NSA ceases extremely effective and totally legal program.

[SavannahMann]

I guess we should post the link and then the rant.

N.S.A. Halts Collection of Americans’ Emails About Foreign Targets

Now the program in question collected and stored the email, tweets, text messages, and social media posts where a name or other information of a terrorist or suspected terrorist sympathizer is mentioned.

Opponents of this program have long complained that the program is a violation of the fourth amendment as it targets content and not individuals. So what is the difference you might ask?

Let's say the police in your town hear that the drug kingpin is storing the drugs in a blue couch. They don't know where this couch is. They are sure it is blue. The Judge issues a warrant allowing the police to search all Blue couches in the city.

What does the Fourth Amendment say again?


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So the person to be searched is every blue couch. That which is going to be seized is drugs. That would be an unconstitutional search. You don't issue warrants for content. Showing up st someone's door and demanding to see their couch would be criminal.

That has always been my problem with the NSA collection methods. At best they are a perversion of the Civil Rights that are a vital part of the Constitution I swore an oath to defend. At worst they are a direct violation of those rights.

There is no reason to fear. The NSA is ceasing this extremely effective and totally legal program. Why you might ask? Well it turns out their analysts have been accessing the messages improperly and they can't figure out how to do it the right way.

Let me translate. They are going to keep doing it while pretending to stop. Later when someone leaks that the NSA is doing it they will denounce the leaker as a traitor.

It's funny. The argument in favor of these kinds of programs is always the same. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. Yet when the program is exposed the baddie is the one who exposed it. Why? If the NSA wasn't doing anything wrong, they don't have anything to fear with the truth coming out right?

 

[Godboy]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

 

[SavannahMann]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

 

[Godboy]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

 

[SavannahMann]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

 

[Divine Wind]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

I agree here. We violated Franklin's comment about giving up liberty for the illusion of security when, as a nation, we screamed for Washington DC to save us after 9/11. The result was a loss of rights through the Patriot Act.

 

[Godboy]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

Oh, let me elaborate....

Making guns illegal doesnt stop criminals from using them. Telling everyone that the NSA looks for emails with terrorist names in them, makes terrorists stop using names that will flag their email. Your silly comparison to the 2nd Amendment was fucking terrible.

As for your service, it doesnt give you a free pass on being an idiot. I served too, but you dont see me trying to use it as a shield against rebuttals. Yes, i know thats why you slipped that in there.

The truth is, your emails are more important to you than the lives of strangers. That is simply a fact, which doesnt say anything good about your character.

 

[Godboy]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

I agree here. We violated Franklin's comment about giving up liberty for the illusion of security when, as a nation, we screamed for Washington DC to save us after 9/11. The result was a loss of rights through the Patriot Act.

How has the Patriot Act affected your personal life? That question was rhetorical; we all know it hasnt.

 

[SavannahMann]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

Oh, let me elaborate....

Making guns illegal doesnt stop criminals from using them. Telling everyone that the NSA looks for emails with terrorist names in them, makes terrorists stop using names that will flag their email. Your silly comparison to the 2nd Amendment was fucking terrible.

As for your service, it doesnt give you a free pass on being an idiot. I served too, but you dont see me trying to use it as a shield against rebuttals. Yes, i know thats why you slipped that in there.

The truth is, your emails are more important to you than the lives of strangers. That is simply a fact, which doesnt say anything good about your character.

No, the Constitution is more important than a few lives. What are we if we get rid of our rules? What made us better than the Soviets? Was it merely the different economic systems?

1936 Constitution of the USSR, Part I

The difference was that we believed in and upheld our laws on rights of the citizens. They were not just words. Without those limits then the Constitution is merely propaganda that is written in pencil for all intents and purposes.

We believed in freedom of the press. We believed in the right to an attorney. The Miranda warning in the Soviet Union was scream all you want, we don't care.

All the things you think we should be doing were done and didn't help the Soviets to victory. The KGB was one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the world and they didn't win. Because we were free.

We can insure the next generation is free. We can work to defend their rights. We can strive to protect them within the rules. But those rules are what matters. We were in danger of becoming more Soviet after 9-11. We threw those rules out. Thankfully we got some of our sense back.

You can not protect me from terrorists. You can't protect anyone. Boston should have driven that lesson home. The reality is that we are no safer now than we were fifteen years ago.

