NRA General Counsel Robert Dowlut Convicted of Murder

[JoeB131]

But you

11,000 gun murders out of 300 million people vs. 250 murders out of 80 million people.

Yeah. The Germans are doing it right.

NICS background checks are inadequate if Cho, Loughner and Holmes can get guns.

Then feel free to move to Germany or to try and get a constitutional amendment to remove the 2nd Amendment. (probably more luck moving)

Then make sure the mental health community reports the dangerously insane. Previously in the thread you were talking about not wanting to stigmatize these nutballs, so they would get help. Now they are the weak spots in the system? lol

Guy, we don't need to Amend the second. Just get non-retarded SCOTUS justices who ignore the "Well-Regulated Militia" part.

I don't think the Mental Health Community was aware of either Cho or Holmes, but their schools were. Which is why you need a thorough background check.

You see, this is why I want for gun shops to own mass shootings. Then you won't have conversations like this.

Holmes - "I'd like an AR-15 and a 100 Round Drum Magazine please."

Gun Shop Owner - "Here you are, my good man. And Might I say that's a great Joker Costume!"

 

[JoeB131]

11,000 gun murders out of 300 million people vs. 250 murders out of 80 million people.

Yeah. The Germans are doing it right.

NICS background checks are inadequate if Cho, Loughner and Holmes can get guns.

There are, as I have said before, major cultural differences between the US and Germany. Yet you still want to treat them as if they are exactly the same.

Funny that you want to ignore cultural difference, until you want to use them to bolster your argument.

The cultural differences between the US and Japan were not relevant when discussing guns, but they make all the difference when discussing suicides. Hilarious.

No, It's pure math.

Japan - 80,000 privately owned guns for 110,000,000 people. 11 Gun Murders.

Germany 8,000,000 guns for 80,000,000 people. 250 gun murders

America - 300,000,000 guns for 300,000,000 people. 11,500 gun murders.

 

[WinterBorn]

But you

11,000 gun murders out of 300 million people vs. 250 murders out of 80 million people.

Yeah. The Germans are doing it right.

NICS background checks are inadequate if Cho, Loughner and Holmes can get guns.

Then feel free to move to Germany or to try and get a constitutional amendment to remove the 2nd Amendment. (probably more luck moving)

Then make sure the mental health community reports the dangerously insane. Previously in the thread you were talking about not wanting to stigmatize these nutballs, so they would get help. Now they are the weak spots in the system? lol

Guy, we don't need to Amend the second. Just get non-retarded SCOTUS justices who ignore the "Well-Regulated Militia" part.

I don't think the Mental Health Community was aware of either Cho or Holmes, but their schools were. Which is why you need a thorough background check.

You see, this is why I want for gun shops to own mass shootings. Then you won't have conversations like this.

Holmes - "I'd like an AR-15 and a 100 Round Drum Magazine please."

Gun Shop Owner - "Here you are, my good man. And Might I say that's a great Joker Costume!"

No way that is happening. You are then liable for what you could not have possibly known. You are expecting gun shop owners to be psychiatrists? No. There is not a single precedent for that type of liability.

The SCOTUS does not ignore the Well-Regulated Militia. They just know, from reading the papaers of those who write the constitution and the first 10 amendments, that there was an expectation to form a militia as needed, from armed citizens. And since the entire point of the Bill of Rights is to protect the rights of the individual against encroachment by the gov't, to claim the 2nd speaks of building a standing army is ridiculous.

And the SCOTUS has never ruled that the 2nd is anything but an individual right. Even the Miller case you quoted yesterday did not remove guns from citizens.

 

[WinterBorn]

11,000 gun murders out of 300 million people vs. 250 murders out of 80 million people.

Yeah. The Germans are doing it right.

NICS background checks are inadequate if Cho, Loughner and Holmes can get guns.

There are, as I have said before, major cultural differences between the US and Germany. Yet you still want to treat them as if they are exactly the same.

Funny that you want to ignore cultural difference, until you want to use them to bolster your argument.

The cultural differences between the US and Japan were not relevant when discussing guns, but they make all the difference when discussing suicides. Hilarious.

No, It's pure math.

Japan - 80,000 privately owned guns for 110,000,000 people. 11 Gun Murders.

Germany 8,000,000 guns for 80,000,000 people. 250 gun murders

America - 300,000,000 guns for 300,000,000 people. 11,500 gun murders.

And yet, the Japanese suicide rate is because of cultural differences, right?

 

[WinterBorn]

11,000 gun murders out of 300 million people vs. 250 murders out of 80 million people.

Yeah. The Germans are doing it right.

