decades.

The radiation is coming from the cooling pools that hold the spent fuel rods, not from the reactors themselves. The cooling pools have lost the water and that happened when the concrete structure blew up from a buildup of hydrogen gas. The actual reactor structures are intact.

The reason why we are trying to beat down your hysterical musings is because they are just that hysterical rantings. No one is likely to die from radiation at this plant. The worst case scenario said that 400 could die if they weren't evacuated. Well the Japanese have been evacuated so no one is likely to perish, thankfully.

In a few months the ionising radiation will have diminished to the point that cleanup can begin with no danger to the workers provided simple measures are taken to safeguard their health.

The media have whipped this up into a frenzy because they are even more clueless then the people who watch them. Here is a simple primer for those who don't know. If you are near a major nuclear accident or blast and get a heavy dose of ionising radiation you're in deep trouble. On the other hand if you don't get dosed by ionising radiation (gamma rays) and instead are around isotopes with long halflives like Strontium 90 or Cesium 137 (half lives 28+ years) you can clean the radiation off with soap and water. Don't eat it or drink it, but you can protect yourself from the radiation that they emit with a sheet of paper.

 

[westwall]

Well, there seem to be a lot of closet Nazi's here.

Odd that almost to the man, they have been downplaying the potential of this nuclear accident. Perhaps they really want to see it go bad. Kind of like ol' Rush, accuse everybody else of the emotions you harbor.

Looks like they are beginning to get a handle on some of the reactors, but one of the pools is again near boiling. This whole thing is kind of like the Perils of Pauline. Just when you think that things are improving, something else starts going wrong.

We need nuclear power as part of the mix for future clean power, but we are going to have to seriously rethink about what kind of reactors. I have seen articles that claim that a thorium reactor not only cannot 'melt down' but would 'burn' the waste that we now have in abundance. Not being a physicist, I cannot say whether this is true or not, but if it is, we need to get cracking on that.

The situation in Japan proves that the present reactors present an unacteptable risk. Murphy's Law.

If they are having so much trouble controlling this thing from boiling and such . . . can they dump cement over it? I thought I read somewhere that that would resolve the heating problems? Or are they still trying to salvage the reactors (I thought once seawater was used the reactors were a lost cause?)

The involved reactors are toast. They are not what is causing the problem though. The cooling pools that contain the spent fuel rods are what they are bombarding with water. As far as the reactors go, the whole plant will most probably be decomissioned as it has been plagued with problems for years.

 

[martybegan]

Well, there seem to be a lot of closet Nazi's here.

Odd that almost to the man, they have been downplaying the potential of this nuclear accident. Perhaps they really want to see it go bad. Kind of like ol' Rush, accuse everybody else of the emotions you harbor.

Looks like they are beginning to get a handle on some of the reactors, but one of the pools is again near boiling. This whole thing is kind of like the Perils of Pauline. Just when you think that things are improving, something else starts going wrong.

We need nuclear power as part of the mix for future clean power, but we are going to have to seriously rethink about what kind of reactors. I have seen articles that claim that a thorium reactor not only cannot 'melt down' but would 'burn' the waste that we now have in abundance. Not being a physicist, I cannot say whether this is true or not, but if it is, we need to get cracking on that.

The situation in Japan proves that the present reactors present an unacteptable risk. Murphy's Law.

If they are having so much trouble controlling this thing from boiling and such . . . can they dump cement over it? I thought I read somewhere that that would resolve the heating problems? Or are they still trying to salvage the reactors (I thought once seawater was used the reactors were a lost cause?)

The involved reactors are toast. They are not what is causing the problem though. The cooling pools that contain the spent fuel rods are what they are bombarding with water. As far as the reactors go, the whole plant will most probably be decomissioned as it has been plagued with problems for years.

The two oldest reactors were due for decomissoning at the end of the month anyway (sad timing there). I dont think we really know the core conditions until they can get something inside (robotic?) to look at the fuel rods. The majority of the radiation may be from the spent fuel rods.

 

[monendo]

I am not a nuclear scientist but from what I have been seeing on the news the problem at the reactor is that because the pumps are not working the pools of water are drying up. Why don't they build these reactors below see level with a pipe or channel leading out to the ocean and in the event of a emergency like this simply open values a flood reactor with water preventing a melt down. Can anyone tell me why this would not work?

 

[Synthaholic]

Polarbear: nice little meltdown. I have no idea who you are and I have no interest in knowing.

Hmmm. You causing meltdowns to destroy the Polarbear, Ravi? *tsk, tsk* You are a bad person. I just hope you didn't neg him 4 times in 5 minutes. That would be really cruel.

Wow. The sheer gall is astounding.

 

[Chris]

As for the plant's six reactors, Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency official Hidehiko Nishiyama said Wednesday that power had been connected to reactor No. 1 and fire trucks were being used to inject seawater into the core to cool it.

The International Atomic Energy Agency reported Tuesday that coolant in the unit was covering only about half of the fuel rods in reactor Nos., 1, 2 and 3 and that Japanese officials believe their cores have been damaged.

In the No. 2 reactor, power had not been restored, but the core was stable and workers were continuing to inject seawater into the spent-fuel storage pool, he said.

The IAEA said that, after an explosion March 15, officials expressed concern that the containment vessel may no longer be intact.