All the programs to spy on everyone are jobs programs for perverts. People who thirty years ago were peeking in the windows of neighbors with telescopes. They don't catch jack shit.

NSA program stopped no terror attacks, says White House panel member - NBC News

The ends never justify the means. Especially when the ends are never reached.

 

[SavannahMann]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

I agree here. We violated Franklin's comment about giving up liberty for the illusion of security when, as a nation, we screamed for Washington DC to save us after 9/11. The result was a loss of rights through the Patriot Act.

How has the Patriot Act affected your personal life? That question was rhetorical; we all know it hasnt.

It has. We all have GPS chips in our phones. For our protection supposedly. Yet it doesn't do anything but allow the police to track us by pretending to be a cell tower.

I have to round up tons of documents to prove who I am, none of which actually does it, for a REAL ID approved drivers license. Who can say if the birth certificate is actually mine. It doesn't prove who I am. I could be using a stolen birth certificate to establish a fake ID.

I have to pay hundreds of dollars for Homeland Security Background checks to drive trucks.

How to Apply for a Hazardous Materials Endorsement | DMV.org Articles

So the PATRIOT ACT has cost me time, money, and annoyance.

 

[Divine Wind]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

I agree here. We violated Franklin's comment about giving up liberty for the illusion of security when, as a nation, we screamed for Washington DC to save us after 9/11. The result was a loss of rights through the Patriot Act.

How has the Patriot Act affected your personal life? That question was rhetorical; we all know it hasnt.

It's weakened the Constitution. Never a good thing in the long run. Giving the Feds more power over "We, the People" is not what the Founders intended.

 

[Godboy]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

Oh, let me elaborate....

Making guns illegal doesnt stop criminals from using them. Telling everyone that the NSA looks for emails with terrorist names in them, makes terrorists stop using names that will flag their email. Your silly comparison to the 2nd Amendment was fucking terrible.

As for your service, it doesnt give you a free pass on being an idiot. I served too, but you dont see me trying to use it as a shield against rebuttals. Yes, i know thats why you slipped that in there.

The truth is, your emails are more important to you than the lives of strangers. That is simply a fact, which doesnt say anything good about your character.

No, the Constitution is more important than a few lives. What are we if we get rid of our rules? What made us better than the Soviets? Was it merely the different economic systems?

1936 Constitution of the USSR, Part I

The difference was that we believed in and upheld our laws on rights of the citizens. They were not just words. Without those limits then the Constitution is merely propaganda that is written in pencil for all intents and purposes.

We believed in freedom of the press. We believed in the right to an attorney. The Miranda warning in the Soviet Union was scream all you want, we don't care.

All the things you think we should be doing were done and didn't help the Soviets to victory. The KGB was one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the world and they didn't win. Because we were free.

We can insure the next generation is free. We can work to defend their rights. We can strive to protect them within the rules. But those rules are what matters. We were in danger of becoming more Soviet after 9-11. We threw those rules out. Thankfully we got some of our sense back.

You can not protect me from terrorists. You can't protect anyone. Boston should have driven that lesson home. The reality is that we are no safer now than we were fifteen years ago.

All the programs to spy on everyone are jobs programs for perverts. People who thirty years ago were peeking in the windows of neighbors with telescopes. They don't catch jack shit.

NSA program stopped no terror attacks, says White House panel member - NBC News

The ends never justify the means. Especially when the ends are never reached.

Why make such a long post when you could have just said "my emails are more important than the lives of strangers"?

 

[SavannahMann]

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

Oh, let me elaborate....

Making guns illegal doesnt stop criminals from using them. Telling everyone that the NSA looks for emails with terrorist names in them, makes terrorists stop using names that will flag their email. Your silly comparison to the 2nd Amendment was fucking terrible.

As for your service, it doesnt give you a free pass on being an idiot. I served too, but you dont see me trying to use it as a shield against rebuttals. Yes, i know thats why you slipped that in there.

The truth is, your emails are more important to you than the lives of strangers. That is simply a fact, which doesnt say anything good about your character.

No, the Constitution is more important than a few lives. What are we if we get rid of our rules? What made us better than the Soviets? Was it merely the different economic systems?

1936 Constitution of the USSR, Part I

The difference was that we believed in and upheld our laws on rights of the citizens. They were not just words. Without those limits then the Constitution is merely propaganda that is written in pencil for all intents and purposes.