NICS background checks are inadequate if Cho, Loughner and Holmes can get guns.

There are, as I have said before, major cultural differences between the US and Germany. Yet you still want to treat them as if they are exactly the same.

Funny that you want to ignore cultural difference, until you want to use them to bolster your argument.

The cultural differences between the US and Japan were not relevant when discussing guns, but they make all the difference when discussing suicides. Hilarious.

No, It's pure math.

Japan - 80,000 privately owned guns for 110,000,000 people. 11 Gun Murders.

Germany 8,000,000 guns for 80,000,000 people. 250 gun murders

America - 300,000,000 guns for 300,000,000 people. 11,500 gun murders.

In Germany 0.0031% of teh privately owned guns have been used to murder someone.
In the US 0.0037% of the privately owned guns have been used in a murder.

 

[2aguy]

No, It's pure math.

Japan - 80,000 privately owned guns for 110,000,000 people. 11 Gun Murders.

Germany 8,000,000 guns for 80,000,000 people. 250 gun murders

America - 300,000,000 guns for 300,000,000 people. 11,500 gun murders.

Ahhh...you forgot to list the other side of the equation...gun grabbers always do...how many lives are saved and crimes are stopped by regular people who own and carry guns...250-370,000 each year...and that is only one estimate and it is probably low...a lot of defensive gun uses go unreported because when you make the criminal run away by letting him know you are armed and won't be a victim...it doesn't get counted because those go unreported...

Also, 250-370,000 lives saved and crimes stopped only accounts for those who directly encounter the violent criminal...there are also the lives saved when the victim shoots or captures the criminal...

For example...the woman with the concealed carry permit who was raped on a college campus because it was a "gun free zone,"...so she left her gun at home...and was raped by a violent criminal...who had a gun...in the gun free zone...she stated in her testimony before the state congress that had she had her gun...she would have stopped the guy...and if she had he would not have raped two other women, killing the second victim...

So to recap...

11,500 gun murders by violent criminals who can't own guns vs. 250-370,000 lives saved and crimes stopped by regular people armed with guns...

Hmmm...again... 11,500 murders....vs...250-370,000 lives saved and crimes stopped...

Also...do you know how Japan keeps their murder rate down so low...a virtual police state...police can stop and search you whenever they want...they can inspect your home when they want...police often use force to get confessions...and judges let it happen...so say all you want, the same gun grabbers who would love to disarm people would kick and scream at the level of police power to keep guns out of the hands of regular people...here is a look at that...

For Japan...people control is how they achieve gun control...think about that liberals...

Japan Gun Control and People Control

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

I know, I know...the liberals in the audience are looking at that with tears in their eyes...thinking...why can't we have a government that loves us that much...

I don't get how liberals think...

And to the ability of police to search you...

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

 

[JoeB131]

[

And the SCOTUS has never ruled that the 2nd is anything but an individual right. Even the Miller case you quoted yesterday did not remove guns from citizens.

But it did say that government had a right to regulate what kid of weapons a citizen could have.

I don't worry about what a bunch of slave rapists were thinking 200 years ago. They weren't handing out guns to their slaves, after all.

I worry about what works well in the here and now. And, yes, if the SCOTUS is just who can get the most votes on something, I hope for the day Scalia takes a dirt nap and Hillary appoints his replacement.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

And the SCOTUS has never ruled that the 2nd is anything but an individual right. Even the Miller case you quoted yesterday did not remove guns from citizens.

But it did say that government had a right to regulate what kid of weapons a citizen could have.

I don't worry about what a bunch of slave rapists were thinking 200 years ago. They weren't handing out guns to their slaves, after all.

I worry about what works well in the here and now. And, yes, if the SCOTUS is just who can get the most votes on something, I hope for the day Scalia takes a dirt nap and Hillary appoints his replacement.

It said that the gov't gets a tax stamp paid for certain weapons. That was the biggest thing it did.

It was about revenue.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

 

[2aguy]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

Hmmm...I bet you support the current democrat in office...the guy who represents the entire political party that defended slavery to the point they went to war to preserve it, wanted to extend slavery into all new states in the Union, wanted to restart the slave trade with Africa...and when the Republicans beat them, and freed the slaves, the democrats,the party of the current president, created the terrorist group the ku klux klan to murder newly freed slaves and their Republican allies, created Jim Crow, used lynching and bombs to keep them from voting...

so you keep voting for members of that party...while you criticize people from two hundred years ago...

And by the way...those toys freed the slaves and were used to fight off the democrat terrorist group, the klan...so is that why democrats don't like guns...they helped free their slaves?

liberals think funny...

