"No fan of law enforcement"

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by DiogenesDog, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. DiogenesDog
    Offline

    DiogenesDog Zen Bonobo

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    186
    Thanks Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Wady-Peytona Sector
    Ratings:
    +21
    One of my web friends sent me this news piece. She supports liberal access to firearms and a liberal interpretation of home protection. So do I.

    Protecting Neighbor's Home Self-Defense?
    Testing "Castle Doctrine," Grand Jury To Decide If Texas Man Was Right
    To Kill Burglars



    HOUSTON (CBS) -- It will be up to a Texas grand jury to decide whether
    a man who fatally shot two men he thought were robbing his neighbor's
    home acted within the state's self-defense laws.



    Tough call. For all the wind that has passed through either end of NRA supporters and their leadership, there have been few incidences of "castle defense" that have not received a rigorous, abrasive and sometimes costly first responses leading to the death or arrest and then court appearances for the castle defender. The horror stories of no-knock entry by law enforcement into the wrong address have lead to some ugly outcomes for innocent residents and for armed residents who have shot the intruders whether LE or real bad guys. I don't know about where you live, but here by me in a metropolitan area of near 50 municipalities both large and tiny, there are ugly and questionable incidences of both plainly criminal and innocent protection shootings everyday or so. Nationally, the number would be astounding to some if they were all reported equally. Gun trauma and death are very common.

    There are levels of defense and levels of thwarting crime that demand a firearm depending on remoteness of the victim from LE and neighbors. Individual protection within the confines of the walls of the home are different from that of the edge of the physical setting on which ones castle sits and the proximity of ones dwelling from ones neighbor. I live in a neighborhood that has large lots, 6-0 foot wooden, wire or masonry fences. My lot backs on a railroad and utility easement. The street is a U-shaped street that has a north and a south entry. I know everyone on this street. We have no formal neighborhood association but we do have a mutual heads up agreement that would allow me or any other on this street to intervene in some way to protect the property of another. Some of my neighbors have firearms, some don't. I have one antique, 1912 Springfield double-barrel, twelve gauge shotgun that is broken down and stored in a locked drawer along with fresh shells. I once had numerous firearms and a variety of ammunition. I adopted a disturbed girl child and had all those arms stored in trust for me by a gun nut relative.

    Most of my neighbors have electronic alarm systems. I have chosen to feed sharp eared dogs and have a passive movement detector light and switch system that turns on lights inside and outside the house and puts on a recording of human voices and the sound of firearms being prepped for use. I maintain a strong defense line in my fences. The fences are backed by rank growing Bougainvillea (crown of thorn canes). I am prepared for just about any eventuality of human intrusion. If some Joe Crack-head is looking for something easy, he is going to pass me by. If some semi-pro burglar is looking to steal my rare book collection he is going to work for it. If LE gets a wrong address and enters my place, they might crash into a lot of noise and barking dogs with guns drawn but I have a very secure bedroom that can withstand 150 mph plus hurricane winds. Some real tough guys could make an entry with explosives but by the time that it came to that, they would have been advised that we were harmless except for some other other crative stumbling blocks. Still we would to subjected to rough handling and an assumption of guiltby LE until better minds came to straighten things out. An elderly, ill grandmother in some Chicago hell hole would probably get one round of her 38 off before she was riddled with bullets. Would the NRA mount a defense in her case? I don't think so.

    My short answer is that to be prepared for home defense, a form of deadly force may be just the thing. Any LE agency that conducts no knock entries must accept the possibility that they may lose a team member to constitutionally permissible firearm defense by the intruded-upon. A neighbor has every right to call LE to alert then to an intrusion into a neighbors house. His dealdly response to intrusion is limited to the walls of his own abode. A person who goes into his yard and flourishes a firearm is treated harshly by LE no matter the circumstances. (thus the title of this piece) Some are even shot in their own doorways when spouting the NRA catch phrases of rights. LE doesn't like guns in the hands of those not in their ranks on the scene of an incident. If you have a firearm in your hands in their presence, you are subject to the use of deadly force by them. It may not be in the law books, court rulings or the constitution but it is drilled into the heads of recruits and old time cops, the NRA be damned.

