New National Guard Record Forgeries????

Discussion in 'Politics' started by JIHADTHIS, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. JIHADTHIS
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    JIHADTHIS Active Member

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    I was going to add this to the current Bush/Guard records thread, but the implications of this are pretty explosive if it is true..........

    Embedded links up the wazoo!

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/007760.php

    Today's big Boston Globe story on President Bush's Air National Guard service is based on memos to file from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian: "Bid cited to boost Bush in Guard."

    The Globe story is itself based on last night's 60 Minutes report: "New questions on Bush Guard duty." The online version of the 60 Minutes story has links to the memos. Killian died in 1984; CBS states that it "consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic." Readers Tom Mortensen and Liz Mac Dougald direct us to a FreeRepublic thread post no. 47 to this effect:

    Every single one of the memos to file regarding Bush's failure to attend a physical and meet other requirements is in a proportionally spaced font, probably Palatino or Times New Roman. In 1972 people used typewriters for this sort of thing (especially in the military), and typewriters used mono-spaced fonts.

    The use of proportionally spaced fonts did not come into common use for office memos until the introduction high-end word processing systems from Xerox and Wang, and later of laser printers, word processing software, and personal computers. They were not widespread until the mid to late 90's.

    Before then, you needed typesetting equipment, and that wasn't used for personal memos to file. Even the Wang and other systems that were dominant in the mid 80's used mono-spaced fonts. I doubt the TANG had typesetting or high-end 1st generation word processing systems.

    I am saying these documents are forgeries, run through a copier for 15 generations to make them look old. This should be pursued aggressively.

    UPDATE: Thanks to all the readers who have written regarding this post. Several have pointed out that the Executive line of IBM typewriters did have proportionally spaced fonts, although no reader has found the font used in the memos to be a familiar one or thought that the an IBM Executive was likely to have been used by the National Guard in the early 1970's. Reader Monty Walls has also cited the IBM Selectric Composer. However, reader Eric Courtney adds this wrinkle:

    The "Memo To File" of August 18, 1973 also used specialized typesetting characters not used on typewriters. These include the superscript "th" in 187th, and consistent ’ (right single quote) used instead of a typewriter's generic ' (apostrophe). These are the sorts of things that typesetters did manually until the advent of smart correction in things like Microsoft Word.


    Who said dirty pool?? :laugh:
     
  2. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    So what does this mean? Simplyify it
     
  3. JIHADTHIS
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    JIHADTHIS Active Member

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    Uhhhh: That someone went through a lot of trouble to make a bunch of false records that "smear" Bush, that 60 minutes ran an anti-Bush story last night based off of obvious forgeries, that the Boston Globe is running a story based off the 60 minutes piece........

    Who's the "someone" who created the forgeries, who's idea was it, and who sanctioned the story?

    When this is exposed, do you not think it will blow up in Flipper's face? They lose huge credibility if it is proven that they are now forging documents to smear Bush..........

    Capice?
     
  4. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    so this 'forensic' analysis of the typeset and font spacing has been proven already to be a forgery? other than in a blog?
     
  5. JIHADTHIS
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    JIHADTHIS Active Member

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    I led off with:
    I was going to add this to the current Bush/Guard records thread, but the implications of this are pretty explosive if it is true..........

    IMHO it is, if that counts :banana:
     
  6. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    I would love to see the original document. It's all pretty suspicious if you ask me. Why would a retired commander keep records on ONE individual in his personal records for over 30 years? It just doesn't make sense.
     
  7. freeandfun1
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    freeandfun1 VIP Member

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    "What saddens me most is that Democrats, above all those who shared the agonies of that generation, should now be refighting the many conflicts of Vietnam in order to win the current political conflict of a Presidential primary."
    --John Kerry
    Thursday, February 27, 1992;
    (Legislative day of Thursday, January 30, 1992)
    138 Cong Rec S 2479
     
  8. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    your opinion counts, in so far as I value your opinion. But if I read the 'blog' correctly, somebody else has stated their opinions on a technical matter but it may be innaccurate, so these memos may actually be factual and legitimate?
     
  9. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    thats an intriguing thought, I'd have to wonder if this colonel kept records on any others and if NOT, then what was special about GW that prompted him to keep these?
     
  10. CSM
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    CSM Senior Member

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    Links on this page to the documents:

    http://cbs2chicago.com/rooney/sixtyminutes_story_252205036.html

    If you look at the signatures, especially the 4 May memo and the 1 Aug memo, they look different to me. Also, the initial premise of this thread may prove correct as ALL the documents use "th" except in one place ("111th" at the top of the memo and then the superscript version within the document itself, i.e.) which makes me VERY skeptical.

    The fact the the guy who found these documents is a die hard Democrat working for Kerry doesn't ease my mind either.
     

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