We believed in freedom of the press. We believed in the right to an attorney. The Miranda warning in the Soviet Union was scream all you want, we don't care.

All the things you think we should be doing were done and didn't help the Soviets to victory. The KGB was one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the world and they didn't win. Because we were free.

We can insure the next generation is free. We can work to defend their rights. We can strive to protect them within the rules. But those rules are what matters. We were in danger of becoming more Soviet after 9-11. We threw those rules out. Thankfully we got some of our sense back.

You can not protect me from terrorists. You can't protect anyone. Boston should have driven that lesson home. The reality is that we are no safer now than we were fifteen years ago.

All the programs to spy on everyone are jobs programs for perverts. People who thirty years ago were peeking in the windows of neighbors with telescopes. They don't catch jack shit.

NSA program stopped no terror attacks, says White House panel member - NBC News

The ends never justify the means. Especially when the ends are never reached.

Why make such a long post when you could have just said "my emails are more important than the lives of strangers"?

So that others besides you could read and learn.

Tell you what. Prove to me that your argument does not apply to the other rights. Why are my Second Amendment rights more important than the lives of staggers.

 

[Divine Wind]

Why make such a long post when you could have just said "my emails are more important than the lives of strangers"?

Dude, that's SOP twisting of facts to fit a political agenda. It's not just one person's Constitutional rights being affected here; it's every American's rights and all of those to come. Do you really believe the WOT will end in our lifetime? If not, then you are signing on to shred parts of the Constitution for the illusion of safety from terrorists.

 

[SavannahMann]

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

Oh, let me elaborate....

Making guns illegal doesnt stop criminals from using them. Telling everyone that the NSA looks for emails with terrorist names in them, makes terrorists stop using names that will flag their email. Your silly comparison to the 2nd Amendment was fucking terrible.

As for your service, it doesnt give you a free pass on being an idiot. I served too, but you dont see me trying to use it as a shield against rebuttals. Yes, i know thats why you slipped that in there.

The truth is, your emails are more important to you than the lives of strangers. That is simply a fact, which doesnt say anything good about your character.

No, the Constitution is more important than a few lives. What are we if we get rid of our rules? What made us better than the Soviets? Was it merely the different economic systems?

1936 Constitution of the USSR, Part I

The difference was that we believed in and upheld our laws on rights of the citizens. They were not just words. Without those limits then the Constitution is merely propaganda that is written in pencil for all intents and purposes.

We believed in freedom of the press. We believed in the right to an attorney. The Miranda warning in the Soviet Union was scream all you want, we don't care.

All the things you think we should be doing were done and didn't help the Soviets to victory. The KGB was one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the world and they didn't win. Because we were free.

We can insure the next generation is free. We can work to defend their rights. We can strive to protect them within the rules. But those rules are what matters. We were in danger of becoming more Soviet after 9-11. We threw those rules out. Thankfully we got some of our sense back.

You can not protect me from terrorists. You can't protect anyone. Boston should have driven that lesson home. The reality is that we are no safer now than we were fifteen years ago.

All the programs to spy on everyone are jobs programs for perverts. People who thirty years ago were peeking in the windows of neighbors with telescopes. They don't catch jack shit.

NSA program stopped no terror attacks, says White House panel member - NBC News

The ends never justify the means. Especially when the ends are never reached.

Why make such a long post when you could have just said "my emails are more important than the lives of strangers"?

How about the First Amendment. Since the Terrorists wouldn't know about the program in the first place if it wasn't for the press why not have a Board of Censors who approve every story? That doesn't solve the Internet, so we will have to have a whole new bureaucracy to censor the Web. We could make it life without any lawyers involved for violating the censorship laws.

 

[SavannahMann]

Preposterous. I know people are going to die by a gunshot in the next few minutes. I know dozens will die this weekend. I am not about to abandon the Second Amendment because someone will be shot and killed. Even if it is a child or a relative of mine. I know that.

When I was in the Army I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution. I was taught to refuse illegal orders, and I was trained to know the difference.

The program now is not useless. The NSA categorizes it as Extremely Effective. It is unconstitutional. But we are back to that whole support and defend the constitution argument.

It is a dangerous world. But what makes America? Is it our weapons? Is it just bullets and bombs that define us? Or is it a set of principles that were laid down and made the foundation of our nation? We are the First Nation to argue that rights were not granted by the Government but bestowed upon us by providence and defended by the populace.