    If you shoot someone or harm them with any form of weapon, you will be treated as a common criminal until there is a ruling from your States Attorney's office and their agencies of the courts in your local community. If you shoot an intruder in your home, there is still a rigorous investigation of the circumstances. It makes no difference what the Constitution says, what the general opinion of the local community is, LE has a penchant for treating gun incidents as if they were atomic attacks.

    I will soon have a story to tell about a recent experience I had with an ill trained and steroid ingesting police officer. Aside from providing me with a new set of experiences and a first hand view of the process to write about, it left me with a less thanconfident view of the capabilities of the field components of LE.

    The man in Texas will have a long difficult time having his situation untangled. He will be subjected to closer observation by LE for the rest of his life. He is marked. The NRA be damned (by LE).

    Being smart, prepared and courteous to LE is a lot more effective than being well armed.

    I AM
     
  2. William Joyce
    Offline

    William Joyce Chemotherapy for PC

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    9,693
    Thanks Received:
    1,135
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Location:
    Caucasiastan
    Ratings:
    +1,349
    One reason we need to support firearm freedom is BECAUSE OF "law enforcement," i.e., the paid agents of our enslavement. One of these days, police will simply be able to do as they please to you and your family, the Constitution be damned. Right then, a judge will not protect you. A gun will.
     
  3. Diuretic
    Offline

    Diuretic Permanently confused

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    12,653
    Thanks Received:
    1,397
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Australia est 1836
    Ratings:
    +1,397
    Interesting point. You've described an authoritarian bordering on totalitarian state.
     
  4. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,520
    Thanks Received:
    5,898
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,930
    Read up on Randy Weaver and the actual events leading to Waco ( the Branch Davidians). These are not isolated events just better reported.
     
  5. Diuretic
    Offline

    Diuretic Permanently confused

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    12,653
    Thanks Received:
    1,397
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Australia est 1836
    Ratings:
    +1,397
    Is anyone really surprised when the state exercises its power on those it rules?

    Hah I sound like a nutter. I'm not, I just think governments need to be carefully restrained.
     
  6. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,520
    Thanks Received:
    5,898
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,930
    I fully support the Government and law Enforcement, BUT the cases talked about are NOT legal nor right. They are NOT the Government legally exersizing their power or duty. The ATF was so bad they had part of their power and authority removed and it still has not stopped them.

    Some leftoid gets arrested for breaking the law and the liberals are up in arms, some right winger gets killed by the cops for no legal reason and it is " well he deserved it" Sure thing.
     
  7. pegwinn
    Offline

    pegwinn Top of the Food Chain

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    2,549
    Thanks Received:
    329
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +329
    I guess I am lucky. Most of the cops I have met for more than a half second were decent folks who believed in what they do both in the literal and in the "spirit" or intent.

    Like every group, about ten percent don't belong in it.

    I support law abiding, mentally capable, citizens being armed to the teeth with whatever weapons they can make, buy, trade, etc.

    And, for all it's potential threats God Bless Texas where you have the right to armed resistance of an unlawful arrest. Tis in the state constitution.

    C'ya'll tomorrow or the next day give or take.

    I like the spike plants, might have to look into that.
     
  8. Diuretic
    Offline

    Diuretic Permanently confused

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    12,653
    Thanks Received:
    1,397
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Australia est 1836
    Ratings:
    +1,397
    Law enforcement is the mailed fist in the velvet glove of government. Most of the time it's pretty benign but if the state feels threatened or if it seeks to flex its muscle it uses law enforcement to do it. That's why it's absolutely important that the courts are able to curb the excesses of both executive government and law enforcement.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  9. RetiredGySgt
    Online

    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    39,520
    Thanks Received:
    5,898
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ratings:
    +8,930
    Something our courts only do AFTER death and mayhem if ever.

    In the case of Weaver the FBI got away with murdering his wife and son and then when they took him to trial on their idiotic trumped up entrapment charges they were shown the door.