In the No. 3 reactor, electricity has been restored to the central control room and the Tokyo Fire Department was expected to start spraying water into the spent-fuel storage pool beginning at 4 p.m. Wednesday, Nishiyama said.

The No. 3 reactor has been a priority for authorities trying to contain damage to the plant and stave off a possible meltdown. Its fuel includes plutonium mixed with the uranium in its fuel rods, which experts say could cause more harm than regular uranium fuels in the event of a meltdown.

In the No. 4 reactor, power was connected to the control board; because the reactor has no fuel rods, the focus was on continuing spraying rods in the spent-fuel pool, he said.

Power has also been connected to the No. 5 and No. 6 reactors, he said.

Vegetables near stricken plant test high for radiation - CNN.com

 

[Valerie]

BEDFORD (CBS) — The Bedford, Mass. company i-Robot is about to be on the frontlines of Japan‘s nuclear crisis.

Japanese officials asked for help from the company and -iRobot is sending two “Warriors” and two “Packbots.” Together they’re worth about $750,000. Six volunteers will also go over to help train people how to use the robots.

Exactly how the robots will be used hasn’t been determined yet, but company officials say they’re ready for anything. The “Packbot” comes with a hazmat package and can detect chemical, biological and radiological elements.

The “Warrior” is for areas that are tough to get to, like rugged terrain and through rubble, even up stairs.

Mass. Company Sending Robots To Japan « CBS Boston

 

[Ravi]

That's pretty cool. Earlier I read they were using sand bags to keep the contaminated water from overflowing.

From low tech to high tech...I sincerely believe they haven't got a clue about how to get a handle on this.

 

[Valerie]

That's pretty cool. Earlier I read they were using sand bags to keep the contaminated water from overflowing.

From low tech to high tech...I sincerely believe they haven't got a clue about how to get a handle on this.

The “Packbot” comes with a hazmat package and can detect chemical, biological and radiological elements.


Using the robots, says Wong, will let operators stay at a safe distance while investigating nuclear situations or conducting search and rescue operations. The robots have been used by the military for some time and have survived through some of the roughest terrain.

“One of the main purposes of these robots is to save lives,” said Alex Wong, a software engineer at the company. “Over the last couple of days we’ve heard of humans going into the nuclear reactor area with lots of radiation.”

On Friday the International Atomic Energy Agency upgraded the level of severity at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after more failed attempts to cool down its reactors.

Mass. Company Sending Robots To Japan « CBS Boston

 

[Chris]

That's pretty cool. Earlier I read they were using sand bags to keep the contaminated water from overflowing.

From low tech to high tech...I sincerely believe they haven't got a clue about how to get a handle on this.

Exactly.

 

[Liability]

Let's see. A meltdown bad enough to melt through the containment vessel. It hit concrete. The concrete is reinforced and all, but may have been damaged by some of the explosions. We KNOW some highly radioactive water has gotten out. We cannot establish how bad it is. But we DO know that we have to keep dumping water on the molten mess to cool it down and we also know that this releases radioactive steam (and perhaps radioactive water itself). so they are now engaged in a devil's trade-off. Keep the meltdown as cool as possible, but pay the piper in the form of more radioactive steam and probable radioactive leakage.

100,000 TIMES normal.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

I support nuclear energy. But it sure seems silly to deny the evidence right under our noses. The mess in Japan is perhaps not on the same level as Chernobyl. That's nice. But it's still pretty fucking bad and there are still no guarantees that it can't get worse.

We also know that it should NEVER have been able to get THIS bad. Yet, here we are.

And can anybody tell me what time and date the next big Earthquake hits that region? I ask on the hunch that it might just -- you know -- kind of matter.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yes, an after shock of 7 to 8 would not be unheard of. And that could completely wreak havoc with their efforts were in centered nearby.

All indications are that one or more of the reactors is leaking, perhaps through the graphite rod seals, and that they cannot cease to pump water in, thereby creating more radioactive water below the reactors, without risking a catastrophic meltdown.

100,000 times normal. A years normal dose in the space of 15 minutes. A point here. Why is there no counters in place and broadcasting data without the neccessity of people going in with a meter? In a country that makes millions of toys that are remote controled, it would seem to me to be an easy thing to do. Perhaps they really don't want to know how 'hot' it is closer in to the reactor?

 

[Ravi]

It sounds like using salt water was a mistake...did they not know that ahead of time?

 

[Valerie]

It sounds like using salt water was a mistake...did they not know that ahead of time?

It was an act of desperation.

 

[Liability]

It sounds like using salt water was a mistake...did they not know that ahead of time?

My understanding is that they very well knew that using salt water was a horrible idea. But, it also seems that as bad as it was, it was better than not at least trying to cool down the rods.

What a cluster fuck.

I don't care what the news folks are saying. It seems quite clear that this Japanese meltdown problem is FAR from over. And it is certainly possible -- maybe even likely -- that it is going to get much worse before a solution worthy of the name is implemented.

The price that is going to be paid is not yet known. But the price SEEMS to include a lot of people getting very very sick. It may also involve (albeit on a hopefully very diluted scale) an increase in radiation world wide.

Can anybody actually tell us what the increased radiation in the North Pacific Ocean is going to do to marine life around Japan? How far will that radiation spread? How much time before marine vegetation and other marine life soak up significant dosages of the radioactive iodine and cesium? How long before that becomes part of the food chain? And then what?