The problem with your argument is that it is one of moral bankruptcy. The ends never justify the means. The what you do is as important as the why.

The fourth amendment is not merely a suggestion. It was put in place because the British were doing what you say the NSA should be allowed to do. We aren't safer. The only Terrorist Attacks that have been foiled are ones that the citizens detected. Not the NSA or CIA. So the ends are questionable and the means are even more so.

But you don't realize how asinine your argument is. The same argument can be made for the first, second, fifth, sixth, and many others. The adherence to those principles cost us, and we could reduce the cost in lives if we ignored or redefined the rights.

You will always find me on the other side of that argument. I will always argue that the rights are more important than anything else. Because the one gift I can give the next generation is freedom.

To be alive and a prisoner of a totalitarian regime is no gift. Especially when that totalitarian regime can not guarantee that the subject will be alive.

BUUUULLLLL SHIIIIT

What is Bullshit? You don't like your argument being shown as at best nonsense?

Oh, let me elaborate....

Making guns illegal doesnt stop criminals from using them. Telling everyone that the NSA looks for emails with terrorist names in them, makes terrorists stop using names that will flag their email. Your silly comparison to the 2nd Amendment was fucking terrible.

As for your service, it doesnt give you a free pass on being an idiot. I served too, but you dont see me trying to use it as a shield against rebuttals. Yes, i know thats why you slipped that in there.

The truth is, your emails are more important to you than the lives of strangers. That is simply a fact, which doesnt say anything good about your character.

No, the Constitution is more important than a few lives. What are we if we get rid of our rules? What made us better than the Soviets? Was it merely the different economic systems?

1936 Constitution of the USSR, Part I

The difference was that we believed in and upheld our laws on rights of the citizens. They were not just words. Without those limits then the Constitution is merely propaganda that is written in pencil for all intents and purposes.

We believed in freedom of the press. We believed in the right to an attorney. The Miranda warning in the Soviet Union was scream all you want, we don't care.

All the things you think we should be doing were done and didn't help the Soviets to victory. The KGB was one of the most effective intelligence agencies in the world and they didn't win. Because we were free.

We can insure the next generation is free. We can work to defend their rights. We can strive to protect them within the rules. But those rules are what matters. We were in danger of becoming more Soviet after 9-11. We threw those rules out. Thankfully we got some of our sense back.

You can not protect me from terrorists. You can't protect anyone. Boston should have driven that lesson home. The reality is that we are no safer now than we were fifteen years ago.

All the programs to spy on everyone are jobs programs for perverts. People who thirty years ago were peeking in the windows of neighbors with telescopes. They don't catch jack shit.

NSA program stopped no terror attacks, says White House panel member - NBC News

The ends never justify the means. Especially when the ends are never reached.

Why make such a long post when you could have just said "my emails are more important than the lives of strangers"?

Hey. Why not get rid of those pesky fifth amendment rights? I mean they won't affect me personally. Isn't that the standard we are supposed to use? Why are you unwilling to discuss the rest of the bill of rights the way you dismiss the fourth amendment?

 

[flacaltenn]

The "truth coming out" completely removes any effectiveness the program once had.

Here's a fact... people are going to die from terrorist attacks, but chances are it won't be YOU. This is why it's easy for people to whine about the NSAs tactics. If you KNEW your child was going to be killed by a terrorist, you would want the NSA to do everything in their power to stop it, but since you know it won't affect you personally, you don't give a shit. YOUR only concern is only about someone reading your boring fucking email; to he'll with the poor souls who are actually going to die.

It's a selfish position to take.

Heck no.. Because it's being abused for purposes not related at ALL to keeping Islamists from blowing things up. Which was the fear all along. There should be NO domestic intelligence operations by the "intelligence" agencies. It should be done thru any or all of the 4 or 6 "counter terrorism" centers that are controlled by DHS or FBI.

There needs to be a prohibition on unleashing those awesome powers on the American people. Because SHOULD IT BE USED for political purposes or expanded to categories beyond Islamic terrorists --- as many suspect it just was --- it could EASILY topple the Republic and bring us to chaos..

 

[flacaltenn]

And they are not gonna "cease" recordings and collections. That ship has sailed. This is all just for show after being CAUGHT expanding the access to "query and process" the system that ended up in the hands of political hacks.

The public will never KNOW the results of that scandal. This is just part of the "optics" for the "fix"...