 

[WinterBorn]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

I will. And so will most constitutional scholars.

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect our country from tyranny, both inside and out.

 

[ChrisL]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

What an ignorant, hateful and childish comment.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

I will. And so will most constitutional scholars.

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect our country from tyranny, both inside and out.

No, it wasn't. It was to protect the right of states to maintain militias. which became a moot point when Militias were replaced by the National Guard.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

Hmmm...I bet you support the current democrat in office...the guy who represents the entire political party that defended slavery to the point they went to war to preserve it, wanted to extend slavery into all new states in the Union, wanted to restart the slave trade with Africa...and when the Republicans beat them, and freed the slaves, the democrats,the party of the current president, created the terrorist group the ku klux klan to murder newly freed slaves and their Republican allies, created Jim Crow, used lynching and bombs to keep them from voting...

so you keep voting for members of that party...while you criticize people from two hundred years ago...

And by the way...those toys freed the slaves and were used to fight off the democrat terrorist group, the klan...so is that why democrats don't like guns...they helped free their slaves?

liberals think funny...

Guy, are you trying to fool anyone? BOTH political parties were racist as shit in 1860. and they pretty much stayed that way up until 1964 or so.

And when the Democrats told the Racists to get lost, the GOP welcomed them with open arms.

And to day they scratch their heads and wonder why people of color won't vote for them...

 

[WinterBorn]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

I will. And so will most constitutional scholars.

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect our country from tyranny, both inside and out.

No, it wasn't. It was to protect the right of states to maintain militias. which became a moot point when Militias were replaced by the National Guard.

The entire purpose of the Bill of rights was to protect rights of the citizens, not the rights of the states or of the federal gov't.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

I will. And so will most constitutional scholars.

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect our country from tyranny, both inside and out.

No, it wasn't. It was to protect the right of states to maintain militias. which became a moot point when Militias were replaced by the National Guard.

The entire purpose of the Bill of rights was to protect rights of the citizens, not the rights of the states or of the federal gov't.

That's an opinion, yes.

Here's kind of my thing. Back in 1787, when you were a rich slave rapist and you had to worry about slave revolts and native Americans who didn't take to well to the genocide thing, it almost made sense to have a gun.

Today we have professional armies and modern police forces. There no real good reason for Nancy Lanza to be armed like the Zombies are coming.

(Oops, Did I just insult your pinup girl again?)

 

[WinterBorn]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

I will. And so will most constitutional scholars.

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect our country from tyranny, both inside and out.

No, it wasn't. It was to protect the right of states to maintain militias. which became a moot point when Militias were replaced by the National Guard.

The entire purpose of the Bill of rights was to protect rights of the citizens, not the rights of the states or of the federal gov't.

That's an opinion, yes.

Here's kind of my thing. Back in 1787, when you were a rich slave rapist and you had to worry about slave revolts and native Americans who didn't take to well to the genocide thing, it almost made sense to have a gun.

Today we have professional armies and modern police forces. There no real good reason for Nancy Lanza to be armed like the Zombies are coming.

(Oops, Did I just insult your pinup girl again?)

Given the number of times every year that armed citizens stop crimes, I think your claim that there is no need for privately owned firearms is ridiculous.

The only insult in your post is to your own intelligence if you are still maintaining that the inventory from Lanza's home shows her to be a prepper. Because it most definitally does not.

And your thing is absolutely wrong. The first 10 amendments to the US Constitution, otherwise known as the Bill of Rights, enumerate set rights for the people. Not rights for a gov't (state or federal), but rights for the people.

If you want to try for a constitutional amendment, knock yourself out. But you know that will never get the votes it needs. The American people will not disarm because a few cowards think they have the answers to crimes committed by a tiny minority of private gun owners.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, we don't need an amendment. We just need a non-Retarded SCOTUS.

 

[WinterBorn]

Guy, we don't need an amendment. We just need a non-Retarded SCOTUS.

I guess that is your hope, since an amendment is a lost cause.

But I doubt SCOTUS will change anything related to the 2nd Amendment. Cases heard before them concerning guns are rare.

 

[ChrisL]

Okay,you keep telling yourself that the Founding Slave Rapists wanted you to have your toys...

I will. And so will most constitutional scholars.

The point of the 2nd Amendment was to protect our country from tyranny, both inside and out.

No, it wasn't. It was to protect the right of states to maintain militias. which became a moot point when Militias were replaced by the National Guard.

The entire purpose of the Bill of rights was to protect rights of the citizens, not the rights of the states or of the federal gov't.

It's amazing how some people entirely ignore that fact.