    In the case of Waco, they got away with murdering over 80 Americans and the courts did nothing. The FBI conveniently lost all the evidence that proved the ATF was full of shit on the claims that started the fiasco. One of those items being a DOOR. Now explain how one loses a door? They have never proven ANY automatic weapons were found, they just say they did. No court has demanded an accounting at all. They have never proven the house was rigged to burn. And if they want to claim they have tapes to prove it, then they are admitting they KNEW before they rammed the building they would set it on fire, hardly supportive of their position at all.
     
  10. DiogenesDog
    Offline

    DiogenesDog Zen Bonobo

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Messages:
    186
    Thanks Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Wady-Peytona Sector
    Ratings:
    +21
    On the morning of Sept. 25, 2007, my daughter entered our bed room and said that the boyfriend had just slugged her and broke her phone. She had locked the doors.

    We went to the door while on the phone with 911 dispatch. The boyfriend was throwing bicycles, chairs and flower pots at the entry. He was "cracked" out and drunk. He was threatening me with bodily harm. The police arrived. They started their routine and after two hours, the boyfriend made a hostile move on the biggest cop and that was all she wrote. He went to jail. We then depressured a bit and I got back to sleep until the states attorney minions began calling for the daughter. They wanted her to appear at their office as soon as possible.

    We got the daughter up about noon and she got ready for the trip "downtown". She had not taken her medication. She was hostile and she threw a punch at me. I parried the blow and caught her wrist in one move. She defused briefly and when I released her she threw another girl punch that landed on my chest. No harm done. She then ran out the door with another phone and said that when was calling 911. I called the non-emergency dispatch center. I was on the phone with a fairly rational dispatcher for about 10 minutes. She found that there was no 911 call from daughter. We discussed if their needed to be an officer on scene. I told her that mom and daughter were heading out the door now for the states attorney office. I had a "Restricted Call Waiting" on the phone. I rang off with the dispatcher and answered a call from a road deputy who wanted directions to my home. I have my phone GPS enabled and his unit has a laptop that should have been exchanging pings with me. He became beligerent and hostile and accused me of delaying his arrival at my home because he was unable to follow my directions. When he arrived in front of my home, he raced to the door (I watched) and he pounded like he was about to do a kick open. (I swear to . . . on me mothers eyes." I opened the door, I was ordered out and was given about a 30 second grilling on "WHY? DID YOU DELAY ME? WHERE IS THE PERPETRATOR? I had nothing for the whys but I did tell him that my daughter was on her way to the SAs office. I was in cuffs and spread over the trunk of the car in the next 30 seconds. The back up officer was on his shoulder mounted tac-com set all heated up about capturing . . . my daughter and her mother.

    I was in cuffs and in the back of the car in front of my house for near two hours. The arresting deputy started the paperwork, checking and getting other information from me and his com center. That was intermixed with personal phone calls, leisurely draws on his clove cigarette. The drive to the jail was about 20 minutes and I was read my rights at the entry to the processing facility. I was there until 2:00am the next morning. I had left my keys, wallet and phone on the hall table. I have one land line number memorized. I did not know my wife's new number. I called my one landline number and discussed my situation with my elderly friends Jim and his wife. I started ringing my cell phone and about midnight my women returned and answered it. They had been with the horses all day. They brought my bail money and I was out. A week later the original officer appeared at my door. He had a three stripe Sgt. as back up. He quietly and politely collected statements all around and gave us each a victims rights book. He was quite deflated and had the appearance of one who had been the victim of an extended ass eating. Three strippers do not come as back up for laughs.

    I have followed the development of this on the County Court web site and it is a pretty thin docket item. It has died on the vine. On Friday, past, I got my bail money back from the Clerk of the Court. I am waiting now for my letter of apology, and my settlement check for my time and trouble. I am giving them another week before I play my next card.

    I now have some new first hand knowledge of the "system". I went through a shift change with it multiple head counts. I met some really interesting but troubled people in the processing center. I overheard some desperate phone calls. I do not wish to have a repeat.

    My charge? Obstruction by deception. I felt like Arlo and his tale of woe as the great Thanksgiving Day littering offender.

    I AM
     

Share This Page